New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Here is a link to a sneak peak at some of the offerings from Hoyt for 2003 -- new camo, new cam system, and a few new risers:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...7566#post17566

The new "Cam and 1/2" looks like a deviation of the Darton CPS system (kinda cross between CPS and CC+). What do you guys think??
Len, have you seen this and how does it compare to CPS?

I like the trend here.

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Interesting stuff. I bet they sell a ton of them. Any idea what the ata and brace is on the Super-Tec at 330 fps?

And from the quotes, this one I found priceless-

“Hoyt’s new Cam & 1/2 Performance System is without a doubt the all-around best feeling Cam & 1/2 Performance System I have ever shot!” - Nathan Brooks

Seeing how it's new, isn't it the ONLY cam & 1/2 he's ever shot? :)

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

It's only &quot;new&quot; to Hoyt and the USA. Bernadini from Italy has their variation of them also, they call them the &quot;Turbo-cam&quot;. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

The cam and 1/2 is a sharp design, and IMHO Hoyt will do well with it. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Pinwheel 12,

I think the Bernadini system looks kind of strange -- looks like a double version of the cam used on the Dynabow. You have been calling for the &quot;hybrids&quot; to catch on for a while now and I think this will be the year for it. This type of system seems very similar to CPS, but with a little more refinement.

For specs on the bows, I think there is a downloadable XLS sheet that list them from the provided link. I downloaded it and it only took a second (not a long download for those who may fear that process), but I haven't looked at it yet.

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

I was going to, Rob, but I don't have MS Excel...

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

SuperTec

Type Limbs Cam Brace A-A IBO Mass Wt Draw# Draw Len

Target XT 2000 Spiral 5 3/4 36 330 3 lb 14 oz 30-70 23-30

Hunting XT 2000 Spiral 5 3/4 36 330 3 lb 14 oz 40-80 23-30

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Very nice stuff...The cam system intrigues me, but I suspect the doofus who named it is the same guy who thought up &quot;HavocTec&quot;..yeeesh...what is up with that..it's almost as bad as &quot;The Bow&quot; from HCA...DUH! At least Darton thought up a really cool name for their Hybrid.

At any rate I'm glad to see them doing their own thing with a hybrid system instead of sticking with what cam tech they had (which IMO, while nice shooting was oh so boring)

Reckon I'll have to have me ANOTHER Ultra or Cyber this year.

JeffB <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Rob-

Yes, I believe you are correct, 2003 will be a very exciting year. Manufacturers are realizing that John Q Public only allows about a five-year period of &quot;stagnation&quot; before they are screaming for something new, and I do feel it will be a good year for alot of manufacturers tech-wise because they have been working hard on new things. Of course, alot of them &quot;jump the gun&quot; and release product in October,(why, if the dealer show is in January?) but you won't see &quot;the full package&quot; from everyone until the AMO show. From what I understand from inside sources alot of new developments will be forthcoming. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

My wifes gonna be mad at you for showing the 2003 models<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

I'll have to stick with my current ultratec for at least a couple years. Maybe<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

&quot;Nocked,cocked & ready to rock&quot;

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

In tune with what Pinwheel was saying....

I'm VERY glad to see a MAJOR company buck the trend.

Since I first shot a Darton CPS back in 95 or so I've felt that the hybrid system would eventually be the best system. The FM system from Bowtech is another hybrid sort that is worth mentioning, though it is closer to a true singlecam than the CPS or the new Hoyt system.

At any rate I hope that we will see many more hybrids that combine the best features of both one and two cam designs.

JeffB <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

No offence to Hoyt lovers but, except for the new cams, it doesn't look like too much improvement from last year.
Actually, I'd rather have the new Martin Onza II.
It looks more rugged and interesting than the Hoyts.
Moot point though as I'm sold on Merlin and plan on staying with them.


Sag.

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

If it aint broke , why fix it?<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

&quot;Nocked,cocked & ready to rock&quot;

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Rob: No, I haven't seen the new cam yet. I'll hold any comments until I've had a chance to test it one-on-one against the competition. By competition, I mean the C/P/S 7 (new design) and hopefully the Browning Zero Cam.

I'm sure it has a lot of merit; but, side-by-side comparisons have always proved to give me the best information, IMPO.

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Len, please make a note to share this info with us. Sounds like interesting stuff!

