chessie or lab?
 

i am planning on getting a dog in the near future and i have been doing a little research online. so far i have narrowed my choice to two dogs, a lab or a chessie. i was wondering which dog would be better for pheasant, duck, and goose hunting in mid minnesota where the winters get pretty chilly.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

I have owned several labs but my friend has a chessie and it awsome. They have an extra layer of fat and are strong hunters. Each are great dogs, buts chessies should have a bit more endurance. Good luck.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

i would think about where your are hunting. I think for trainability you are going to have a tough time beating a Lab, but if you are where i live, you might want to think about a chessy.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

How experienced are you in training a retriever?



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RE: chessie or lab?
 

If I had to choose I would choose a Ches. I like the way they look at you. You earn their respect, the dog will run through hell and back for you. Labs are much easier to train. If you have limited training experience then the Lab is the choice. Most training books and tapes are based on Lab temperment. You have to adaptto the Ches temperment. The retriever dog games are Lab based also. The reason: 150,000 Labs registered a year, 3500 Chesapeke Bay Retrievers. You now have the final reason I would have a Ches, not everyone has one.

Doc George

RE: chessie or lab?
 

Be VERY VERY careful when it comes into looking at OFA Hipcertifications in the Chessies ancestors.
Chessies have a higher rate of Hip Dysplasia than any other breed.



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RE: chessie or lab?
 

Doc,
I have to respectfully disagree with you on the statement regarding hip dysplasia. I admit I'm biased as I raise Chesapeakes, but according to OFA statistics Chesapeakes do not have the highest rate of hip dysplasia. That"distinction"goes to Bulldogs at a whopping 73%.

Statistics can be very misleading also. OFA shows that they have evaluated 176,444 Labs and 12% were dysplastic. They've evaluated 10,465 Chessies and 21.4% were dysplastic. What would the percentages be if the numbers were swapped (if they'd evaluated 176,444 Chessies and only 10,465 Labs)? Who knows? It could prove you are absolutely correct, but it could also be just the opposite.

The other thing with hip x-rays is that only those that people feel will pass OFA are sent in. If a vet does an x-ray and it's obvious a dog has bad hips, people will not send them to OFA. Another factor to consider is how many people ever even have a dog's hips checked? The only people I know of who do it are breeders (reputable breeders, that is) or people who have a dog that is having problems running, jumping, etc. In reality a very small percentage of dogs within any breed are ever evaluated by OFA.

What is most important, regardless of what breed a person is looking at, is to look closely at the dogs in a pup's pedigree. You can go to the OFA website and look up every dog listed. I have pedigrees in front of my at this very moment of a Chesapeake sire and dam that I'm looking at to get a pup from and every dog in each pedigree going back 4 generations has OFA hip certifications.......that'sthe last 30 dogs in this pups pedigree that all have sound hips....every one. You will find this same thing with any reputable breeder, Chessie, Lab, or otherwise.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

Deer Beer,
Either breed will do what you are wanting. The key is to find a reputable breeder. Labs are a dime a dozen........but good Labs are not. Everybody and their brother is breeding Labs these days. I can look in the newspaper any day of the week and find a litter of Labs (usually several) and the "Free" column always has people wanting to give away Labs. So, be very careful. Not very many well established, reputable Lab breeders advertise in local newspapers....a few do, but most donot. Many will have a waiting list for pups.

You are going to pay for a well bred Lab or Chessie. It costs a lot of money to breed dogs and to do it right. OFA and CERF certifications cost money, say nothing about vet bills, equipment, dog food, training equipment, etc. I can't put a dollar figure on a pup as it varies a lot, but generally speaking a well bred Chessie or Lab is going to cost you between $500 and $1,000. Some are even more.

