Go Back  HuntingNet.com Forums > General Hunting Forums > Sporting Dogs
Mountain feist squirrel dog. Need advice >

Mountain feist squirrel dog. Need advice

Sporting Dogs What's the best dog for what type of game? Find out what other hunters think.

Mountain feist squirrel dog. Need advice

Old 06-06-2015, 05:05 PM
  #1  
Spike
Thread Starter
 
Jdecountryboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Attala County Mississippi
Posts: 51
Default Mountain feist squirrel dog. Need advice

My dog is a male and two years and he is becoming a good dog overall i think but im working away his bad habits with a shock collar.one of my concerns is he is way too fast to hunt effectively with his nose i believe. I think this because of watching videos of other dogs work from big name kennels. I also think he should work farther away from us. My dog runs main from his ears and eyes he will often work with his nose but i feel not enough. My dog usually never goes from us more than 100 yards unless he hears a squirrel or something similar of that nature, then he becomes curious and checks it out. I really need help with this my dog has lots of potential. Even others have said. Hopefully im not the only one.
Jdecountryboy is offline  
Old 06-07-2015, 03:39 AM
  #2  
Nontypical Buck
 
MudderChuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Default

I personally think a dog that works close to his handler is a plus and not a minus. I train mine to stay within half that distance. It can make life a whole lot easier and avoid the worry of a dog that disappears for hours.

I rarely work my hound off a long leash when scent tracking. I put the long leash on him and he knows what is expected and puts his nose to the ground, he is nose dominant anyway.

I've got three Terriers now, one is sound dominant, one is nose dominant and the third is an earth dog. Two are so much alike you can hardly tell the difference (father and daughter), but they have different dominant senses. They work together and the whole is better than the parts

What kind of dog is it?

Dogs usually key on the pack leader, especially young ones.

Getting side tracked is normal. Working him (or her) on a leash may help, likely better than a shock collar. After a while on the leash they get immediate feedback, they can feel what you want. Most dogs want to please you, but the constant no, no, no (from a shock collar) can confuse them. They want to please you, so a yes, yes, yes often works better and helps avoid the internal conflicts.

A Flusher or a Lurcher works fast naturally. Nose dogs will often work in spurts, especially if there are crisscrossing fresh scent trails.

All dogs aren't created equal and trying to produce a cookie cutter robot dog is likely to have mixed results. All a dog breed does is give you an indication of the likely dominant traits, but each dog in that breed is a little different.

I had one gun dog that was nose dominant, mostly a Hound by nature, but he pointed by instinct (genetic) and was really good at it. None of his parents, brothers or sister pointed as well as he did. He was a moderate to poor retriever, I learned to live with it, it just wasn't his thing. I worked him to his pluses and dealt with shortcomings. All in all he was an outstanding dog. He also had one other oddity, he was extremely protective and was an outstanding personnel protection dog. He was born hating Foxes and would abandon all other duties to trail and kill a Fox. I've seen him wake up from a sound sleep and show his teeth and found A Fox with my binoculars, at close to five hundred yards, looking at me and him, which I found amazing. Needless to say I did a lot of Fox hunting. Point is learn what his talents are and maybe you will have to modify your hunts to fit his strong points, instead of trying to modify him to fit your hunts. Dogs are pack hunters, much like people are and the pack is a collection of talents that make the whole better than the pieces.

I've had dogs that tended to roam in loops away from me and then circle back and then run another loop. I usually labeled them stock Dogs for lack of a better name. Works out really well when you are Rabbit hunting. I had one Lurcher who would run Deer and Hogs and would slowly turn them back to me, she got really good at it. I learned to hunt her way and it worked well.

Last edited by MudderChuck; 06-07-2015 at 03:46 AM.
MudderChuck is offline  
Old 06-07-2015, 04:18 AM
  #3  
Spike
Thread Starter
 
Jdecountryboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Attala County Mississippi
Posts: 51
Default

Thanks ill have to try working with him on a leash and my dog also makes loops like you were talking about also.
Jdecountryboy is offline  
Old 06-07-2015, 06:08 AM
  #4  
Nontypical Buck
 
MudderChuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Default

Originally Posted by Jdecountryboy View Post
Thanks ill have to try working with him on a leash and my dog also makes loops like you were talking about also.
I call dogs that do that "Flankers" they usually make good stock Dogs. Dogs are basically Wolves wearing different clothes . You ever watch a wolf pack (or Yote pack) hunt? You have Wolves on the sides (Flankers) and Wolves that go up the middle (Lurchers). Basic geometry, every time the quarry changes direction the Wolf following cuts the corner, which shortens the distance and closes the gap. If they didn't pack hunt that way, they would have to follow and outlast whatever they were hunting. Most large game animals are a few miles an hour quicker than a Wolf for a reason, the quickest (or fast enough) survive. Flankers take away the speed advantage, brains, genetics and/or pack instinct makes the pack a collection of specialists. Everybody in the pack has their own job, some are quicker, some are flankers, some have a better nose etc.