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Well, I am excited. At least Hoyt is taking a new direction this year. Their riser design has always been somewhat unique....their limb design is top notch...all they needed to do was throw a striking new camo pattern on the bows and design a new cam system....both of which they did this year.

I will be really interested to see how these new bows feel and perform. I still want a quiet, low vibration/recoil bow for hunting.

It looks like I will be going with the Razortec this year.

Oh, and I like the names Darn It! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Here is the info reposted for ease of reference....

http://www.whitetailcentral.com/Hoyt_Specs.htm




















Edited by - PABowhntr on 10/15/2002 14:00:26

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Wasn't it Pinwheel that posted, &quot;If they keep improving the single cam they'll re-invent the twin cam.&quot; It looks like another step in that direction. I'm anxious to see these new bows though, both from Martin and Hoyt. They sound very intriguing.

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Wasn't it Pinwheel that posted, &quot;If they keep improving the single cam they'll re-invent the twin cam.&quot; It looks like another step in that direction. I'm anxious to see these new bows though, both from Martin and Hoyt. They sound very intriguing.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


I was thinking the same thing!

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Yes, it was me that stated that. And, altho some are jumping the gun, you'll be seeing more &quot;improvements&quot; from other various manufacturers in January.

2003 will be a good year for archery IMHO, seems like the &quot;5 year turning point&quot; has arrived. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Oh crystal ball, oh crystal ball...(aka Pinwheel 12)...

...What else do you see for 2003?

<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Instead of calling it a cam and 1/2 , why did'nt they call it a 3 cam or 4 cam ? Looks like my bank accounts going to shrink again <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

If information provided by the members of this board have helped you please let us know .

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Guys,

Here is a link to the ArcheyTalk thread that shows a pic from Bowhunting World of Martin's new Onza II bow.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...&threadid=1844
If you like the Hoyt Tec risers, take a look at the Onza II before deciding.
It, imo is stronger built than the Tec bows and is available with the superior 3 track FuryX cam system to elliminate cam lean, limb tilt, and uneven wear on them. Plus, uneven bushing and spacer wear.
It also features vibration dampening built in the riser.
I feel, it's somewhat superior to what Hoyt has to offer.
Merlin is going to also offer a 3 track system for 2003 and that is what I will be getting.
It will retrofit Max 2000 and Super Nova's.


Sag.

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

SAG,

Now stop pissing in all the Hoyt fan's wheaties, ok? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

While I will agree that a 3 track system is superior from an accuracy and torque (or lack thereof) standpoint.. 3 track systems are quite simply a pain in the ass for the Bowhunter. They are more difficult to load, and you run a greater risk of slicing something important if you use conventional broadheads.

For targets and 3D, yes..for hunting (which is the vast majority of the market here in the states), I don't see them ever catching on.

Re: the Onza..stronger? possibly..Uglier? most deinitely! In that respect the Onza has not changed. Now the COugar III and Scepter III are nice looking, but yikes that Onza looks like it fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>.

JeffB<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Sag.,

Now you know darn well that you can't go postin' something like that and not expect me to respond. :)

First question, How do you know that the Onza II's riser is going to be superior to the 2003 Hoyt TEC models?...especially when, I don't think, there are any production bows out there to test? And along those same lines, how would you test both to determine that one is superior to the other? Is this more of a weight issue since the Onza II's riser is going to weigh more than a comparable Hoyt TEC riser? Not to mention the fact that the Onza II's riser has one of the very characteristics that I found negative about the original Hoyt TEC riser designs...a built-in overdraw.

I respect your opinion on this issue but disagree with it. I would tend to have more faith in a company that has been continuing to refine the bridge style riser over the last six years when compared with one who has only offered two bows with this style of riser design and even then the time differences between when these two bows were introduced is substantial. Don't get me wrong though, I think very highly of Martin's quality and innovative designs. I do agree with your comments about the &quot;shoot-through&quot; cable system. Hopefully, Hoyt will offer something along these lines in the next year or two. It seems like a natural progression if one would want supreme accuracy and efficiency from the current cam systems.

Second question, you mentioned vibration dampening built into the riser. I am assuming you meant the VEM moduls. Are you saying then that the VEM modules are superior to the Sims Split Limbsavers on all of the Hoyt TEC bows?

(This oughta be a good discussion...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>)


















Edited by - PABowhntr on 10/16/2002 09:05:08

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Oh, boy, here we go! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Frank,

I think that vibration dampening in the riser that Sag is referring to is that black material found above the shelf. From what I have heard it is similar to Pearson's Vib-X technology just put in a different place in the riser. This in conjunction with the modules should sufficiently dampen any riser noise and vibration to a whisper. However, I would still put limb savers on the limbs since that is where the vibration begins.