The differences between the two? Labs have the reputation for being an easy dog to train. Pros love them for that reason. Chessies develop slower....they really don't mature until they are between 2 and 3 years of age.The Chessie coat allows it to withstand very cold temperatures, but Labs have a good coat too.....not as dense as a Chessies, but close. Many negative things have been written about the Chessie temperament and most are not true. I've read that it "take a 2X4 to train a Chessie". Nothing could be further from the truth....it takes patience and a gentle hand to train a Chessie. If you treat a Chessie roughly, he'll quit on you. You will notice that many, many Chessie breeders are women......I believe that is because women tend to be gentler and more patient than a lot of men.
It will be easier for you to find a well-bred Lab than a well-bred Chessie......there are more of them around. Just take your time and do your homework. Chances are you'll end up with a great pup regardless of which breed you decide on if you find the right breeder.

Good Luck!

RE: chessie or lab?
 

Ypu are correct -- I meant to say of "the retriever breeds" (not of all breeds).



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RE: chessie or lab?
 

Doc E
i have trained two labs so far. i am only 18 so im not the most experienced hunter but i trained the two dogs ive hunted with prior to the one im planning on getting. the reason i dont just go get a lab today is because i have a few friends with cheesies and they are just as good as any lab ive hunted with.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

Sounds like you're wanting to try a Chessie, if my esp is working right. :)

I dont know where you live, but just be careful in your search. If you have any questions, drop me an e-mail.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

i live in central minnesota where the season is fairly long and brutal. the season starts with temps in the mid 40's to mid 60's and ends with temps from below zero to the mid 40's.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

IM A BLACK LAB MAN,,,GOOD TEMPPERMENT WITH EVERYONE INCLUDING KIDS IF THAT MATTERS WITH YOU.CHESSIES ARE OK ,LITTLE AGGRESSIVE MOST OF THE TIME ,THERE WHAT YOU CALL A ONE MAN DOG .THEY WERE ORIGINALY BRED TO HUNT AND GAURD THE BOATS OVER NIGHT IN THE MARKET HUNTING DAYS.THERE KNOWN FOR BITING TRAINERS AND KIDS ANYBODY ELSE THATS AROUND WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE BITING.NOW SOME OF YOU MAY HAVE A GREAT NICE CHESSIE THATS GOOD .THE OTHER 95 PERCENT SHOULD BE USED FOR POLICE DOGS AND GAURD DOGS AND NEVER IN THE SAME SENTENCE WITH OUR LABS..PS I HAD ONE OF OUR TRAINERS PULLED TO THE GROUND BY A BIG CHESSIE AND CHEWED UP BAD BEFORE WE COULD GET HIM OFF,,I WAS AT A SANCTIONED FIELDTRIAL HUNT WHEN A BIB CHESSIE PULLED A 8 YEAR OLD BOY OFF HIS BIKE AND SEVERLY CHEWED HIM UP,AND THE KID LIVED THERE.THE DOG WAS JUST THERE TO RUN THE COURSE THAT DAY,ITS JUST TOO MUCH RISK ENVOLVED IN OWNING A DOG LIKE THAT.THERE ARE ONLY A COUPLE BREEDS THAT DO ALL THE REPORTED ATTACKS AND THIS IS ONE OF THEM.DONT MEAN TO HURT ANY FEELINGS OUT THERE ,,,MY 2 CENTS

RE: chessie or lab?
 

In reply to Swamp rooster. I raised labs for about 30 years and will always have a soft place in my heart for them but had to reply to sime false info that you are diseminating. Most labs are very accomodating loving dogs but they are not all that way. I have seen them turn on handlers and others also. The popularity of labs I believe has now become a hindrance to the breed. Too many indiscriminate backyard breeders are just throwing a couple of "black dogs" together and trying to cut a fat hog with the hype of labs are best. I had a chessie about 50 years ago and he was a tough ornery hombre. Since I have quit raising labs myself I had two that I paid good money for and neither had a coat that will take the weather I hunt inso I cut my losses and dumped both for pets and got a Chessie. The first that I had a male was easy to train and go od at breaking ice without a life preserver that I see so often on labs nowadays. Due to a health problem I had to put him down. I now have a little Chessie bitch (90lbs) and she has the best nose I have ever seen on a retriever and she is as sweet and gentle as any laqb I ever had. The point of all this is don't knock another breed unless you have personal experience with breed and not just with one dog. Sorry I am a little long winded but I just wanted to clear this up a bit. My Chessie just spent the last two days breaking ice and retrieved 30 ducks and 6 geese was coated with ice most of the days and when my little grand kids are over later today they will be hugging and playing with her also

RE: chessie or lab?
 

