Sunday hunting bill sb 464
 

I just got a email from the Virginia Sunday Hunting Coalition saying that the bill will be voted on tomorrow Feb 15 at 8 am.....we need to call and mail all the same people as before and tell them to vote yes.....hope it passes.......

Thanks for the update

I'm afraid they will kill it in committee. Hope 'm wrong.

they say its not looking good, there is some kind of special meeting being called at an offtime, speculation is so they can kill the bill quietly

Just read on another site the Sunday Hunting bill SB 464 FAILED 4-3........
Dog hunters win again.......

can someone explain to me why exactly the dog hunters ( not stereotyping, im sure there are some doghunters who arent anti-sunday hunting) dont want sunday hunting?

Believe it has to do with training their dogs on sunday free of hunters.

Scottycoyote.....this is what I think......when you use dogs to hunt on saturday and you don't find them all after the hunt then Sunday is the day you go out to look for them......now if you were to use them on Sunday and don't find them all after the hunt is over what do you do.....????....take off Monday....????...let them run the woods all week and hope they don't get hit by a car on the road or just get lost and you never get them back....so to me it seems like the dog hunters that don't want Sunday hunting are saying if I can't hunt on Sunday because I can't / won't use my dogs then I don't want ANYBODY to hunt Sunday.....that's just my .02

I DON'T FREAKIN' BELIEVE IT..... SB464 FAILED !!!!

As I posted on VA Sportsmen this morning...
NOW AIN'T THIS JUST IRONIC... SB464 GETS SHOT DOWN AND MY WIFE HITS A $&#^% DEER THIS MORNING!!!!!!!!

Lastly, thank you, Virginia... Thank you... Continue to keep Virginia stuck in the 1890's. You just lost a hunter! I'm done hunting in Virginia! I'll hunt my sister & brother-in-law's farm up in upstate NY from now on!

I wouldn't quit hunting locally over it,
I have a place in pa which is going through similar sh rules.
Where upstate is your inlaws farm? I also have a place in upstate ny(northern lewis county)

My sister & BIL have a beautiful 125 acre farm in Brookfield, NY in Madison County (DEC area 7M). It's about 45 minutes south of Utica (i.e. Southeast of Syracuse).

It's awesome up there, and the deer, turkeys, and geese, are literally everywhere!

Anyway, SB464 had the best chance out of all the Sunday hunting bills throughout history, and had the approval of the Senate. But yet, Virginia still wants to stay stuck in the 1890's and not allow people to hunt their own land on Sunday.

I know the area, some times take route 8-12 up that way.
My land (50 acres) is about 1.5 hrs north of utica.
Deer/turkey/geese everywhere? Even with sunday hunting, imagine that.

I kind of figured this would happen so I was not too surprised. My feeling was it would do well on one side and fail in the other. The only positive thing is, the issue progressed further than it ever has before. Hunters need to find out how their representatives feel about this issue and remember it come voting time!

well they must have nudie pics of some of these senators to keep them on a leash like this. Way to go virginia, throw away all the money to be made, and the chance to give hunters who dont have unlimited time to hunt another day to get it done, and you blow it.....sucks, im really pissed off about this.

I am a dog owner and hunter in VA. I am a Former member of the Virginia hunting dog alliance. This is what they told me when I asked why they did not support sunday hunting. I was told that it was going to be bad for the entire hunting sport because it would open the door for dog hunters to shoot themselves in the foot, and lead into the end of dog hunting and hunting in VA.

have nothing against dog hunters,
but when they make such statements wish they would state how so.
i cant agree or disagree without knowing how sunday hunting will diminish dog hunting,
dog hunting still thrives in states with sunday hunting.

I agree with you Terasec. that is why I am a former member I fully support hunting on sunday. I tried to find the conversation that I had with them on Facebook but am having trouble finding it. once I find it I will post it on here for yall to read.

I seriously doubt you were a member of Vahda. Your information concerning the reasons why???? are incorrect... I also noticed you just joined the forum recently, maybe to make it look like your pulling ranks from Vahda. we're getting members joining daily. will miss you.


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Hokieman you can think what you want to about my post but the fact is I was the one that was involved in the conversation with a Member of the VHDA and that is what 2 different members told me. I know there are other reasons but that is one that they listed. Yes I did just join the board a few days ago but what does that matter. I had some info that I wanted to share about the sunday hunting bill. If you don't like what I have to say then don't read it.

Hokieman.....since VTHUNTER79 info concerning the reasons why are incorrect would you please explain to all of us why the VaHDA dosn't want Sunday Hunting......????????

