What do you think is the all around best sporting dog?
07-27-2010, 08:31 PM
#121
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
toby was taking a no.2.for some reason he did not move from the POO position for at least 5 minutes. i said,WHAT THE H ARE YOU DOING.just then 2 ft from him a rabbit jumped out of brush.
toby was POINTING i feel, not very good point in that position but he held it until the rabbit moved...........
toby was POINTING i feel, not very good point in that position but he held it until the rabbit moved...........
07-27-2010, 11:58 PM
#122
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
Posts: 860
I believe there are labs that point but as being a separate breed, to that I'm on the fence. Firstly, it would have to be instinctive and intense. Paul Long once wrote when a dog is on point, it is in a daze. It seems true as I've tested it with my dog by grabbing her butt (above the tail!) and trying to push her forward. She won't move.
Instinctive, because sometimes a trait pops up (in setters) which haven't been used in three hundred years; 'setting' for someone to throw a net over them.
Secondly, unless someone shows me hard facts from a study as to the precentages then alot of what people are saying is hearsay, good or bad. Take a pointing breed (hunting not show type), the precent of the litter pointing is very high. The few that don't point is going to be the exception, not the rule. If pointing lab litters can produce the same percentages, then it would be worthy of calling it a separate breed. Today, I hear too many stories of one or two labs that will point (and I don't doubt it), but one or two don't make a breed. If they can produce consistant number close to what pointing breed breeders then you know its been incorporated into the gene pool.
Instinctive, because sometimes a trait pops up (in setters) which haven't been used in three hundred years; 'setting' for someone to throw a net over them.
Secondly, unless someone shows me hard facts from a study as to the precentages then alot of what people are saying is hearsay, good or bad. Take a pointing breed (hunting not show type), the precent of the litter pointing is very high. The few that don't point is going to be the exception, not the rule. If pointing lab litters can produce the same percentages, then it would be worthy of calling it a separate breed. Today, I hear too many stories of one or two labs that will point (and I don't doubt it), but one or two don't make a breed. If they can produce consistant number close to what pointing breed breeders then you know its been incorporated into the gene pool.
07-28-2010, 08:11 AM
#123
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
toby always flushed for me. now all of sudden he STANDS ,this is what i was told he does.he STANDS for as long as 13 minutes, i timed him.i was told toby is not POINTING.
its neat that he does this.
i wish i had camera when he was taking a no.2 and STANDING in no.2 position for 5 minutes with rabbit.he would have held that position longer but i moved the rabbit when i said,TOBY WHAT H ARE YOU DOING.
sometimes toby will hold his rear leg up in air for 2 minutes or longer while STANDING ,then front leg ,then rear leg .
he also crawls to stalk, i seen him crawl 20ft that stand up and HOLD that position .he is stiff as h when he does this.looks like he is frozen solid.
i have cars stop all the time and take tobys picture.THEY SAID THEY NEVER SAW DOG DO THIS.
yet in woods, he does not do it, only at home.
its neat that he does this.
i wish i had camera when he was taking a no.2 and STANDING in no.2 position for 5 minutes with rabbit.he would have held that position longer but i moved the rabbit when i said,TOBY WHAT H ARE YOU DOING.
sometimes toby will hold his rear leg up in air for 2 minutes or longer while STANDING ,then front leg ,then rear leg .
he also crawls to stalk, i seen him crawl 20ft that stand up and HOLD that position .he is stiff as h when he does this.looks like he is frozen solid.
i have cars stop all the time and take tobys picture.THEY SAID THEY NEVER SAW DOG DO THIS.
yet in woods, he does not do it, only at home.
07-30-2010, 05:39 AM
#124
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
Posts: 860
Looks like Toby is play hunting. Dogs will know when it is time for serious hunting. When I'm out hunting, about an hour into it (when its slowing down), I let my dog go out and play hunt shorebirds. She enjoys it alot and it gives us time for a break. She will point shorebirds and react when they start to run.
Sometimes she'll run in a field others have already walked, and they'll search for the birds she's pointing. Kind of funny to watch; imagine walking in field and right behind you a dog comes bursting out from nowhere and starts pointing!
After breaktime (15-20 mins), I'll call my dog and she will start hunting again ignoring the shorebirds. In the afternoon, when hunting becomes hard (entire field has been covered by hunters), she'll mess around with field mice.
Sometimes she'll run in a field others have already walked, and they'll search for the birds she's pointing. Kind of funny to watch; imagine walking in field and right behind you a dog comes bursting out from nowhere and starts pointing!
After breaktime (15-20 mins), I'll call my dog and she will start hunting again ignoring the shorebirds. In the afternoon, when hunting becomes hard (entire field has been covered by hunters), she'll mess around with field mice.