Believe it or not, the Labrador is #1 on the list of dog bites. Other dogs are higher up on the list as far as severity of the injuries, but as far as the total number of dog bites reported, Labs are #1.



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RE: chessie or lab?
 

PAY ATTENTION LIKE I SAID IN LINE 4 ALL CHESSIES ARE NOT BAD ,AND IF I DIDNT HAVE EXSPERENCE I WOULDNT OF WROTE THAT **** AND NOTHING WAS SAID ABOUT BREAKIN ICE OR TAKING THE COLD,SO PAY ATTENTION FELLA.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

I HAVE NEVER IN ALL MY YEARS OF TALKING DOGS OR DEALING WITH DOGS HEARD SOMETHING SO CRAZY IN ALL MY LIFE AS TO WHAT YOU JUST SAID,IF THAT WAS THE CASE DO THINK I WOULD OF WASTED MY TIME POSTING THAT .. THE LAB ON A BITE LIST YOU WILL NEVER GET ME OR ANYONE TO BELIEVE THAT S###..GO TO SOME TRIALS AS YOU WALK BY ALL THE TRUCKS WITH LABS AND CHESSIES RUN YOUR HAND UP IN THE BOX WITH THEM AND SEE WHAT PERCENTAGE OF DOG GIVES YOU THE MOST STITCHES THEN YOULL PROBABLY COME OUT A SMARTER FELLA. HEY THAT WOULD BE A GOOD CURE FOR FIXIN STUPID..

RE: chessie or lab?
 

SwampRooster,
Do some real research buddy -- touching vehicles at FTs is not real scientific. ( I mean, how many different breeds are normally present at Trials or Tests?)
The top two breeds in orderin fatal attacks are the Pit Bull and Rottie.
The top five breeds in order forsevere injuries are Pit Bulls, Rotties, German Shep, Huskies and Alaskan Malamutes.
The top five breeds for total number of dog bites, in orderare Labradors, German Sheps, Rotties, Chow Chow and Akita.
Do you notice that Chessies are not on any of those lists?
I'm a Lab guy too, but facts are facts.

And another piece of advice.................Look down at the lower left side of your keyboard --------- see the key caled "Caps Lock"? Give it a tap will ya -- and quit shouting.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

your giving advice on paying attention.where in my first post did i say anything about pitbulls, rotts, shepherds or chows.we were talking retrievers..The nature of retrievers thats all,if you want to talk rotts and pitts go elsewhere.the reason you say chessies arent on your list ,i cant answer that ..the guy was wanting a retriever and i gave him my honest oppinion about the two.But hunting with diffrerent people with kids everyday .with crowded boat ramps and boat loads of hunters, the risk factor is high the chessie likes his space and a big percentage of them dont like crowded places and are good at making room....And sure they can take the cold and hunt like nobodys buisness.they can be fine hunters and chompers.The lab is the most popular dog in the nation or not world and its no way there on any list for biteing.. AND AS FAR AS HOW I WANT TO WRITE THIS AND HOW BIG I WANT EM IS MY BUSINESS AND MAYBE SOMEONE NEEDS TO SHOUT AT A FOOL SOMETIME...BUDDY ,,,AND YOUR QOUTE AT THE BOTTOM IS JUST RIGHT FOR YOU..THE FOREVER PART THAT IS ..AND IF YOU REALLY ARE A LAB GUY PLEASE QUIT COMPARING OR BREED TO ROTTS AND PITTS THAT BRINGS OUT THE FIRST PART OF YOUR QUOTE IGNORANT,,

RE: chessie or lab?
 

People get themselves into trouble whenever generalizations are tossed around. You just can't say Chessies are aggressive and Labs aren't, or vice versa. All breeds have the good and bad and it comes down to a well bred dog that is socialized and trained properly. A Chessie from the right breeding that is socialized and trained properly is no more aggressive than a Lab, German Shorthair, Golden, etc. that is from top lines and socialized and trained correctly.