Cultral difference between the west and east of blueridge. western counties have alot more national forrest to hunt and it wouldn't conflict with anything but the eastern part of the state, the land is owned by companies and farmers who doesn't want sunday hunting, so the deer hound clubs they lease too have to follow their order or look for another lease inwhich to hunt. I know it seems unfair but ruarl nothern va hunters who don't have land is looking for land to hunt and doesn't fill compasionate towards landowners concerns not to hunt on sundays. now with that said my personal belief is no to sunday hunting but that is my opinon only. happy hunting...

Give me your name and I'll make sure your name is deleted from our members list...

So what your saying is the farmers that don't want people hunting on their land on Sunday can tell all the rest of us hunters that own land that we can't hunt on Sundays........no it's not unfair ....it's an infringement of my property rights...what gives you or anyone else the right to tell me what I can or can't do with my property on
Sundays....??????.......Sunday Hunting will come in the very near future and dog hunting will slowly fade away......

If a farmer doesn't want someone hunting his property on Sunday then he does not have to do so. Most of the farmers I know are also hunters and want the option to hunt on Sunday.

VAhuntr.....That makes way to much sense.....you know it's all about "Cultural Differences"......:bash::biggrin:

I think it will be interesting in the coming year to see what happens. Another thing to watch. There is a bill that passed the House called HB 896. It would allow Virginia ABC stores in rural areas, to be open on Sunday....such as they are in Northern VA, Richmond, and Hampton Roads. Now, I'm not against drinking and feel the state should not be involved in liquor sales to begin with, but it would be interesting to see how some of the House Delegates voted on this issue. You know, some of the ones who claim that they don't agree with Sunday hunting because it is a "day of rest"?

VAhunter,
I would like to personally thank you and others like you for the time and effort you put forward in getting the message out on this issue. I, too, really thought that this time would be the time that the old blue law went to blue law heaven!

The silver lining that I did find this time around was that there was much more discussion amongst us, the hunters, as to the real cause of this limitation to our state "rights." For too many years and around too many hunting camps the word has usually been that them "dern liberals and bunny huggers are goofing it up for all of us, let them go back to their commune." Now, I do understand that there are several left wing groups that would rather hunting come to a complete end, but now we also know who else is involved in this wacky restriction.

I can already see it now : The dog hunters/church folks do not want Sunday hunting, the bike riders/nature hikers don't want Saturday hunting....... Before you know it we will run out of days of the week and hunting will be gone forever! Now this may appear a bit dramatic, however, if all of us hunting group, splinters do not present a unified front Sunday may not be the only day we will not be able to hunt.

Once again thank you for helping to educate all of us and keeping us politically involved!

dan

Thanks, but I really don't feel as if I do enough to warrant a special thanks. There are others who do much more than I do. ButchA and brewman555(off the top of my head) have done quite a bit of lobbying themselves. I'm glad you can see there has been progress on this issue, as it is easy to just say the heck with it and forget about it. I truly believe Virginia hunters are closer to being able to hunt on Sundays than we have ever been.

Just remember that you can un-elect these politicians when the time comes...

Is this the best you have? Even if Sunday hunting were made legal it would still be up to the landowner to participate. Companies and farmers who lease land could easily make rules prohibiting Sunday hunting on their properties. Meaning they would have a choice. Which is exactly what they and other landowners should have.

The fact of the matter was this bill had overwhelming support in the senate as evidenced by the 29-11 vote but was killed by a house sub-committee by a vote of 4-3. Interestingly enough the 4 delegates voting nay seemed to listen more to special interest groups like the VAHDA and the Farm Bureau. Wanna know why that's interesting? Because these same guys voted to extend Bear chase seasons this very year which by the way is legal on Sunday.

As a matter of fact there are several chase seasons open to hound hunters on Sunday already. In essence the strongest opposition to Sunday hunting in VA is the VAHDA which is made up of hound hunters who are the ONLY hunters who can legally hunt on Sunday already. Not only can they hunt/chase on Sunday they can do it on my property and can come onto my property to retrieve their hounds. Sounds fair right, taking my property rights away and giving them to someone else who has no claim to the land. See welfare.

The main charge was lead by Delegate Lee Ware and I encourage anyone in VA to contact his office and Edmunds, Fariss, and Wrights office as well(the other nay voters). 44 states allow Sunday hunting and 39 have no restrictions. It is estimated that Sunday hunting would create close to 3000 jobs and put nearly 300 million dollars into VA economy not to mention provide another avenue to help control the VA deer herd. Lets not forget about all the parents out there who work so much they can hardly get out to hunt or take their kids hunting for that matter. Think that extra day would help them and get more youngsters involved? How about our active duty service men and women? VA has a giant active duty population many of whom already have very limited time to enjoy hunting season or introduce their young ones to hunting due to deployments and work. Think they would like an extra day?

