HELP! Setter won' t point
11-15-2003, 12:43 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 81
HELP! Setter won' t point
I am really confused and hope that somebody out there can help me. I have a 1 1/2 year old english setter. He has been on birds in the past (pigeons/bobwhites)and pointed everyone of them, but today I took him out, planted 5 pigeons and he ran over or past every one of them. I slowed him down, walked him in on them and he acted like they weren' t even there. I was told by another guy that he may just not like the pigeons anymore and I may need to use regular gamebirds. Could this be the problem? This is the first time he has been on birds in a while as we have been doing yard work (whoa, heel, etc). Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am not sure what to do next.
11-17-2003, 10:01 AM
#2
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 917
RE: HELP! Setter won' t point
I, too, have seen dogs that have lost interest in pointing pigeons but that remained reliable on wild birds, so this may indeed be the case. But there could be other factors involved. If I can get a bit more information I may be able to help:
1. Were you telling the dog to " whoa" as he came upon the birds?
2. Was he wearing an e-collar?
3. Was his yard work done with the aid of an e-collar?
4. Is his yard work complete?
5. Was he doing the bird work in the same place as the yard work?
1. Were you telling the dog to " whoa" as he came upon the birds?
2. Was he wearing an e-collar?
3. Was his yard work done with the aid of an e-collar?
4. Is his yard work complete?
5. Was he doing the bird work in the same place as the yard work?
11-17-2003, 10:07 AM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rifle, Colorado
Posts: 2,012
RE: HELP! Setter won' t point
Don' t know if this is the problem but the last springer spaniel I had was a bit of a pain at 1-1/2 to 2 y/o. She went through a little rebellion in that period after being trained so well (atleast I thought she was well trained) She snapped out of it after that though and was back to a great hunting dog.
11-17-2003, 09:19 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 81
RE: HELP! Setter won' t point
Seattle,
I hope you can help me out.
1. I did not whoa him as he came on the birds. He is not completely trained on whoa yet.
2. This was the first time he had worn the e-collar. (Is that a mistake?)
3. No, yardwork was not done with an e-collar. (not finished with the yardwork yet, we had a break in training for the entire spring and summer. Work schedule, I am in the military. Been a busy year)
4. Yardwork not yet complete.
5. Yardwork done at home, bird work at a hunting club training area.
I took him out again the following day and put out two chukars and he had no problem finding birds, but he would again only point for 4-5 seconds before going after the bird. He gets very excited when the bird flushes, the second bird when released only flew about 30 yards and the dog caught it and retrieved it to hand (again, I hope that was not a mistake to let him chase and catch the bird). The first dog I worked with almost trained himself, this is proving to be a little more work. I hope that I am not ruining him with my own inexperience. He comes from a good background so I hope he can overcome my mistakes. He is only the second dog that I have training experience with and the first was with the help of the breeder. So this is my first solo attempt. Any help from you would greatly appreciated.
I hope you can help me out.
1. I did not whoa him as he came on the birds. He is not completely trained on whoa yet.
2. This was the first time he had worn the e-collar. (Is that a mistake?)
3. No, yardwork was not done with an e-collar. (not finished with the yardwork yet, we had a break in training for the entire spring and summer. Work schedule, I am in the military. Been a busy year)
4. Yardwork not yet complete.
5. Yardwork done at home, bird work at a hunting club training area.
I took him out again the following day and put out two chukars and he had no problem finding birds, but he would again only point for 4-5 seconds before going after the bird. He gets very excited when the bird flushes, the second bird when released only flew about 30 yards and the dog caught it and retrieved it to hand (again, I hope that was not a mistake to let him chase and catch the bird). The first dog I worked with almost trained himself, this is proving to be a little more work. I hope that I am not ruining him with my own inexperience. He comes from a good background so I hope he can overcome my mistakes. He is only the second dog that I have training experience with and the first was with the help of the breeder. So this is my first solo attempt. Any help from you would greatly appreciated.
