MGH_PA

Germ, you and I are alike (except you have less hair[8D]). Seriously, though, I shot only single cams as well (Ross CR334 to be exact). I did like how I was able to slowly relax and squeeze my shoulder together when I was learning back tension. I just switched to my 101st, and I actually lost 3 arrows in the first few days I was shooting because the much smaller valley that allows really NO creep like I could get away with on my single cam. I learned that I either had to learn to pull into the wall and hold it there, or go bankrupt replacing my ACCs. Like was mentioned above, the valley is adjustable with the peg to a degree, but it won't ever exhibit the same characteristics of your single cams. I've actually grown to like the solid wall, and I actually feel that, in conjunciton with my new anchor point, I'm holding much more steady (still not perfect). Give it some time and practice, and you will adjust. You just have to think about holding back into that wall early on while you're adjusting to it.

Now, where's my workout plan?

buckeye

Over all I do not agree with this statement..... In fact outside the spiral cams I have owned I have never ownend short valley hard wall bow.

I have owned many short valley bows, but none that I would call hard walled other than the spirals.

Just this guys opinion....

Belushi

As a first time bow shooter, who has a hard wall bow, I don't unerstand the difference you talk of but MGH you described to a tee the way I set up far my shots. And back tension is all I think of till the shot gets off. Like you I lost several arrows learning that one.

Ben / PA

I like it better as it forces me to have a more consistant anchor point. As soon as I drew back the first time it felt better than anything I had had before...I think the 101 has a more solid back wall than the Commander and I prefer it now.

scooterdo75

I totally agree. When you are at full draw, you are either stopped or going forward, eliminating any variance in your anchor point. I think this makes for more consistant shooting overall. I know alot of people that dont like hard walls though.

Matt/TN

buckeye I agree with the spiral assesment.


However, what do you call the Bowtech Binaries? Just curious.

buckeye

Although you quoted me incorrectly as I have owned the Spirals.....


To answer your question though.... Hard walled for sure.... Although, IMO there is plenty of valley. Especially with adjusting the draw stop.

My question is how much valley isneeded?

If you creep you had a form breakdown, no two ways about it.... It isn't the bows fault, its one's self for not executing their shot sequence.

Matt/TN

However, I agree with creeping.....I PERSONALLY don't have a problem there. I have my target bow setup with an almost NON EXISTANT valley. I would consider Binaries to have little valley. You can build a valley into one...but then you have about 99% letoff .

Just some thoughts.....I'd like to hear yours on the subject

buckeye

I have never considered Binary cams to have a short valley. In my hands Binaries IMO are a perfect blend of useable valley and no slop. To big of a valley is just useless slop in the draw force....

If people weren't shooting bows with to long of a DL you would hardly ever hear of it (creep).

Matt/TN

Which is probably indicated by the Corporate Staff


I personally have no issue shooting the binaries, or bows with little valley. Like I said, my target bow and hunting bow, both have little valley.

I guess my point is, I would consider the Binaries to have a short valley, and not think twice about it. Along with the PSE MF cam (the cam on my hunting bow). Spirals are the same way.