The arguments about days of rest, and non-hunter safety can be so easily picked apart and dismissed it's barely worth mentioning but I will be happy to do so if anyone would like to discuss those topics.

The VAHDA uses scare tactics that the sky is falling for dog hunting if Sunday hunting is passed. Then they fail to provide any evidence of a relation between the two. It is a fact that hound hunting in VA is and has been under attack for years now and we don't even have Sunday hunting. The VAHDA is only causing a divide between hound hunters and their potential allies(the rest of us) and don't be fooled they are the ones who's preferred method will need the most support in the future. Ever wonder when the first laws were put into place in regards to restricting hound hunting? How about 1876...yeah you read that right. Here's a good article Hokieman, enlighten yourself because they will be coming after dog hunting regardless of Sunday hunting:

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/2010/09/22/deermanagement_naw_debate_1009/


Another surprising bit of info to me was one of the delegates that voted against it was Matt Fariss and when I went to his home page to learn more about him under the tab titled "Issues" he had this as his stance on Property Rights:

"Property Rights-
A crucial element of right to the pursuit of happiness so eloquently espoused by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence, is the right to property. Matt understands this fact and there will be no more ardent defender of property rights in the House of Delegates. He understands the challenges and frustrations that come when government attempts to regulate how property owners utilize their property, and he will work to remove power from regulating bureaucracies and return it back to the people and their elected representatives. Matt will fight against legislation that restricts the rights of property owners."

Yeah I laughed too. Thanks Matt for ardently defending my rights as a landowner. Remember all we needed was 1 vote.

The hound hunters got to keep Sunday hunting/chasing all to themselves again this year largely due to the VAHDA propaganda and having a couple of delegates in line. I encourage any VA hunters out there to e-mail these legislators throughout the next year and ask them to stand behind their stated principles instead of appeasing special interest groups such as the VAHDA. Also join http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/vasundayhunting4all/ on FB and see the website:

http://www.virginiasundayhunting.org/

It's just a matter of time VA.

http://www.seriousbirdhunting.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Sunday_hunting_restrictions_map_NRA.jpg

Also I apologize if these links are already up here, I havent been on in a while.

Well said NEW61375.....Excellent post......

Stop that BS attitude with me and property infringement rights... Now on your own land go build a house or a deck and see what you get for not contacting your city govenrment. It's your land go tell them to piss off Mr. Attitude!!!

Above is some typical VAHDA logic. See the problem is it makes no sense. As a landowner you CAN build a deck, house, addition, etc. Yes you will have to jump through the hoops of obtainging a building permit, inspections, all of the things that basically ensure the city is gonna get money from you somehow. But in the end you could still build on your land.

Now to compare that to Sunday hunting really doesn't make sense but I'll tell you why I wish it did because using that example you would suggest that as a landowner if I contacted the state, city, vdgif, whomever and obtained/paid for a permit I could then hunt on my land on Sunday. Sign me up I'll pay $18 dollars a season for my Sunday Landowner License.

The way I see it... If you lock your gate, You can do whatever you want whenever, thats what landowners do anyway for years now, were you been?

Problem is I can lock my gate and put up NO TRESPASSING signs but I can't stop people from coming on my land and looking for their dogs.......kinda of an infringement of my property rights.....and no you CANT DO WHATEVER YOU WANT just because you own the land......if you could I'd be HUNTING ON SUNDAYS ......

NEW61375 you have some great things to say. Way to go.

The way I see it the VAHDA needs some better spokesmen.

I've been on hound sites lately trying to gain some insight as to why so many hound hunters are opposed to Sunday Hunting. I've attempted to have reasonable dialogue and have asked many questions in regards to their opposition. I'd like to say I made some headway but ultimately I was left with more questions than answers. No legal arguments were made, no data or information showing the potential for an adverse impact on hound hunting was provided, no explanation as to the opposition against private landowners being able to hunt their own land, absolutely nothing.

I assure you that Hokieman can provide no such information either. The VAHDA is the blind leading the blind and what's worse is they are headed towards a cliff of their own making. The hound site I referred to earlier goes as far as to delete SH threads where their arguments are dismantled and their hypocrisy is put on display, no matter how civil they remain. Why? They don't want their own members to read it and start thinking for themselves.

The 3 largest groups opposed to Sunday Hunting in 2010-11 were the HSUS,the VAHDA, and the Farm Bureau. Be careful who you lay with as the HSUS isn't the best company for a hunting organization to be keeping.

