I have rarely seen more than a 2-4 point difference with fat shafts and that was only when 12's were in play.Fat shafts advantage is only the difference between the skinny shaft and fat shaft divided by 2.In most cases,this is less than a 1/32 of an inch.

For me it was an advantage staying with skinny shafts due to shooting in the open class where 45 yard shots were common and considering I was using a low poundage setup,my groups were much tighter at distance so skinny shafts were better.That being said,if I had more energy,I would definately take advantage of the fat shaft.

I absolutely agree with TFOX about fat shafts for outdoor 3D shooting. Using my X7s I might have turned a couple 290s into 295s at best (thats out of 300 counting 10s and 330 counting 11s).

Now indoor spot shooting is a whole different animal.

Look at the difference between a Maxima 3D select and a 2612 aluminum. If your shaft hits anywhere inside the 10 ring on a vegas target it will cut the X ring too. Keep in mind that I'm talking about keeping the shaft INSIDE the ten ring.... not hitting the ten ring. But you compare that to your standard size carbons that you can fit neatly between the 10 and X rings... and that can really add up.

I'm a decent 3D shooter, but I have trouble with spots. My best score is in the 280s out of 300. I tend to put a lot of pressure on myself. I would probably do better if I used a lens to be honest. I tend not to... just use the hunting set up with a fatter arrow. Works ok.... I need to get a target bow though.

What do you think TFOX 38 Pro... Pro Elite....Vantange Pro???

Vantage Elite for spots[8D]

Pro elite with spirals for 3-d[:-]

That is ,of course,if money is no object.

Hmmmmm I love to shoot both spots and 3D and hunt. So now I need 3 bows. Not sure that I want to approach the wife with that suggestion. Getting 1 more might be possible so it looks like I should make a decision between spot and 3D. I took a few minutes so it is 3D. I really don't want to be switching equipment between hunting and 3D. The bow that I have now is a hunting/working bow. For instance, I was pushing through the briars today chasing bunnies. I really wouldn't want to do that with a 3D bow. For 3D, do you use a lens and clarifier? Any sites that you recommend? I have a scott sabertooth release and can't stand the front forward design. My anchor points are all messed up. I like everything else. For the arrows, I will stick with the smaller diameter arrows based on the comments above.

Hi Again -

I still think you have a good setup for 3D go out and try it! Believe me there is allot more to 3D than the equipment! You might not like it as better than 60% is the skill to judge the target distance and adjustment for down hill and up hill all while avoiding the obstructions. It is nothing like spots where you know the distance, it is on level ground, easy for a good stance, with no obstructions, and no wind if inside.

I guess I am stumped here with your lens or clarifier! Usually, a clarifier is used alone in the peep site for those of us that are over 40 and need cheaters to read, does wonders for that halo effect around the pin. The scope lens usually requires two lenses one on the scope and the other in the peep together they offer magnification! Another trick is to use a smaller aperture peep sight! The small hole acts like a cameras lens and clears things up! Down side it is not very good in dim light, like in the woods at dust.

Best of luck with the wife!

Mike -

If I were you,leave your hunting bow a hunting bow and shoot it in the hunter class.Then set up a 3-d/indoor bow.You can shoot fat,light carbons with glue in points and short 2"-3" vanes.Get a bow like a 38 pro from Hoyt or the 7-37.Both these bows would serve you well in both arenas.Personally,I would think sticking with pins at first and staying away from the open class and learning to judge yardage would be advisable.This would put you in the MBR class which is usually the next to farthest stake.I would also suggest staying conservative on draw weight,especially with it being a spot bow as well.You should be able to shoot a 63-65# bow and get 280 fps+ and still be able to bust some spots with it.

Over the weekend I attempted my 300 round (5 spot) again and I was on my 59th arrow sitting on 37xsand scored a 4 and followed it with 3. I need someone to keep score for me because I put way to much pressure on myself to meet this goal.Oh well, I got next weekend. I am going to frame that target if it ever happens. Also,we are half way through the season on 3D and I am sittingin 1stout of 56 shooters with and without the handicap.As a team, we are in first as well. Whata rush. Got to love this sport. I did speak to someone over the weekend about the different classes and now I am understanding whyI need to start in the hunter class.I was thinking that the skill levelbetween hunter and the next wasn't that much of a leap, but I was told that it is huge. SO, it makes sense tomove to pins, try a hunter class, and then buy additional equipment and practice if I fall deep into it. Thanks for all of the help.Sun was out and so were the turkeys today, what a great thing.

You must always remember to focus on the next shot because that is the ONLY shot that matters.SCORE doesn't exist untill the shoot is over.EACH AND EVERY SHOT is a new shot and a new game.Forget score,remember shot sequence.

In 3-d,staying in the hunter class will help you to learn to judge yardage.When you put a slide bar on,you need to already know how to judge.Especially with the added distance,and I am not even talking about the difference of competition.

Shotmy highest score today in 3d. 322/360. 12 (12s), 17 (10s), 1 (8). Nowif I can pull that off on league night. Did not get down to trymy attempt at the 300 this weekend but I did go to the deer and turkey show. I picked up the sentinel and it seemed to be pretty heavy. One thing that I did notice was the huge increase in short bows.I just don't understand it. I had one for7 years and would not go back after having a 36 axle to axle. I did notice that Hoyt came out with a light bow. I picked up a few PSEs and the grip was just not me. Family was with me so I did not get a chance to pick up the mathews.