As far as the shoot through/3 point systems go, I'm still not sure about them. I realize their benefits, but on a hunting bow I just can't see as practical. How many times I have had an opportunity to quickly nock an arrow for a second shot I can't count. I'm always focused on the game and I could just see trying to blindly thread a broadhead tipped arrow through the cables as being disasterous. I would have to work with it quite a bit before I was confident in hunting with it. For me, the increase in how forgiving the set up is and the accuracy would have to be significant for me to want to chance it, but that's just me.

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

HB,

Ofcourse, I agree with both you and Jeff when it comes to a hunting bow. I would still like it offered as an option as it would be something interesting to &quot;play with&quot;.

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

If my Hunter's Quest could be fitted with a shoot-through, I'd have one on it, that's a fact. Unfortunately in it's current configuration the shoot-through system cannot be incorprated into shorter ATA bows due to the fact that the crescents need a certain amount of travel, and on short bows this comes into peep view. But watch the horizon for better ideas down the road. (how's that, Frank? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>)

I've gotten so used to the shoot-through that it's like second nature to me, and I personally would have no problem with it in my treestand. The advantages over a conventional cableguard system far outweigh any little time needed (and it doesn't take long) to re-learn how to load a bow. Quite simple, really, you grab the arrow closer to the middle, swing the nock end over the outer cable and directly into your loop, and you're good to go. No slower than loading a conventional system once you get used to it.

No chattering, sticking slides, worn cables, cam lean, premature and uneven bushing wear, side torque, jeez I could go on all day! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> The shoot-through definately will be another &quot;given&quot; in the future, and cableguards will soon be a thing of the past.(within a few years, anyway)

As I see it in my crystal ball, anyway. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12



Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 10/16/2002 15:26:49

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Although I've sold more than a hundred of their bows in the last four years, I've never shot a Hoyt that made me want to own one personally. The company is very quality capable and the folks in Salt Lake are a pleasure to deal with, but their design history of late seems to be a bit quirky. I don't buy the &quot;bridge effect&quot; argument they use to suggest their Tec risers are stronger than other manufacturers, for one. In fact, the only risers I've ever seen bent were Hoyt's. The versa cam is the worst perimeter-weighted one cam I've worked with to date. Parker seems to have gotten the best out of that design in my view. I've also seen too much splintering in the ZR 200 limbs. North American Archery Group is the only company I've seen do split limbs consistently well from the top to bottom of their line (and even they have some solid limb options).

I was very pleased to see Hoyt go with the dual-tracked idler wheel last year. I think that was a positive feature on their 2002 line. Darton's CPS system remains the best engineered cam design I've ever seen. I'm glad to see the theory gaining wider acceptance.

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Talk about some <font size=5><font color=red>UGLY</font id=red></font id=size5> bows!!<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

My Web Page
www.geocities.com/hfpmad

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Realtree camo!?! Blecchh! I'll stick with my '02 HavocTec and it's Mossy Oak covering. Everything else looks good though, I'm planning on keeping my current bow for awhile, my next bow purchase will probably be a longer target/3D bow.

PBB

Pick a hair.....or a caruncle!!

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Well, I personnaly am a Merlin fan through and through, but I give credit to Hoyt on what they are doing. I would really like to get my hands on there new cam system and do some testing. You can read on the link now input/test from Dave Cousins (top ranked world archer)that he conducted at 60 meters (66 yards).

Sorry Sag, gotta agree with Frank IVO the Onza vs the Hoyts. Now that Couger III looks really sharp.

As far as shoot-through for hunting, I am with Pinwheel 12 on that -- the only negative is some guys will have trouble with bulky clothing getting close to the cables. I don't understand the fear of slicing the cables???? How do you currently load an arrow??? I can't imagine you thread the broadhead between the string and calbe now, so why would you do it with a split harness? I don't know about you, but I load the arrow by backing the nock end on to the string and never get the broadhead anywhere close to the cables. As a matter of fact, my single cam hunting bow has the cable split using a Merlin crescent. This takes a tremendous amount of inherent torque out of the system.

