hunting dogs and families.?
12-13-2015, 10:34 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: pacific north west
Posts: 28
hunting dogs and families.?
I have a question I could use some help with. I'm a young guy just getting into hunting. But the possibility of a family is on the horizon. My dogs both family pet and k9 police dogs have always been around. Hanging out in the house play etc. While I've never had an issue I'm still a little concerned about some of the breeds I'm looking into for future hunts
Pitbulls for hogs.
Also not sure what breeds would be best for big game (deer elk, bear, etc)
Now disclaimer I love pits, great dogs had them all throughout my childhood, however none were ever hunting dogs just pets, the police dogs I've had were great as well professional and perfect on the job, and loving pet at home. Ive I gotten lucky? Do I really not have much to worry about? Or will it depend on the dog? (which I suspect to a degree will be true regardless)
Pitbulls for hogs.
Also not sure what breeds would be best for big game (deer elk, bear, etc)
Now disclaimer I love pits, great dogs had them all throughout my childhood, however none were ever hunting dogs just pets, the police dogs I've had were great as well professional and perfect on the job, and loving pet at home. Ive I gotten lucky? Do I really not have much to worry about? Or will it depend on the dog? (which I suspect to a degree will be true regardless)
12-14-2015, 03:43 AM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Training is only going to overcome genetics, sometimes. Pittbulls are a collection of dominant and recessive genes/traits. The Terrier in them makes it likely they are going to latch on, hold on and shake the heck out of whatever they have bitten.
Around the beginning of the 70's somebody had the bright idea not to cull the pups that were what we call man sharp. And to actually breed for man sharp. Before around 1970 a Pitbull was pretty much a hundred percent dog sharp, in a nutshell they would walk right past you, to get to another dog. They were mostly blind to humans, human was a zero to them. Another trait is the fighting furry, they go a bit psycho and there pain sensors shut down, a hormone thing.
The breeders have screwed the breed up so badly it may never be right again.
Seriously I've had dogs my whole life and I never trust any of them a hundred percent. People sometimes make the mistake of judging Dogs by human values. Dogs in general and humans share many of the same traits and tendencies. But not all and like us Dogs have a snake brain, when reason stops and the snake brain takes over the differences between human and Dog become apparent.
Think about feeding two dogs together, they may have eaten together a hundred times. But genetics tells them to be aggressive when feeding or they are likely to go hungry. That hundred and first time they are going to fight.
IMO you never trust them a hundred percent, any dog. Learned behavior or training is never gong to be a hundred percent, there is always the chance instinct is going to take over.
When the prey drive takes over people can become food. Or just another pack member between them and food.
There are even subtler instincts at work here, dominance has to be earned. A dominant female may and is even likely to kill the pups of a lesser female and eat them. Multiple litters in a pack are rare, it takes all hands to raise one litter. Think about this hard.
Any time you have a dog in the family there is a hierarchy, it isn't always human above dog, at least in their brain.
Around the beginning of the 70's somebody had the bright idea not to cull the pups that were what we call man sharp. And to actually breed for man sharp. Before around 1970 a Pitbull was pretty much a hundred percent dog sharp, in a nutshell they would walk right past you, to get to another dog. They were mostly blind to humans, human was a zero to them. Another trait is the fighting furry, they go a bit psycho and there pain sensors shut down, a hormone thing.
The breeders have screwed the breed up so badly it may never be right again.
Seriously I've had dogs my whole life and I never trust any of them a hundred percent. People sometimes make the mistake of judging Dogs by human values. Dogs in general and humans share many of the same traits and tendencies. But not all and like us Dogs have a snake brain, when reason stops and the snake brain takes over the differences between human and Dog become apparent.
Think about feeding two dogs together, they may have eaten together a hundred times. But genetics tells them to be aggressive when feeding or they are likely to go hungry. That hundred and first time they are going to fight.
IMO you never trust them a hundred percent, any dog. Learned behavior or training is never gong to be a hundred percent, there is always the chance instinct is going to take over.
When the prey drive takes over people can become food. Or just another pack member between them and food.
