RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

Here people take their pets, love them so much they cant have them put down, and dump them in the country. Good old spot, fred,........ect, dont know why but they learn fast that they need to kill to eat or just to kill.
Sometime they run in packs of 20 other times its just a couple. Kill chickens, rabbits, sheep, goats, .....what ever they can get to.
This past year their have been over 50 reported livestock killings by dogs running through property. So you tell me what would you do? Just how much live stock are you willing to risk? Here we dont care what they are doing some where else but on our property and we havent given permission for them to be there, dead dog. In ways its a easy death compaired to what the yotes will do to them.
Sound harsh then be responsible! Know where the lines are and who owns the property next to where you hunt. Know phone numbers and let them know that your dog might of strayed onto their property, ask to secure same instead of just barging in. PUT ALL GUNS AWAY! Considered very rude and could get you shot. No means no. If thats the case call game warden and see if he can help but till then you better respect the owners answer.
I also just read a report that in the past 5 months, In this county, over $52,000 worth of property has been stolen along with over 150 guns. This has been taken place in the farming and ranching lands. Starting to see the picture here.
Cap in hands, asking and not demanding, being responsible even to the point of going to that person and telling them your sorry for your dog(s) straying onto their land, goes along way here and might just get you access to the property.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

+1

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

So that means that dog hunters did it???????? Or ya just saying not to let people in general on your property cause it could lead to them returning to steal your property? I had one of my supposed to be friends steal a gun out of my house when we were not home and he was a police officer...He did not hunt at all. Needless to say we no longer talk.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

im not aware of any areas in va having such problems as that.even hardend hound hunting oponents have stated the posibilities of such problems but havent brought forth any fact that such activities are happening.

i also think your a little off comparing your problems to ours,your talking wild unwanted dogs to hunting dogs, apples to oranges,there is a HUGE DIFFRENCE in shooting a wild dog out for blood and shooting a hunting dog out of spite

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

I'm wondering what the dog was doingwhen it got shot.

What was the dog hunting to begin with?

Did anyone bother to save the slug, so forensics could test it?

Did the owner of the property have dog problems prior to the shooting?

Does everyone agree, that if the dog wasn't on the property it got shot on ... it probably would still be alive!

I re-call a story where a dogran through an un-lockedgate, and ran out into traffic, and caused an accident,with injuries and the dog died.
Whose fault was it? The dog owner,for not having/being in control of his dog.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

Ok now you're being logical. Leave your dogs on a leash while hunting. Great idea. You must be pretty fast if you can run with your dogs on a leash and keep up with the game (not just deer but coon, pheasants, anything hunted with a dog). The dog was doing what it was trained to do, running deer is legal where this took place so I can't believe that people are that ignorant to blame the dog. The owner wasn't breaking any laws also so how is he to blame. If the game a dog is chasing runs off of the big piece of land you are on how is that the owners fault. Come on guys be logical, use facts to base claims not emotions!!!

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

How do you hunt pheasant or any other birds with a dog that goes out of site? Any good bird dog is going to keep up with his owner and if it doesn't it's the owner's fault.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

I didn't say that my bird dog isn't in my sight. What I said is he isn't completely in my control. Any dog even well trained is still a dog! They will occasionaly do things that are stupid and against what they have been trained. Thats where e-collars come in but still if the dog isn't on a leash you aren't fully in control. And I in the instance of the dog running thru the unlocked gate how do you know that the owner wasn't right there.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

The dog wasn't a "huntin' dog" as you described, that ran through the un-locked gate. All dog owners must be in control of there dogs at all times, asdescribed in the laws in most cities.
Before you clobber me over the head ... I know these were loose dogs, that were huntin'!

I didn't blame the dog ... or the owner. No emotion here!

Then, what you're sayin' is, that when dogs are out of control, if they get killed, then that comes with the territory. You are probably right ... the father should have forewarned his son and spared him the misery of finding his tresspassing, dead dog.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

Sadly, dogs can be better than a LOT of people.

I remember my Dad working with somebody who called himself a hunter. A friend of a friend who wanted my Dad to help him work with his dog because the dog kept flushing birds when it wasn't suppossed to.

So my Dad and I brought our dog along to show him some pointers and hope his dog would pick up on some of it. The main problem is this "hunter" had never made a single attempt to actually train his hunting dog. Just kept it in a kennel in the back yard and most of it's human contact was those rare occassions when it was let out of the cage to "go hunting."

Needless to say the dog was a bit spastic because it was thrilled to be out of the cage and to have contact with other living things like people and birds. And it loved to chase birds.

Well after about the 4th time it did that, because it wouldn't stop and point like a trained dog, this "hunter" took a bead on his dog and shot it because he was so pissed off that his stupid dog kept costing him birds.

