05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

So I just stumbled into a smoking deal on an 05' Allegiance that I couldn't pass up, and even though I wasn't looking for another short ATA speed bow, I picked it up anyhow. I got it cheap enough that if I don't like it more than my Patriot, I can easily sell it to get my money back.

I am thoroughly satisfied with my Patriot for what I was intending on using it for next year, I was planning on using it for primarily hunting and maybe setting it up as a backup bow for 3D next year. My primary bow for the upcoming indoor/3D season is an 06' black marble constitution that is on order.

My main question is, the guys that traded their Patriot's in for Allegiance's, is the Allegiance really all that different, or better or worse for primarily hunting and occasional 3D? I know it's a bit faster, but this doesn't really matter to me, the Patriot is plenty fast.

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

I will be curious to see how you compare the two. I have a 03 PAtriot single cam and sometimes have myself convinced I need an Allegiance or the new Equalizer ( I only draw 26 1/2" ). Let us know what you think after shooting it for a while.

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

i just don't like the draw on those binaries. please don't shoot me anyone.

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

It's understandable, gibblet, and I was going to ask Rick a question in reference to that because the draw force curves are extremely different between the infinity and the binary cams.

Doesyour Patriot have the infinity cam, or is it a dually?

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

So has anyone drawn a allegiance or tribute with the smooth modules & if so, how do the smooth modules compare to the infinity cams draw curve?

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

That's what concerns me also. I find the draw on my 60lb Patriot is like slicing butter but am tempted by the speed of the Equalizer but it is only available with the speed cam not the smooth one. I like a nice hard wall and large valley for a hunting bow, I'm afraid these new models might be getting away from that. After all you need to get that speed somehow. AAHHHhh I should just stick with my Patriot ;)

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

Mine is an infinity cam, not the dually. I understand the draw force curves are different, I actually shot a 60lb allegiance last winter, but it was quite a while ago and I only shot it 2-3 times. It should be here Friday or Saturday, so I will get it setup ASAP and then give a report. I know it won't have as big of a valley, but that doesn't matter to me much really.

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

Although the valley is noticeably shorter, the main difference I noticed is how quickly it "ramps up" as opposed to the infinity; it's like you're instantly hitting peak draw weight instead of building up to it.

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

I think most people could get used to a bow, if given time. The positives of the allegiance are worth it. I used to be in love with my patriot duallys. The draw cycle is slower to build up and last through the cycle. The allegiance, however, hits you hard in the beginning. Why would you want to change? Level nock travel. Easier to tune. Smokin speed. Quiet as a mouse. Accurate as heck. Nothing, I mean nothing, is as accurate as a tuned dually or binary.

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

are you sure about the accuracy statement? lots of tourneys won with single cam bows. at the 'supreme' accuracy level i think its more about repeatability of the shooter.

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

I am sure!

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

well you can be sure and wrong at the same time.

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

I just shot an 06 Allegiance with the smooth draw module in it. I can't believe it!! I have an 03 Extreme VFT which I love but the smooth draw on this new bow is great. It was a 60 lb. pull and I could put it back slow with no problem.

We run them through a crono and my Extreme was 10 fps. faster but it is set at about 64 lbs. I sure don't want to trade bows but WOW that bow is smooth. Wonder how much harder the speed module pulls?

I also didn't like the pull on those new cams when they came out. They must have gotten enough feedback that they made the easy pulls. Anyone want to buy my Extreme VFT?

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

Now that you are saying I am wrong......singles were born out of the ease of tunability. Of course they won a lot of 3D tourneys.....alot of people were shooting them. If singles were so good, why cam and a half? Why now binary's? Why either of these two over a dually????They dont need as much tuning. Are you saying that a tuned single cam bow, will outshoot a tuned dual cam? I dont think so. I agree that the shooter makes the biggest difference.....but we just disagree on the single vs double thing. Single cam technology, in and of its self, is going away.

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

i'm just sayin that out of a machine they'll both put arrows in the same hole so i'm not sure how 1 is more accurate than the other. (i secretly miss my dually, i will admit that.)