There are even subtler instincts at work here, dominance has to be earned. A dominant female may and is even likely to kill the pups of a lesser female and eat them. Multiple litters in a pack are rare, it takes all hands to raise one litter. Think about this hard.
Any time you have a dog in the family there is a hierarchy, it isn't always human above dog, at least in their brain.
Last edited by MudderChuck; 12-14-2015 at 03:53 AM.
12-19-2015, 11:17 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: WI
Posts: 1,089
Pitts get a bad rap because of lazy owners, most people think about what's the popular breed to buy. They should consider whether the pup works for there lifestyle? I love Pitts also Calico, keep them trained, and it will work out.
12-20-2015, 12:17 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
I've got one now, actually one and a half. They say in the major write ups, they are people oriented dogs, which I generally find to be a crock.
I'd say 95 times out of a hundred you put the owner in a lineup, with a dozen dogs and the Bull is going to one of the dogs first, no matter what kind of noises the owner is making.
Mine is just part Staffordshire, maybe half, the rest is Beagle and Jack. He is nose dominant (beagle), strong prey drive (Jack) and fearless (staffordshire). His daughter is half Jack Russel and a born earth (burrow) dog.
You really have to pay attention to which line they are from. They may look the same, but may have very different temperaments. Both my male and his daughter lock on and refuse to let go when biting. I have to pry their jaws open.
If I was to ever get another, I'd make sure I had a long visit with both parents.
You also have to figure out what is the most important to you, the chase, the catch or a tracker. Hard to find it all in one package.
The one I have now has a strong prey drive and goes pretty much Kamikaze. He is pretty much a killer. He eats Hedge Hogs, which are spiny rodents. The inside of his mouth looks like hamburger when he is finished, which hasn't stopped him yet. He only weighs 25 pounds. His strong prey drive overrides any common sense he may have. He picked my youngest son as his master, but spends 95% of his time with me.
He killed the next door neighbors German Shepard. Grant you the Shepard was old but was twice his size. I was walking to the car with him in my arms and the Shepard came after me, not the first time and I let him go. Told the neighbor sorry, but your dog has bitten me before and I wasn't in the mode to get bitten again.
Shepards are generally people sharp, Bulls are generally dog sharp. Both may or may not have a strong prey drive, it varies.
An *old school* American Staffordshire may be a good choice, you just have to make sure of the bloodline. Mid West (farm dog) stock may be a good place to look.
I'd say 95 times out of a hundred you put the owner in a lineup, with a dozen dogs and the Bull is going to one of the dogs first, no matter what kind of noises the owner is making.
Mine is just part Staffordshire, maybe half, the rest is Beagle and Jack. He is nose dominant (beagle), strong prey drive (Jack) and fearless (staffordshire). His daughter is half Jack Russel and a born earth (burrow) dog.
You really have to pay attention to which line they are from. They may look the same, but may have very different temperaments. Both my male and his daughter lock on and refuse to let go when biting. I have to pry their jaws open.
If I was to ever get another, I'd make sure I had a long visit with both parents.
You also have to figure out what is the most important to you, the chase, the catch or a tracker. Hard to find it all in one package.
The one I have now has a strong prey drive and goes pretty much Kamikaze. He is pretty much a killer. He eats Hedge Hogs, which are spiny rodents. The inside of his mouth looks like hamburger when he is finished, which hasn't stopped him yet. He only weighs 25 pounds. His strong prey drive overrides any common sense he may have. He picked my youngest son as his master, but spends 95% of his time with me.
He killed the next door neighbors German Shepard. Grant you the Shepard was old but was twice his size. I was walking to the car with him in my arms and the Shepard came after me, not the first time and I let him go. Told the neighbor sorry, but your dog has bitten me before and I wasn't in the mode to get bitten again.
Shepards are generally people sharp, Bulls are generally dog sharp. Both may or may not have a strong prey drive, it varies.
An *old school* American Staffordshire may be a good choice, you just have to make sure of the bloodline. Mid West (farm dog) stock may be a good place to look.