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

I am too tired to comment on some of you &quot;nay-sayers&quot; right now.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I will type something up tomorrow. <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

I know a viable method for testing riser strength between the Onza and comparable &quot;Tec&quot; bow..........hold the Hoyt in your left hand and Onza in your right. Now SLAM them together. Repeat if necessary. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Frankly I think the Onza just might win because Jeff's right......if it survived that drop through the &quot;Ugly Tree&quot; it's gotta be pretty tough.

And yeah.....Just WHO IS the guy in charge of naming Hoyts new junk? <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> I can just picture this guy by himself locked in a room with a bag of Cheeto's watching Gilligan's Island reruns and the CEO of Hoyt calls and wants his past due product names PRONTO........(said naming guy dropping his Cheeto's in a blind panic...THINK THINK!!) &quot;Uh yes sir I said Cam and a Half....that's right sir I think it's gonna be a winner!&quot;, and that new 34&quot; bow? (naming guy thinks back to his morning shaving problems)....&quot;Uhhhhh Razortec ,yeah Razortec is gonna be HOT, HOT I tell you!!&quot; <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Jeff,

Hell, all the &quot;I&quot; beam bows are ugly. That's a given, lol.

Frank,

The reason, I feel, the Onza has advantages is...
More mass in the riser and no thin sections like found in the Tec series. Don't you remember all the reports of Hoyt risers being bent in the bow press ?
It's still happening.
The current lineup doesn't look any more robust and superior than last year's bows.
Just a few degrees difference in the geometry of the risers to dupe you guys into buying a new one.
To me, the first Tec riser (Alphatec) was the best and has never been equaled.
It was hell for strong and sure wouldn't bend in a bowpress!
The new Onza reminds me quite a bit of the Alphatec.
As for the overdraw built in or not.
What difference does it really make in a extended bridged &quot;I&quot; beam riser if the shelf is extended all the way , (overdraw like the Alphatec) or shortened like the current Tec series ?
You can still shoot a longer arrow with a bridged overdraw if you wish.
The feel and balance will not, imo, be much superior from one to another but the one with the built in overdraw will be stronger and much more flex resistant.
Well, at least, the one's I've handled don't feel much different to me.
But I'm sure Hoyt would beg to differ.
As for the shoot thru being difficult to load an arrow while hunting for fear of cutting your harness with a broadhead.
I happen to hunt with a couple of PSE Mach bows and a Hoyt Superstar with cable guards.
Believe it or not, I have always loaded an arrow nock toward the string loop exactly as you would load an arrow for a shoot thru system.
Don't know why, always did it that way.
Hence, to me, how you load an arrow is a moot point.
On hindsight, I shouldn't have mentioned the Onza on a Hoyt thread. Apologies to Frank and other Hoyt fans!
Was just pointing out a few, to my mind, advantages the Onza had like the riser dampening, stiffness, and shoot thru harness for those who like &quot;I&quot; beam bows.
Of course, I already own the Ultimate &quot;I&quot; Beam Bow. LOL.
Accept no substitutes to the Ultimate &quot;I&quot; Beam. :^)
Sorry, Pinwheel. I had to borrow your current Merlin slogan. :)


Sag.

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Pinwheel 12,

I think the Bernadini system looks kind of strange -- looks like a double version of the cam used on the Dynabow. You have been calling for the &quot;hybrids&quot; to catch on for a while now and I think this will be the year for it. This type of system seems very similar to CPS, but with a little more refinement.

For specs on the bows, I think there is a downloadable XLS sheet that list them from the provided link. I downloaded it and it only took a second (not a long download for those who may fear that process), but I haven't looked at it yet.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

You weren't kidding about the quick downloads. Oh and RobVos, you don't have to pay for Excel in these situations. Just slip over to this website and you can download an xls viewer for free:

http://office.microsoft.com/download.../xlviewer.aspx

&quot;Size may not matter but it sho IS nice!&quot; [/quote]

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Well Sag,I have owned the Alphatec,Protec,Ultratec and a few standard risers from Hoyt(along with a few other bows from other companies).The Striker II would be the best single bridge bow I have shot but by far the best bow I have ever shot is the Ultratec for flat out shootability and balance in my hand and the shock is exceptionally low.Less than the Alphatec,I doubt it but it definately isn't more.The Protec was most likely the most accurate but just didn't have the feel or speed that I wanted for 3-d.

The biggest draw back for the Alphatec is the weight along with the overdraw,I can't imagine extending a rest far enough to put the rest even with or right behind the burger button hole.I am a small person and the lighter Ultratec with the absolute best grip on the market is the way to go for me.The design of the bridge is what allows the grip to be so small.Maybe even to small if you have large hands.