We tend to base our opinions on a couple of incidents that we either see or hear about and after that use those experiences to judge all dogs within a breed. That and we perpetuate things that we've read without actually seeing those things first hand to verify if what we read is true or not. We are all guilty of it, and it's wrong. I breed Chessies and I keep in touch with the people who get pups from me. I have yet to have one person come back and say their dog is aggressive, possessive, or anything close to that. Not one, but I'm a stickler for temperament. I absolutely will not own an ill tempered dog...I won't have one on my place.

Golden Retrievers have the reputation for having wonderful temperaments, but I've seen two that should have been put down. They were the meanest, ugliest dogs you'd ever want to see. There is a Lab in our town right now that has bitten 3 kids.....don't ask me why the dog is still alive......there's a huge controversy going on over it.There's another lab that a local farmer owns thatI would never turn my back on.....if I stop to visit and the dog is loose, I won't get out of my truck until they come out and have control of him. Now, based on what I've seen I could easily say that Goldens and Labs have some temperament problems, but I've been in this game long enough to know different.

Chastise an individual dog within any breed if you want to, but to chastise an entire breed based on a few personal experiences is rediculous.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

Doc and Swamp, I think you both are a little over the edge with your claims.

Doc, how many labs do you think there are in this country and how many chessies do you think there are? Nobody knows the real numbers. I am sure the AKC has some numbers of dogs that are registered with them, but those numbers mean nothing. The difference in numbers is staggering I am sure.

Swamp, You are greatly overstating the aggressiveness of the Chessies. To say 95% should be police dogs, come on. Besides, everyone knows the Chessies aren't smart enough to be police dogs.:D

tatonka makes some good points.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

1. I merely replied to your post. In any regard, Labs bite more people than Chessies do. If you did some real research, you could "answer that".

2. Please do a websearch..........You will find out that you are ignorant on the subject. Ignorance can be cured (with study) but stupid is forever (can't learn).

3. Then YOU should do some study and get your facts straight.



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RE: chessie or lab?
 

1. I can back up my statements with facts...........I'll guarantee you that Swamp can't.

2. I can only go by what is published (in peer reviewed research journals).

3. Swamp don't know nuthin.


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RE: chessie or lab?
 

All I can say is that if you went to my dog box and ran your hand inside with my dogs you probably needsomepsychotropic drug intervention for doing it in the first place:D:D.

Seriously, any dog can bite, lab or otherwise. Just like any horse can buck, bite, or kick.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

Doc, your statement may very well be fact, but that in itself doesn't mean a whole lot.

In a quick search, I found that in 2004, the Lab was the most popular breed, with 146,692 registered with the AKC. Golden Retriever was second with 52,550. At number 10 was Chihuahua with 24,850. I assume Chessies are way down the list from that.

These are only dogs that were registered. Factor in all the ones that aren't and the mixes with labs and it is no wonder that they have more bites per year than any other dog.

Can't we do without calling people stupid?

RE: chessie or lab?
 

NO IVE SEEN SOME VERY SMART CHESSIES WE NEVER DISCUSSED THERE SENCE LIKE ANY BREED YOU HAVE SOME DUMB ONES AND SMART ONES. JUST TEMPERMENT THATS ALL.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

