VA HEAD HUNTER

HOUSE BILL NO. 1612
Offered January 12, 2005
Prefiled December 15, 2004
A BILL to amend and reenact § 18.2-134 of the Code of Virginia, relating to releasing hunting dogs on another landowner’s property; penalty.
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Patron— Cole (By Request)
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Referred to Committee for Courts of Justice
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Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

1. That § 18.2-134 of the Code of Virginia is amended and reenacted as follows:

§ 18.2-134. Trespass on posted property; release of dogs.

A. Any person who goes on the lands, waters, ponds, boats or blinds of another, which have been posted in accordance with the provisions of § 18.2-134.1, to hunt, fish or trap except with the written consent of or in the presence of the owner or his agent shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

B. It is unlawful for any person to release his dogs on another person’s posted land for the purpose of pursuing, taking, chasing, flushing, or killing game or wild animals, without the landowner’s permission. It shall be a rebuttable presumption that any hunter’s dog found on another’s property not under the control of its owner is in violation of this subsection. A violation of this subsection shall be a Class 4 misdemeanor.

Criggster

Sounds like a winner to me. We have a problem with other hunters dogs during the deer season west of the blue ridge.

The coon hunters like to hunt my neighbors property all of the time. But, they are legal;because, they turn their dogs loose on their property. It seems as though the coons always run to our property. And, we always have problems with trespassers.

eng40sqd

I hate to burst the anti hunters or should I say anti dogs hunters fuzzy warm feeling but that bill is dead now. I emailed Del Cole (Mark) and will post the email conversation in regards to this bill.... I have also spoke with him on the phone in great depth and he agrees this will do nothign but hurt the guys whom partake in the sport legally..the ones who illegally dump animals will still do so even with a new law on the books. He said he is going to push for more funding for more wardens so that there can be more than one per county which is the case most of the time..

here is the email converstation:


Mr. Cole,

As a life long sportsmen ( A fairly young one @ 30 years old) in this
wonderful state I have seen allot of rules change with the times. I have
seen land become increasing harder to obtain and to hold on to without
having to pay ungodly amounts in leases. I have seen some of our traditions
here in the commonwealth start to fade a bit and it worries me.

This bill 1612 bothers me greatly. While I understand the need to keep
people from trespassing or poaching I fill this bill will not do much to
curb that. In fact it will hurt the sportsmen who are abiding by the game
laws and local laws. Lets say I am running dogs on a lease of 800 acres,
one of the dogs breaks from the pack and picks up a different trail and
jumps the animal and runs it out of the lease and lets say two farms down.
The landowner or warden or deputy or hunter who does not dog hunt catches
my hound. Now I can be held criminally liable by this new bill and I have
done nothing in the wrong or with the intention to perform an illegal act.
So while I am catching the rest of the hounds the one that broke free will
not cost me legal trouble through no intentional fault of my own.

I see where this bill will cause a number if not a great number of
sportsmen whom use dogs in a legal manner to maybe give the sport up all
together due to the implications. However I feel the ones who practice
illegal methods such as dumping on someone else's property to run game out
onto their own will still continue to risk getting caught. I strongly feel
that those who are partaking in illegal activities be it game and fish
related or otherwise still continue to do so for the most part even if new
bills are passed.

I only hunt with dogs a few times a year, I mostly bow hunt but I would
hate to see anymore of our traditions fade away anymore than they already
have.

I see you live in the Fredericksburg area, and I am assuming the Hartwood
area by your phone number. I am a life long Stafford resident having grew
up in Ferry Farms and now living off of little Fairfax.. I mean Rt. 610 lol
I would be very interested in sitting and talking with you on your views
and concerns about hunting and fishing and can maybe put you in touch with
some pretty large groups that would give valuable input into bills
regarding these matters. I am the president of a newly formed sportsmen
club and once we get organized I would invite you to join us in the '05-'06
season to participate in a hunt.

One last thought I know there is a bill to change the BLue Law about Sunday
hunting, while its not a whole day as I would hope it is a start.. I
believe the bill is 175?? I am strongly for this bill passing as well as
the entire club.

I look forward to hearing back from you soon and hopefully meeting with you
in the future.

Justin Reid
President
Commonwealth Sportsmen Assoc.


and his reply:


To: Nitescapes - Justin Reid <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: HB 1612
Date: Jan 13, 2005 8:22 AM
I have decided to withdraw HB 1612 due to concerns that groups may try to
use the bill to restrict legal hunting. It was never my intent to restrict
hunting and I have always supported hunting rights. The bill was an
attempt to deal with the problem of irresponsible hunters intentionally and
knowingly sending their dogs onto posted property without the property
owner's permission. However, it has become apparent that anti-hunting
groups were planning to try to use the legislation in their campaign
against hunting. I would rather withdraw the bill than see it used in such
a fashion.

Thank you for sharing your concerns with me.

Mark Cole
Delegate, 88th District
Stafford, Spotsylvania, and Fauquier Counties


Once again sorry to bash the pipe dreams of a few to try to totally stop a long stading tradition... I agree that somethign needs to be done about the slobs who do it illegally but those who do it in a legal manner should not have to suffer... and we all know that most laws do not effect people partaking in illegal activities very much.. maybe a little.. just the law abiding ones who respect the law. This bill was groosly and poorly written in the facts there were too many holes in it.