Something else I find very important is the fact that they are made in the USA.Since I work in an industry that is greatly affected by unfair oversea competition.I find it of great importance to buy American when possible.I am not implying that all oversea competition is unfair(in fact it is necessary for a strong economy) but their is a lot of slave labor going on and we are having to compete against it.


As far as the new cam goes,I will have to admit it seems to be just what I have been looking for.A 2 cam that when the cable stretches,it doesn't change the impact point of the arrow.That is a remarkable claim and just from looking at the pictures,it looks like that is exactly what they have done.The cable adjustment looks to be very easy to do and shouldn't need any adjustment after the initial stretch.

I personally can't wait to shoot one.

I will also add that I love the names.:)

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Matt,

When slamming two bows together to see who the winner is...
My bets are on the Accu-Riser any day. LOL
Crude and destructive way to test the structure of a bow but whatever works. Right ? :)


Sag.

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Well, I guess it is necessary to recognize our differences of opinion when it comes to characteristics that are favorable in a bow. I prefer lighter weight for easier carrying while you tend to prefer the heavier mass weight for more stability. I am not really questioning anything just stating the obvious. Personally, I feel that the switch from the ol' built-in overdraw TEC risers to the new designs was the best thing that Hoyt has done when it comes to this design. There may be some truth to the new risers bending when put in a bow press but then again I have heard of just about any riser being bent when put in a bow press...even by some skilled individuals. If you are stating that they are more prone to bend when compared to a similarly equipped &quot;normal&quot; riser then I would probably disagree with you again...respectfully ofcourse.

Now, about the only other issue that I still would discuss is that of the built-in overdraw design. Having that overdraw on the bow will obviously put the pivot point of the arrow/rest behind the grip which will magnify shooting errors. As far as I can remember Hoyt did not have an optional &quot;second rest hole&quot; drilled into the front part of the I-Beam so that you could mount the rest in a &quot;normal position&quot;. I would think that the extended arrow shelf would get in the way of this exact installation. So, one could conclude that the new TEC risers promote better accuracy for the average shooter since the use of an overdraw is optional.

Finally, if you and Matt want to bang bows together then leave the Hoyts out of it. Why don't you two slam one of those Accurisers with a Pro 38 or Patriot or something? Who is gonna come out on top then?

<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

Pinwheel and RobVos, I see your point. Having never handled the shoot through system I can only guess as to how I would load it. I was thinking that I would load it from tip through the cables and nock the arrow, but nock end through the cables would make more sense. It's definitely something I will be keeping my eye on and I'm sure as soon as Hoyt, Mathews, or BowTech picks it up their following will proclaim it as the greatest thing since Tec risers, solo cams, or blazing speed respectively.

Getting back to Hoyt's new line up, I really am anxious to check out the new cam system, but since I currently own a Hoyt Tec bow, I just don't know if I will get another. I like the weight and love the grip, but I am leary of putting it in my own press for any major work for fear of bending the riser. I hope they are able to get the new camo to dip better than the MO dips because IMO the cracking and lines in the old dip has no business being on a top of the line bow.

I do really like Martin's Cougar III and I think the Onza is kind of cool looking, but that's just me. I don't know that I will be going home to bang any of my bows together but if any of you try it please post your results.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: New 2003 Hoyts -- sneak peak
 

I understand that one CAN get used to loading the arrow quickly like anything else, but it does involve more movement, places the cables in a position that makes them more likely to get bumped and/or hit stuff in the woods or otherwise(since they are effectively as wide as the limbs), and has the potential to cause more noise when loading an arrow for me, as I shoot feathers.

I understand the benfits, but in a hutning situation I don't see where the benefit outweighs the disadvantage. Spots? yes. 3D? yes. But not shooting whitetails at 30 yards from a poplar tree.

I do have to agree that the TEC risers are not as strong as they were in their infancy, however I think the loss of the overdraw is a welcome thing.

Now here's the clincher...I personally (along with Frank Pearson) feel that the true pivot point is not at the point where you grip the bow, but at your wrist...after all that is the hinge where torque is introduced...so I don't mind an overdraw that extends no farther than the wrist (in fact I think on certain bows an arrowrest over the pivot point, in this case the wrist,shoots better than it mounted farther forward) however the earlier Tec risers extended past the wrist, a no-no in my book.

My 2 coppers...