07-30-2010, 06:58 AM
#125
Spike
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 22
Pointing labs do not claim to be a seperate breed, just a strain within the breed, no different then yellows and chocolates. Just a varience within the breed. As far as being able to reproduce it, my dog just sired a litter with nine in it. I will take some quail over at seven weeks and let you know what happpens, and I hope to keep in contact with the owners. I know the last litter, the only people (6 out of the 10) pups that I was able to keep in contact with, all pointed..... I will be disappointed if they don't all point.
07-30-2010, 07:19 AM
#126
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
like last night .toby slowly stalked the bear in my bird feeder.he would take 2 steps SLOWLY then hold his rear leg in air and slowly set it down,then the front one.then stop and hold stiff,so stiff he looks like rock.he will hold that for say 10 minutes then take another step or 2 ,that may take 5 minutes to do that.then lay on his stomach IF HE THINKS THE BEAR SEES HIM.then up and slowly STALK again foot in air then stop and stand for 10 minutes if bear stays.if the bear attempts to leave,TOBY WILL BOUNCE OVER HIS BACK MAKING SURE HIS REAR TOES DIGS INTO THE BEARS BACK.
same why he stalks rabbits/groundhogs,large cats.
when toby gets to say 5 ft of anything other than bear,HE WILL HOLD LIKE ROCK AND SLOWLY TURN HIS HEAD TO ME AND THEN SLOWLY TURN IT BACK TO WHATEVER HE IS STANDING.
I HAVE TO SAY,get em if i want toby to flush it or if it moves, toby will move in and flush it after i am standing next to him.
i wish he did that on grouse so i could get there quicker to get shot.after leaves come off toby flushes grouse at 25 yds and that is hard shot,you have to be ready but its fun too.
same why he stalks rabbits/groundhogs,large cats.
when toby gets to say 5 ft of anything other than bear,HE WILL HOLD LIKE ROCK AND SLOWLY TURN HIS HEAD TO ME AND THEN SLOWLY TURN IT BACK TO WHATEVER HE IS STANDING.
I HAVE TO SAY,get em if i want toby to flush it or if it moves, toby will move in and flush it after i am standing next to him.
i wish he did that on grouse so i could get there quicker to get shot.after leaves come off toby flushes grouse at 25 yds and that is hard shot,you have to be ready but its fun too.
07-30-2010, 07:04 PM
#127
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Central NE
Posts: 167
My lab/gsp is the best dog i'll ever own she has over 100 ducks 2 her name, 350 pheasants and grouse, countless doves, trailed 15 deer, and over 500 coons 2 her name, she puts my redbone 2 shame coon hunting, and she is the most loyal well behaved and friendliest dog around, she knows countless tricks, including getting beer from the fridge, and she protects the neighborhood. and last winter her and my redbone even treed a couple bobcats 4 us. but she's 8 and her hard hunting days are almost over she is definately showing signs of being worked hard. even though she wont be able 2 hunt birds all day and coons all night 4 days on end like she used 2. she will still be my best friend until the day she dies
07-30-2010, 07:18 PM
#128
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: PA.
Posts: 5,195
My lab/gsp is the best dog i'll ever own she has over 100 ducks 2 her name, 350 pheasants and grouse, countless doves, trailed 15 deer, and over 500 coons 2 her name, she puts my redbone 2 shame coon hunting, and she is the most loyal well behaved and friendliest dog around, she knows countless tricks, including getting beer from the fridge, and she protects the neighborhood. and last winter her and my redbone even treed a couple bobcats 4 us. but she's 8 and her hard hunting days are almost over she is definately showing signs of being worked hard. even though she wont be able 2 hunt birds all day and coons all night 4 days on end like she used 2. she will still be my best friend until the day she dies
there are breedrrs raising lab/gsp mix now trying to get pointing instinct in a lab.
07-31-2010, 05:07 AM
#129
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
Posts: 860
Pointing labs do not claim to be a seperate breed, just a strain within the breed, no different then yellows and chocolates. Just a varience within the breed. As far as being able to reproduce it, my dog just sired a litter with nine in it. I will take some quail over at seven weeks and let you know what happpens, and I hope to keep in contact with the owners. I know the last litter, the only people (6 out of the 10) pups that I was able to keep in contact with, all pointed..... I will be disappointed if they don't all point.
By having a separate registry, breeders can control the what aspects they want to see in the breed. If one of the six owners decides to breed a dog to a non-pointing lab, then gives up a pup from that litter, it has a very good chance it won't point or half heartly points. Then that owner tries to breed back into the pointing lab gene pool...
