What experience do you have with this breed?

Is it an equally effective dog for hunting/pointing upland game as well as hunting/retrieving waterfowl in cold water?

Thanks,

Dan

These breed's have small gene pools, Unless you HAVE to have one of these breeds, get a Dratharr. The odds on getting a good DD are very good because of the testing and large gene pool. The DD is by far the must used hunting dog in Germany.

My drahthaar pup at 15 weeks is surpassing my expectations. She is very very biddable, retrieving well, and is already flash pointing her birds and has at least decent water drive. She is tracking a duck drag out to 30 or more yards (this is her favorite training). Best of all, she is relatively calm (as far as birddogs go) and has shown no inclination to be a chewer or barker.

She is however, an awful awful awful little counter theif

All kidding aside, the drahthaar experience has been good, and I am not one to be "breed blind" or even "kennel blind". I have enough dog experience with retrievers and poitners to know what I like and what I do not like.

Awesome feedback. Really, the only things that brought a little concern to me on the Griffons were their tendency to chew everything.

Thanks a ton for your information.

Dan

I do prefer a broad gene pool in a breed, but on the other hand, a tight gene pool can be dynamite if the pool is so tight that only the best are bred to best within a tight line, therefore reproducing like specimens. Linebreeding isn't done for nothin'.

If one wants a broad gene pool, a German wirehaired pointer has a broader gene pool than a Drathaar (if one asks Drathaar breeders, they are not the same). If one were to go to NAVHDA tested lines for either shorthair, wirehaired, or a griffon one would find strong hunting lines. The griffon is probably the most improved breed over the last decade because of NAVHDA testing. Shorthairs and wirehairs still make up the bulk of the dogs testing and the breeds with the best percentage of prizing. These are some of the points in favor of testing ones dogs, the wirehaired pointing griffon was almost extinct as a hunting dog and testing (not the outcross to the Czseky Fousek) brought the breed back. NAVHDA and the breeders deserve a slap on the back.
To answer the questions, the griffon, when well bred, is a good upland dog and a good water dog. If we are comparing a griffon to a Ches in the water, the griffon lacks, but what doesn't. If the water is real cold, the answer is a retriever. The upland pointing and flushing breeds don't have the fat to handle the cold water. A neopreme vest will help immensely. If waterfowl in cold water is a large portion of your hunting, I would strongly suggest a Ches, Lab, or an American water spaniel. These dogs have the coat (which is important) and build (which is more important) to handle the cold. The wirehaired pointing breeds have the coat just not the build.
Dr Fatguy

Your alittle misinformed. There are more DD's then American breed German Wirehairs. NAVHDA doesent differentiate between the two. Mustad asked about Pointing breeds that also do duck work, Labs and Chessies are great for taking a line but I'd put my money on a DD or any of the german breeds for finding a lost duck in a swamp. I use my NAVHDA run GSP for all my duck work and never felt to be lacking. Your right about build and fat layers, my guy does get cold but I use a vest and try to dry him off. A DD with the proper two layer coat should be fine in the blind, just as good as a lab if not better.

Vono,
I realize one's prejudice can cloud one's viewpoint. Your post is an example. A DD's is a generalist, a Lab or Ches is a specialist. Where a Ches will thump any breed is in marking. Taking a line is what one thinks of when it comes to retriever field trials but doing a triple at a hunting test demonstrates marking. The duck in the swamp is what the Germans love ( I have trained a Deusches Jagdterrier for this so I understand it) but try a 200 yard mark through cover with another 150 yrd mark and a 100 yrd mark. The terrain is what will eat a retriever up ( more so than cover). Rolling terrain or entering water three times to finish a retrieve, this tests a dog. The specialist is better than the generalist (compare a decathlete's times and distances to the Olympic Champions' in the ten events and you will understand).
To state there are more DD's in America than German wirehairs, I call bull **** on this. There are more wirehairs. Give me a break. You are talking to someone who is in the process of importing a dog to the US. I know how the Germans feel about our breeding practices. There needs to be control according to the Germans. I need to see some stats. He who asserts must prove. You have asserted now demonstrate (put up or shut up).
Finally, you state we are talking about pointing breeds so I shouldn't discuss retrievers. To point you in the right direction, this thread is about Griffons not DD's (more breed blindness). You opened the threads to different breeds not me. Your NAVHDA Shorthair isn't a Kurzhaar according to JGV-USA neither is a wirehair a DD so let's keep things in perspective. My suggestion is to try a Ches or watch one work because you haven't. A Lab can't out spaniel a spaniel in the uplands (nor out shorthair a shorthair either for the pointing labs). Your shorthair might work well for you but maybe not a retriever guy. Go toa retriever hunt test or field trial with your eyes open and come back and talk to me. Your dog couldn't do the marks but the Ches or Lab could do the duck search the Germans love quite easily. It's not hard at all for a retriever. In fact the 100 yard blind acrossed the pond with the search, which eats up so many NAVHDA dogs, is elementary for a retriever,sois the duck search. I've seen SH dogs do much tougher blind and JH do a duck search. I think these are utility level tests in NAVHDA. Check it out. See if I'm not right.
Dr Fatguy

Dr. Fatguy,

You state:

I know how the Germans feel about our breeding practices. There needs to be control according to the Germans. I need to see some stats.

What do you mean by this. I am a little unclear. Are you saying that the perception Germans have is that the breeding practices in North America wrt Drahthaars is uncontrolled? Have there been some problems?

Thanks

Mustad,

Since I just spent the last half a year researching pups and breeds, let me answer this. please. The german breeding registry for the deutsch drahthaar has a strict set of tests that every dog must pass including field ability and confirmation in order to be bred. If your dog does not pass these tests (at least two of the tests, and each test may only be taken twice) it cannot be bred and registered as a DD. There are no problems that I found during my research.

In the AKC, there are no restrictions on breeding the german wirehaired pointer. If you have a dog you may breed to any registered bitch regardless of field ability or confirmation. Is there a difference? I don't know. Probably not much among well bred dogs of both breeds. Where I saw the difference when researching kennels were that

1) there are an awful lot of German Wirehaired Pointers that are strictly show dogs. I never realized this until I started digging.

2) there is a group that breeds GWP for horseback trials. These dogs seemed to have a lot lighter color, less hair, less size, etc.

3) I think Dr. Fatguy is right that there are more GWPs, but if you are considering true versatile bred dogs like NAVDHA vs. DD, there seemed to be more selection among the DD's.

For versaitlity, NAVDHA still had guys that produced all around dogs. I was open to either a DD or a NAVDHA GWP. I went with the DD because I liked the breeder that I chose a pup from.