Sunday hunting in VA has the support of the NRA, Ducks Unlimited, Bass Pro, and many other strong lobbyists for outdoorsman. We had an overwhelming change in momentum this year with 11-4 vote in the Senate sub-committee followed by 29-11 vote in the Senate to make it to the house. Delegate Lee Ware is VA Sunday Hunting public enemy number 1 (imo) as he headed the sub-committee that killed it with the 4-3 vote and wrote several editorials in local papers in opposition. Yet in the same year he and many others voted in support of allowing bear chasing to begin earlier than 30 minutes before sunrise (changed to 4:00 a.m.) during the bear chase season. That in itself is no big deal except for the fact that bear chase seasons and many other chase seasons are already legal on Sundays. Chasing is defined as hunting by the VDGIF and requires a hunting license.

So what that says to me as a landowner is this. I can't legally hunt my land on Sunday but someone else can run their dogs through it in effect hunting raccoon, fox, deer, bobcat, bear, etc. and if need be they can go onto my property to retrieve said hounds. In Del. Wares' mind that is fair and keeping the laws that way is for the "common good" as he has said many times.

So taking my rights to my private property away and giving them to someone else is ok as long as it's for the "common good".


"History calls those men the greatest who have ennobled themselves by working for the common good.." Karl Marx

"The theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."

Karl Marx-The Communist Manifesto


I only put the above quotes in to highlight just how flawed that "common good" logic can be. I don't believe Ware to be some horrible person but as an elected official Ware is supposed to have an objective view on these bills yet at every corner he approves Sunday seasons for his constituents and blocks Sunday Hunting for the rest of us. Landowner rights on private property should not be infringed to appease his VAHDA and Farm Bureau supporters.

VA hunters, call your legislators, e-mail them, get your family to, get your neighbors to and continue to do so all year and especially when it comes vote time again. Join the VA Sunday hunting groups and make some noise.

From an e-mail:

Sunday Hunting Volunteer Opportunities

All,

As we prepare for the next steps in the Sunday hunting fight - you will hear more on that in the coming days - we continue our outreach efforts around the Commonwealth to find and engage supporters.

To that end, we will have a presence at upcoming sports and gun shows around Virginia. We are in need of volunteers to help sign up supporters.

There are three events this weekend:

The Western Virginia Sport Show in Fishersville
The Southeastern Gun and Knife Show in Richmond
The Showmasters Gun Show in Harrisonburg

If you are available to volunteer at one of these events to sign up supporters, please email or call Andrew Vehorn at [email protected] or 804-771-5307.

Thanks for all of your efforts that have gotten us this far.

Sincerely,

Your Virginia Sunday Hunting Team
www.virginiasundayhunting.org

The 3 largest groups opposed to Sunday Hunting in 2010-11 were the HSUS,the VAHDA, and the Farm Bureau. Be careful who you lay with as the HSUS isn't the best company for a hunting organization to be keeping.

I saw this in your post and did not know if you knew about how bad the VAHDA bashes and hates the HSUS. They just got done fighting a bill that the HSUS was pushing for to outlaw fox pens in VA.

I am aware of that and the VAHDA has fought for many other hound related topics. In all honesty were it not for their stance on Sunday Hunting I would have no problem supporting them. The bill your talking about got tabled to a study group so that isn't the last we'll hear of it, just the last we'll hear of it this year.

Last year when Sunday Hunting got shut down in the Senate committee two of the most vocal organizations were the HSUS and VAHDA, this year the VAHDA was hands down the most vocal group against Sunday Hunting. They were willing to be on the same side as the HSUS on SH a year prior(a group all hunters usually oppose) because they speculate it will benefits hound hunters in the future to prevent SH from getting passed. Yes they have the interest of VA hound hunters first and foremost, just not all VA hunters.

I guess the difference between myself and probably the average VAHDA member is that when I called and e-mailed in support of the VA SH bill I also called and e-mailed my opposition to SB202 and HB695, the fox pen bills. Why? Well it's certainly not because I support the decisions of the VAHDA, it's simply because I support VA hunters.

I am opposed to attacks or infringement on any and all of our hunting. So as much as I might disagree with the leadership of the VAHDA on Sunday Hunting, as a hunter and outdoorsman in VA I don't want the HSUS trying to shut down fox penning, field trials, dog hunting, etc. So I have to swallow my frustration with the VAHDA and fight against the fox penning bills just as hard as I will fight in support of Sunday Hunting. Because putting aside petty differences and selfish wants and supporting hunting in VA is in all of our best interest in the long run.

And that's the difference in a nutshell, when it comes to Sunday Hunting the VAHDA puts itself before VA hunters as a whole. That causes in-fighting and division between generally like minded individuals. What's the old saying? "Divide and conquer"....it's a shame we are dividing ourselves.