NO WEBSEARCH,DONE A VET SEARCH ASK 10 VETS TO PUT TOP RETRIEVER BREEDS ON A LIST .OK THEN ASK HIM WHICH ONE IS MOST LIKELY TO HAVE AN AGGRESSIVE TRAIT.SO YOU KNOW WHICH ONE HE PICKED RIGHT..RESEARCH YOUR CHESSIES AND YOULL FIND THEY WERE BRED FOR RETRIEVEING IN ROUGH WATER VERY VERY FRIDGID CONDITIONS SO THEY HAD TO BE TOUGH AS BARN NAILS NOT AFRAID TO RISK ANYTHING TO MAKE A RETRIEVE,THIS WAS THE MARKET HUNTING DAYS WHERE PEOPLE MADE A LIVING SELLING DUCKS AND GEESE.THERE FOR WHEN THEY LEFT THE BOATS AT NIGHT THESE DOGS HAD TO STAY AND GAURD THE BIRDS ..THE ONLY WAY YOU WERE GETING THOSE BIRDS WAS TO KILL THE DOG.ALTHOUGHT THIS WAS MANY GENERATIONS BACK WE CAN STILL SEE THIS TRAIT IN SOME GENERATIONS OF CHESSIES ..IT WAS LESS THAN 5000 CHESSIE PUPS REG IN ANY GIVEIN YEAR AND THE LAB AT A WHOPPING OVER A 100.000 ITS EASY TO SEE ITS NOT A LOT OF CHESSIE BREEDING GOING ON SO IT DONT GET THE TRAIT BRED OUT AS QUICK.AND YOU CAN HAVE A BAD DOG IN ANY BREED ITS TRUE.WHAT EVER PUP YOU DECIDE ON JUST TRY YOUR BEST AND BE PATIENT WITH IT YOULL PROBABLY BE FINE,IF HE GOT A BAD GENE YOULL SEE IT .. AND FOR MY FRIEND DOC E YOU HAVE A PROBLEM UP THERE WITH YOUR TEMPERMENT SO NEXT TIME IM IN YOUR AREA I LOOK FOWARD TO MEETING WITH YOU TO WORK THIS STUPID AND IGNORENCE PROBLEM OUT OF YA..

RE: chessie or lab?
 

I suspect a lot of problems we see with various breeds is a geographic/regional type of thing. What happens is that people start breeding dogs in an area and if there is a problem, it remains a problem because they don't go to another line somewhere else to eliminate the problem. There is a tremendous amount of "backyard" breeding that goes on. For every litter bred by someone who is experienced and knowledgeable, there are 50 litters (I have no idea how many....I just tossed out a number there) that are created by people who don't have a clue what they're doing. I can look in the newspaper any day of the week and find a litter of Labs for sale. In the spring I would estimate there are 4 or 5 litters for sale every week. Prices range from $200 to $500 per pup from what I've seen. If you go to a Retriever magazine and look at pups from the breeders who are serious and know what they are doing, they'll be selling for $600 and up and many will be $1,000 or more. It takes money to breed quality dogs.... OFA, CERF exams, Stud Fees for top quality dogs, etc. are not cheap. You just cannot afford to produce a quality litter of pups these days and sell them for $200, but that's what's happening and that's why we see so many health problems, temperament problems, etc.

I've used Labs here for illustration purposes.....I'm not picking on Labs. They're great dogs. I've seen the same thing happen with Goldens and to a lesser extent Chessies and probably only because there just aren't that many Chessies around compared to labs and Goldens.

The bottom line is (getting back to the original question in this post), regardless of whether you get a Lab or a Chessie, do your research and go with a breeder who knows what he's doing. If you do that, you'll have very good odds of getting a nice pup regardless of what breed you go with.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

Very well put tonka it was a pleasure reading that .It sounds like you have been there and done that too.very very good points ..thanks see ya

RE: chessie or lab?
 

Too illustrate Tatonka point, I've own a goldie (actually my sister's dog). The dog was advertised as a great hunter from field/show lines but my sister, who cared nothing for hunting, went and purchased this dog on looks. This dog ended up a bust for hunting. Hard-headed, wouldn't stay seated, would always run off to another blind to greet people. I tried pheasants and ended up with two dead mice. Didn't range at all kept to my side or behind me. The best advice would be make sure you do your homework then re-check it again.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

THE GOLDENS ARE BEAUTIFUL DOGS IVE NEVER OWNED ONE MYSELF ,WE HAVE SO MANY CUCKLEBURRS DOWN HERE THERE LONG HAIR WOULD BE A MESS.THANKS...

RE: chessie or lab?
 