Justin

VA HEAD HUNTER

yea it doesnt look much different then what is already in place for tresspasing on posted land. they way it is now is that you can only go on posted land to retrieve your dogs without a gun. and its not fair to hold someone responsible for a dog tresspassing since they cant read. and if they did then they would have to be just as strict when people let their house dogs run loose and through neighbors trash and yards and everything else. i wanted to see what people thought of it. i always get nervous when it comes to anything in legislature about hunting. we are already labeled as bad peope as hunters by the nonhuntingmembers of the communities. we dont need laws to help their cause against us thats for sure. oh and check out my new deer avitar. notice how the big bucks look before they cross?

reswire1

Seems like a shame gun clubs have more rights than landowners, and its a damn shame we don't have politicians with a backbone to respect the rights of individuals who own property. If I bought my doberman pinscher to a "dog-gun" club house and turned him loose it would be a crime. Dog clubs turn their dogs loose on 15 acres beside my farm knowing damn well they will run deer on my property and it's legal!
I think all hunts should be drawn on paper as to their intent, and filed with a game warden prior to execution. It may be a pain in the ass for a few club members, but it would keep them safe from my gun, and me safe from theirs. If a dog goes stray I don't blame the owner, but when dog clubs turn dogs loose on postage size lots, that's when a law needs to made that corrects the problem.
Sorry for sounding so angry, but I just put up with another deer season next to a hunt club without ethics, and I'm about ready to turn anti-hunter over it!!

VA HEAD HUNTER

res; if you keep having a problem call the game warden every time you see them on your land. after they have to deal with the game warden a few times they will stop. i dont know how your game warden is but ours is a hard nuts dude and he will enforce the laws vigorously. most of them will. if you keep having dogs come on the land and catch them and take them about ten miles up the road and drop em off. you cant really blame the dogs cause they cant read.

eng40sqd

reswire....I understand your frustration however this law would not be a help.. Like I posted above and like Mr COle talked in detail with me on the phone that all thi law would do is help the anti's gain a bit of leverage on the hunters. It will not stop clubs, groups or individuals whom partake in illegal or unethical (running dogs on 15 acrea lot when they dont have permission to hunt any adjoining land). Criminals or unethical people will continue to do whatever they have been doing regardless of the laws on the books since they already have a blanton disregard for the law and respect for others.

Nothing make me call a warden faster then a group who is road hunting or or is running out someones proprty without permission. I enjoy the use of hounds and wish to continue to do so and these people are the ones who make it harder to do so. I am not a everyday all season long dog hunter but I do on occasions love the memories it provides and brings back to mind and it has nothing at all to do with making a kill, just the friendship and listening to the hounds work.

Chris.. I would strongly urge people not to do what you suggest.. first of all it is not the dogs fault like you stated so why take them 10 miles or even 1 mile do the road away from the owners so that they may become lost or even hit by ca car??? The reasonable solution to catching a houdn on yoru property would be to call the owner and turn it over to them with a polite warnign that you do not wish to have dog hunting on you property and would they try to keep their dogs off. If it is a obvious problem like reswire has then catch the dogs and take them to the animal shelter or call them and have them pick them up... once the owners pay x amount of dollars per hound to get them out a few times they will figure out it might be better off to hunt elsewhere or hunt ethically with the hounds. ALso taking someones dogs and takign them 10 miles down the road and turning them loose could lead to unwanted disputes espically if the dogs has a trakign collar, they could say you were stealing the hound. Also it could cause a bigger riff and heat up an already tense situation and the group may take vendictive actions since they already knowingly break the law whats to stop them from doing that?? Like you see I try not to use the temr club to describe groups who are unethical or illegal in the way they hunt since I feel clubs are generally respectable hunters these guys however are doing nothign but cutting their and everyone elses throat with the actions!!

Criggster

The problem with the law regarding dog hunters is this: They can LEGALLY retrieve their dogs from anyones property, if they don't carry a weapon with them. The problem is they turn them loose on very small properties, such as those mentioned above, sometimes they DO have weapons with them, and after their dogs and themselves run all over your property your hunting is gone to hell!

jcb9901

Get them on video on your property with thier weapons and give it to the warden.Sounds like you need a law resticting use of coon dogs during deer season.

reswire1

Eng 40 sqd,

You sound like an ethical hunter to me, the kind I like to hunt with. The problem I'm having is there is No, I repeat No game warden in Essex County!!!!! This is a direct quote from vdgif. They don't have anyone to take care of illegal or irresponsible hunters, the only thing honest hunters can do is sit by and watch all the jerks do us in!!! It seems they are too thinly dispersed to patrol the area. My son and daughter no longer hunt on my farm because they are either afraid of being shot, or being cursed by other hunters and hunt clubs. It is a real problem in our area, hunters hunt where they want, like they want. I have pictures of hunters parked on Fort A.P. HIll with their guns out, standing there like they own the damn place!! I have pictures of 10-15 hunters lining the roads in areas where you can 't see 10 into the woods in front of them.

I wish I knew what person to take these pictures to. Someone who could use them to force the game department to get off their ass and do something. I might sell my farm this year, probably split it up into building lots and move to a better, more manageable area. Pisses me off, but I don't feel like I want to deal with the *******s another year.