Yotes are typically faster than Wolves, Foxes generally more agile. Different successful strategies, Wolf packs are a collection of talents, which make the whole better than the individuals.

Your task is to figure out what your Dog does really well and either train him to improve his shortcomings and/or you adapt to his strengths or a combination of both, you are his pack now.

My hound can follow a blood trail of minuscule blood drops, almost too small for a human eye to see, at a full run if I'd let him. I have to constantly rein him in or I'd never be able to keep up. I don't really care if he is a hit or miss retriever or not. But even with his marginal retrieving reliability he would occasionally surprise me. I shot a Goose that hit the water when it went down and then disappeared. My hound jumped in the Creek and stayed under water so long I thought he had drowned. But eventually resurfaced with that Goose. I figured the Goose had headed for the underwater weeds and somehow my Dog found him, I really don't know if they can smell underwater or not.

Point is, don't underestimate him, learn what his talents are and look for hidden talents.
MudderChuck is offline  
Old 06-07-2015, 07:08 AM
  #5  
Nontypical Buck
 
MudderChuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Default

Something I want to add, be careful of Terriers, they are generally strong willed anyway. If you lean on them to much they can get either neurotic as heck or mean as heck or both, borderline mentally ill. They are usually nervous, busy and high energy anyway.

I'd consider training him to recover (come back to you and heal) as a real achievement. Or training him to go to ground (lay down where he is at and freeze) as a very real achievement. They make two tone whistles for this.

Lurchers can make good flushers. Especially the really curious, busy ones. They often do better Hare and Pheasant Hunting than your typical Pointers or Retrievers do. They tend to flush those stay at home types who refuse to flush until you are right on top of them. A really busy Terrier can cover a lot o brush in a hurry and tend to bore right into the thickest parts. Nose isn't everything. A mixed pack of Pointer/Retrievers and Lurcher/Terriers usually works out well. At least as long as the Dogs get along OK.

If you can get a Terrier not to bite and latch on, they make decent Hog dogs. The trouble is they tend to latch on and hold on and get hurt. They usually learn to harry and not bite and hold on the hard way, if they survive the first couple of encounters.

That high shrill bark they have seems to drive game crazy and make it want to bolt, even when other dogs braking doesn't do the trick.

Last edited by MudderChuck; 06-07-2015 at 07:23 AM.
MudderChuck is offline  
Old 06-07-2015, 08:22 AM
  #6  
Spike
Thread Starter
 
Jdecountryboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Attala County Mississippi
Posts: 51
Default

Ive began working with him to come to me better and i will teach him sit soon (soon as in begin this week). Also load up. I have lots of hope for him. The way he hunts is he will make a loop of maybe 50 yards then come back and check in with us then repeat after we cover maybe 25 or so yards. He is probably one of the fastest feists ive ever seen and definitely the most hyper.
Jdecountryboy is offline  
Old 06-07-2015, 10:15 AM
  #7  
Nontypical Buck
 
MudderChuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Default

Most of the Feist I've seen are a mix of Jack Russel and/or Fox Terrier and hound. I've got one now, he is a Plummer Terrier, mix of Jack Russel, Beagle and Bull Terrier. Twenty pounds of solid muscle, with shorter legs than yours, he is nose dominant, a born tracker.

Hard to tell sometimes which traits are going to be dominant, even in Dogs that look almost identical. His daughter looks almost identical to him, but uses all of her senses and has the habit of sticking her nose into any nook, crack, crevice or hole she can find. If she can fit, she is down that hole jiffy quick.

I've got a buddy now who has a Feist, his has wire hair, but is very like your dog in most other aspects. His Dog seems to cover twice as much territory as the other dogs do and seems to be everywhere at once. A really good Hare or Rabbit dog. Also good at flushing Pheasant. I watched him kill a Doe one day. She thought she would hide and wait until everybody passed by, he happened on her and had her neck opened up in nothing flat. I was surprised a Dog that small (under 30 pounds) could kill a 40 pound Deer that quick.

It's good your dog loops and come back to check in, I'd encourage it. Many Terriers can be hard to recover (get to come back).
MudderChuck is offline  
Old 06-07-2015, 10:33 AM
  #8  
Spike
Thread Starter
 
Jdecountryboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Attala County Mississippi
Posts: 51
Default

You've helped me a lot man thank you for taking the time.
Jdecountryboy is offline  
Old 06-07-2015, 10:35 AM
  #9  
Nontypical Buck
 
MudderChuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Default

Sorry I'm so windy, I like Dogs and talking Dogs.
MudderChuck is offline  
Old 06-07-2015, 10:56 AM
  #10  
Spike
Thread Starter
 
Jdecountryboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Attala County Mississippi
Posts: 51
Default

Nothing wrong with being windy this is my first dog. Im trying to learn all that i can haha.
Jdecountryboy is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.