My original discussion with tatonka seems to have been removed from this thread for some reason. Thats a shame, there was some polite and intelligent opinions offered from myself and tatonka in that discussion. Anyway.... I do understand where people have the idea that chessys are aggresive. At one time the breed was somewhat known for that, but as tatonka said in our last discussion good breeding has done well at solving that problem. In small town areas with mostly backyard breeders such as where I live it is very possible and much more likely to come out with a protective & territorial chessy (not unwarranted aggresion by the way). However like most chessy supporters have been saying as long as one does there homework and research of lines it should not at all be a problem to find a teddy bear chessy. Poor consumer practices can easily result in a bad seed from any breed. I would recommendthe lab for a beginner. Again, be sure toknow the line your buying into there has beena whole lot over breeding with labs. Big $$$ does NOT gaurantee a good dog. Heres a pic of the lab I have now. 20 months, 95lbs, great temperment, good natural hunter & bed hog spent $300.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

Still haven't found the Caps Lock key, huh?

RE: chessie or lab?
 

Well Ive owned both. Currently I have two black labs, one I trained to the Master Hunter level the other I adopted. I had a Chessie as the first dog I ever trained. I was 14 and he was a Christmas present. All in all he was an awesome dog. He had specific Chessie faults though, I have friends who have them now and they are very similar to my original chessie. First most males are very agressive towards other dogs, they are a very dominant dog. Mine would bully other dogs into fighting but not attack first, he was a very TOUGH dog, severly injury several dogs including a young pitbull that he almost killed. He would hunt all day without complaining but it had to be on his terms I COULD NOT force him into situations that he didnt want to be in, he would quit me (very common Chessie traight). Also he was very single owner oriented, he would listen to only me and my dad, he absolutely loved the whole family but he would only take discipline from me and dad. He was very quirky he would pile junk into a big pile and lay on it and guard everything away from "his" pile (very common chessie traight) he was fiercly protective of our property, you had to ****** people into the house if he was outside.I have thought about another one at times, but the biggest downfall to me right now is that they are really an outside dog, there coat is double layered and the hair can be ugly, not only that they have a very oily coat that doesnt mix well with carpets ect..... and they stink because of it. Another factor is that I dont like how the current breeding is going on Chessies, they are either short and stocky like English dogs, or skinny and lanky like field trial dogs, I think Chessies should be bred like they were originally meant to be, stout, somewhat tall, with great big barrel chests. There is a guy in Idaho named Butch Goodwin who is doing a fairly decent job on some of his breedings (depends on the litter) my old chessie looked like a pitbull on steroids, he was incredibly athletic, could jump a four foot fence flat footed. He came from Thunder River Kennels in Wisconsin, his great Grandpa was the lengedary Aluetian Surfbreaker. Thunder River is long gone now, this was 25 years ago. I think for 99% of the people out there labs are probably the best choice. My current male is awesome, I looked long and hard for him, he is fairly tall, barrel chested, slim in the rear, thick tail, double coatedwith a block head and he is a pure athlete, he has been a dream to train. He spent last year on a very famous bird operation in Idaho, after my season was over here in Montana and he performed impeccably for a number of different guides and hunters. Hard to beat a good black lab. Hard to find though takes lots of research.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

Great looking dog south county hes pretty and big i like them stout dogs

RE: chessie or lab?
 

LIKE I TOLD YOU PUNK I DO WHAT I WANT WHEN I WANT,IF YOU DONT LIKE IT GREAT.IT SAYS YOUR A BACK DOCTOR BUT I SWEAR IF I WAS THERE YOU WOULD NEED A DENTIST SO QUIT BEING A JIRK..M.F.IN PUNK.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

Thats a good story man i enjoyed reading got any pictures of them black beautys..

RE: chessie or lab?
 

I would like to say im sorry to everyone for having to get on doce ass. so much but you can see hes a jirk allways.

RE: chessie or lab?
 

You are so very cool. If you can't beat someone with facts, you resort to physical threats[:o]. You are definitely "the man"[:'(].



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RE: chessie or lab?
 

Allways a jerk..remember the dentist...man thats a good name for you ,,lets see how it looks all run together..[ ALLWAYSAJERK E]