this is why i did not play with sticks with toby.i did not want him retrieving a stick during hunting.same with old sneakers at home.
it is kind of neat a dog that hunts antlers.
has to have nose for that, for sure.
just today i hid a grouse wing about 300 yds from house.it took toby about 2 minutes to find it.he ran fast with his nose to ground right to wing.

topic was all around dog, i like LAB .but i feel there are better upland dog for grouse,SETTER is great one but is not my pick for best all around dog.
with price of food/pills/vet bills/injurys etc its hard for most to have 2 dogs.
if so i would pick following
lab/gsp
lab/setter
lab/brittany
but 1 dog.it is LAB..........

definately a lab. The only downer would be the size for an indoor dog and the shedding during the hotter months. If you have it house trained well and keep it brushed out during the warmer months a lab would be the way to go.

Actually my mistake and I had to go back and read the post again.

Phil I think your missing the point ( no pun intended) of this thread, all you keep talking about is bird hunting, But this thread is about the most versitale sporting breed, not which breed is the best for hunting birds only.

I must be mistaken because the thread actually read what is the best all around sporting dog, does it not? So I would have to say perhaps something else might be a little haywire here. None the less do not argue with me about the noses of different dogs. Antler hunting may be a sport to some while others it is not.

hound good with kids and dont jump around when you give them there shots. I had one a walker that had a tumor that was bigger than a softball just in front of her back leg and they didnt give her any medicine just let her stand there and worked on her.

First I didnt argue with you! I simply asked you why if Irish Setters and other sporting breeds have a superior sense of smell to the lab, why is the lab the best dog to use for hunting antlers?

I would also like to ask you if Irish Setters have a superior sense of smell why dont search and rescue teams use them instead of labs?

"""""""""""""""""Olfactory Roles for Dogs
Search and rescue (SAR) work is one of the most widely recognized and admired uses for dogs’ phenomenal sense of smell. According to the National Association for Search and Research, requirements for the SAR dog include trainability, agility, endurance and the ability to get along with other dogs and people. SAR dogs are usually larger working and sporting breeds, such as German Shepherd Dogs, Dobermans, Rottweilers, Golden Retrievers, Giant Schnauzers and Labrador Retrievers""""""""""""""

Ok so your saying when my lab and myself are in my blind and he just lays by my feet until I shoot a goose and then he runs out and finds it in a small area of a cut field and retrieves it for me that he is participating in the hunt? (heck it would be just as easy for me to get off my butt and walk over to the bird and retrieve it myself) But when I have him searching thru the thickest cover all day long (just like if we were grouse hunting) for antlers that he is not participating in the hunt? Pike

I agree with the inherent pointing gene but EVERY predator will do some form of pointing though it is far from what we with pointing breeds consider acceptable. All wild dogs especially those hunting in packs will lock up prior to attempting to kill their prey. This characteristic is what made it possible for the "pointing" lab to be created over the very recent years of the labrador retreiving breed. The Lab is a retreiver/ flusher by the AKC description. This predator characteristic has recently been enhanced by man to become what it is today. The original pointing dogs date back to the 12th century and it was by crossbreeding those original breeds thought to be from spain that we now have all pointing breeds which the lab has no clear link to and there would be absolutely no reason for it. That is why the percentage of these labs that actually point per litter are not the same as those of true pointing breeds.
My Norwegian Elkhound is more a pointing dog in it's method of hunting than any of the retrievers are being that thousands of years ago they tracked moose and held them in one location while signalling to the hunter they located the animal they were trained to hunt. So for arguments sake... if I "enhance/train" these traits in my elkhound to the level that she points birds would it be realistic to try to sell her pups as pointing elkhounds??? This is exactly how your "Pointing Labs" came about.
The real truth is that pointing gene in your dog is actually a genetic defect in it's bloodline that has been manipulated to create something the original labrador retreiver was never supposed to be and was actually frowned upon until just recently from the 1970's on.
I would prefer to have a lab that pointed rather than just flush. I think it is neat that a few labs actually point but I believe in preserving the characteristics of what the dog was originally bred for. If you breed the flushing out of a lab you might as well cross breed it too while you're at it, after all what's the point in preserving it's pedigree if you don't preserve it's purpose for being created in the first place.

THERE IS BREEDER DOING JUST THAT,HE IS BREEDING lab/gsp.

Yeah, I heard of people doing this. They are attempting to create a dog that is the best of both worlds while destroying what has taken centuries to create in the pointing breed and generations in the lab.

Hey Mustad and other pointing lab haters! Check out your past pointing dog journal or retriever journal (Magazine) I want to say the May issue but not exactly sure. I don't have it in front of me now. But they had a great article on Pointing labs. Wow a pointing magazine with a article on pointing labs. I guess that proves there is such a thing. Oh i sold a pointing lab pup to a gentleman who ran it in a members only timed hunt event at his club 4 birds in 6 min. to take first place against 9 GSP'S. which to of this dogs are used as guide dogs. It wasn't a big event I know but the lab was only 8 months old also.
There was no whoa training on this dog! only basic OB and intro to gun and bird. HMM interesting! Every breed of hunting dogs has its place in the hunting game! And we have to remember there will never be a perfect dog!