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

I am not sure that Id bet the ranch on the fact that a hooter shooter would place every arrow from a single at the exact same spot. A friend of mine owned a hooter shooter and he shot my dually through it. The first three arrows robin hooded and he said hed never put a dually in that machine again...just one instance that I have seen, take it for what it is worth. But just think about it. A dually, or a binary, really does have level nock travel. End of story. When tuned, how does it get better? Which leads me to our deate...how does a single, with out level nock travel, ever get tune like a dually? Anyway.....sorry to hear that you got rid of your dual cam.

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

But, if you have no tuning issues and are satisfied, it was a good move. One thing that I love about the binary or dual cams, is that I can shoot different arrrow and head combinations out to 35 yards without changing my sites, or rest.... for example, these are the combos that I can shoot....2512,2514,2315,2314, ics 340 or 400. Most all with heads 100-125 graiins. Pretty crazy.

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

now that we have 452x, i have no problem with getting another dually, binary, or cam.5. i really had to stay on top of my dually in the past, and while it shot great, it was a lot of work to keep it perfect. and yeah, bullet holes were dreadfully easy to aquire. however i've really grown to love the draw of my patriot single cam. the next bow i'm really thinking about getting is either a martin with a shoot thru system, or a hoyt wheelie converted to a shoot thru (except for the pesky control cable. larry wise showed me how to do it). as far as the things you're talking about, which i pretty much agree with, it just seems like the next logical step. with the binaries there just isn't any way to outwit the cable slide, and it just makes sense that its a good thing to do. my patriot s/c will be my hunting bow for years to come, but for my 3-d bow i'm definately going in the direction of the above.

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

you really like patriot your single cam that much? That is great. I had actually toyed with the idea of a single about a year ago, but could not make the jump. My 03 dually, was my fist dual cam bow. Got it right when they came out. Had tons of problems with the factory string. Went to winners choice. Now, I get all cables in 452 and string in 8125. That tuning can be tough, but when they are on....

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

Watch the Allegiance while shooting. I shoot mine every day and slip up often and have had a couple of misfires. The reason is thatwhen you draw, BAMM!! most of the draw weight is up front and then a short valley to a rock hard wall. While holding and aiming, if you become too relaxed and creep forward just a hair, its GOING AND NOW. If you finger happens to be infront of the trigger, guess what, chances are that you will shoot the arrow.

In all actuality, the high let off is deceiving. If you decide to utilize it and relax and aim, the problem occurs. I guess i am still getting used to it, but i have to really keep pressure on it while aiming.

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

...and once you get used to that, you will love this bow. I actually like the fact that it wants to go even more when you decrease the let off!

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

Would you suggest that i adjust the let off? Is the letoff the same as the cam stop and wouldnt that adjust my draw length?

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

Letoff should be adjusted primarily by twisting that top cable. The draw stop peg should be used for extremely fine tuning.

It is EXTREMELY important to have an accurate scale to weigh draw weight, and holding weight when doing this, as well as a calculator to calculate letoff percentage. If you accidentaly increase letoff past 80%, you risk having the bow "lock up". This is when the cams come past the full draw position and end up stuck there, which is extremely dangerous and will almost certainly damage the bow. If you aren't comfortable with this, I would bring it to a proshop and have them check and adjust it for you. You will also probably have to increase letoff to compensate for added pressure on the cable if you have a drop away rest tied into the cable, or an aftermarket cable slide that pulls the cables over more.

RE: 05' Allegiance or 04' Patriot??
 

Looks like you already made your mind up but I will give you my veiw anyway. My first bowtech was a Pro38 dual cam loved that bow thenI bought a Patriot the year they came out I beleive 2002 and never really liked it couldn't shot it for anything, then a Pro40 dual cam loved that bow and now I have an Allegiance and I like it better than any bow I have ever owned. Smooth but heavy draw which I like does have a valley somthing the pro38 and pro40 where lacking. I think you made a good choice.