11-19-2003, 02:43 PM
#5
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 917
RE: HELP! Setter won' t point
Sorry to take so long to get back to you...I' ve been out chasing huns and chukar for four days.
Anyway, one more question: Since you worked your dog on planted birds the last time (when he pointed just fine) and when you worked him this time (when he didn' t point), was he hunted very much on wild birds?
Anyway, one more question: Since you worked your dog on planted birds the last time (when he pointed just fine) and when you worked him this time (when he didn' t point), was he hunted very much on wild birds?
11-19-2003, 08:37 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 81
RE: HELP! Setter won' t point
He has never been on wild birds. I was thinking about taking him out this weekend to see how he will react to wild pheasants. Would that be a mistake since he still needs alot of work or will it do him good to go after some birds that won' t sit still if he goes in after them?
11-20-2003, 10:16 AM
#7
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 917
RE: HELP! Setter won' t point
Wild birds are always the best teachers for young dogs...they are not forgiving of mistakes, and a dog will never catch them. Pheasants can be tricky, though. They may teach your dog to point, run, point, run, point, run. If you have any covey birds available to you, I would suggest you let him have fun knocking and chasing those around for a few trips.
This is one of my posts from a similar question from a brittany owner:
" I am just the opposite...I never teach any of my dogs the command " whoa" until they are pointing and holding wild birds for the flush. The only way to be able to do that is to get them into plenty of wild birds, let them knock and chase until they themselves figure out they can' t catch them. If they are well-bred, they start pointing, and most stop chasing birds after the flush, as well.
If you have the luxury of getting your pup into covey birds (and it doesn' t drive you crazy to not shoot until he does it right), let him knock and chase those a few times...the greater scent put out by several birds may be just what he needs to start pointing reliably. "
This is one of my posts from a similar question from a brittany owner:
" I am just the opposite...I never teach any of my dogs the command " whoa" until they are pointing and holding wild birds for the flush. The only way to be able to do that is to get them into plenty of wild birds, let them knock and chase until they themselves figure out they can' t catch them. If they are well-bred, they start pointing, and most stop chasing birds after the flush, as well.
If you have the luxury of getting your pup into covey birds (and it doesn' t drive you crazy to not shoot until he does it right), let him knock and chase those a few times...the greater scent put out by several birds may be just what he needs to start pointing reliably. "
11-20-2003, 09:11 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 81
RE: HELP! Setter won' t point
Seattle,
Thanks for the tips. Are you a breeder/trainer or just really into birddogs? Either way, I really appreciate the tips. Going to take the dog out this weekend and see if we can' t find some wild birds.
Thanks for the tips. Are you a breeder/trainer or just really into birddogs? Either way, I really appreciate the tips. Going to take the dog out this weekend and see if we can' t find some wild birds.
11-20-2003, 09:38 PM
#9
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 917
RE: HELP! Setter won' t point
ESetter1 - I breed a few litters, and train a few setters every year. Pretty small-scale " operation" which produces some real classy pups and a few started dogs. I use it to try and find the mythical perfect gun dog (at least for me). I' m getting close...very close. In fact, I think I have the young females that will put me there. Only time will tell.
Let your dog have fun on the wild birds...let him make mistakes, let him knock and chase. He' ll learn soon enough that getting too close results in no bird. He' ll also learn that chasing results in no bird. When he finally points a bird and lets you flush it, PLEASE KILL IT. I would then take out my pocket knife, cut a leg off the bird, skin it and give the fresh drumstick to him. If you do that, he' ll never forget what it is you want him to do.
Let your dog have fun on the wild birds...let him make mistakes, let him knock and chase. He' ll learn soon enough that getting too close results in no bird. He' ll also learn that chasing results in no bird. When he finally points a bird and lets you flush it, PLEASE KILL IT. I would then take out my pocket knife, cut a leg off the bird, skin it and give the fresh drumstick to him. If you do that, he' ll never forget what it is you want him to do.