I was completely horrified because it had never occurred to me that people like this actually existed. And for a long time I didn't want to go hunting anymore for fear of discovering more people like that who call themselves hunters. The guy really couldn't understand what the big deal was and why we packed up our stuff and went home.

I have come to learn there are two kinds of people out there who call themselves hunters. Those who actually are, the kind who hunt for food, challenge of the hunt, etc. and some reprehensible pieces of human trash who just want to kill something, often for no reason.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

Be sure and let us know when that happens. I won't hold my breath.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

Here is some logic for you:

A dog can easily run10 miles during a hunt. Lets half that for arguments sake, a5 mile radius equals about80 square miles equals about 50,000 acres. If you have less than 10,000 acres, it is a virtual certainty that your dog will be on someone else's property. If you have less than 3,000 acres,you can bet your dogwill likely be on someone's else's property for the majority ofthe hunt.

Do you think that you have a right to the use of someone else's land? At the very, very least, people should be extremely apologetic and take every precaution against their animal entering someone else's land. To the contrary, the thread starter here not only asserts entitlement to the use of land that isn't his, but his downright condescending and unconcerned with the landowner's use of their land, all while demanding pity for the negative consequences of his nuisance behavior.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

While I certainly don't want to justify shooting a dog, I agree that the dog and the owner have no right to the property of others. And I agree that simply turning them loose is probably the main reason the dog was killed. I know I won't do that with my dogs, too many things can happen to them.

Hate to say it but if you want to do that, you are gonna need to own a lot of fenced land. You have to be responsible for your dogs and the safety of your dogs. Still a shame some assbag killed it when there was probably no real reason to do so. But some people simply don't care.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

Ditto!
I concur ... "At the very,very least, people should be apologetic!"

Instead they have "an entitlement to go any where they want!"
The man should feel lucky that it was his dog that got shot instead of him ... in parts of this country, people still shoot and ask questions later!

Do you think he got it?

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

I went through this thread a while back and just now came back to see the new posts. I will apologize up front if this has already been addressed but I digress........I have not read every diatribe in this thread.

To the subject of the "dog"?? I am truly sorry for your loss. That must be hard to deal with and I certainly would not want that to happen to my dog/dogs. However, I am much more responsible with my animals than to let them wander onto other peoples property.

Property rights are a big deal here if you can't tell.

The above poster is correct. Some parts of the country are a bit different and here in Texas it is the same way.

Do not let your dog get away from you and cause problems! I have shot two dogs in the last twenty years here. Both were claimed to be pets and both owners ended up paying us a fine, not the other way around. One was a catahoula and the other a pit (stafford terrier).

Both owners claimed that they were "hog" dogs.

Well great for you. Now what in the hell was your dog doing on my property? And by the way, to the pit owner.....thank you very much for him ripping the ass out of an aoudad sheep right in front of my PAYING hunter. Yep, dead dog. Go get another one and keephim on your own property!

Here it is plain and simple.......

You own a dog. He comes on my property (6900 acres) and disrupts a hunt from a PAYING hunter. I am sorry to say, but that is a dead dog!!

I really don't care if he has a collar on or not. He is dead! And you will (at least here) end up paying a fine forthe incidentafter I kill your dog. This county here will not tolerate negligence in any form or fashion.

Plain and simple folks. You are responsible for that animal, not the PRIVATE property owner that rightly ended his life!

It is sad that a loved pet could be owned by such a negligent owner!

Control your dogs!

Best wishes to all.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

I don't believe that was politically correct what you said, diamondaranch, but, you sure sound like a straight shooter ... I mean sharp shooter!

And you s-u-r-e don't mix words and I respect that ... now, get ready to get clobbered ...by all that disagree with your philosophy of culling all the tresspassing, flea bitten mongrels.

If I had witnessed that "pit" doing what it does best, well, let's just say ...I'm with ya.

Each incident, in my mind, prior to reading your post, would require hesitationand not be a blanket thought of, kill, 'em all!

And I quote you:
"Well great for you. Now what in the hell was your dog doing on my property? And by the way, to the pit owner.....thank you very much for him ripping the ass out of an aoudad sheep right in front of my PAYING hunter. Yep, dead dog. Go get another one and keephim on your own property!"

I may have to re-think my stance, after all, it was a dog that taught me un-conditional love ...

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

I have no interest in being politically correct or otherwise in an issue such as this.

As far as the "clobbering"? Bring it on. I have thick skin and I know that what I say is within my personal rights as a property owner. Bring your pet too......after I "can" his ass you can pay the fine that the judge awards for him being on my property......disrupting our personal business!!

I know that sounds really harsh and is probably going to hurt the sensibilities of some of the previous posters. So be it.

I absolutely cannot understand how a person can expect a private property owner to NOT do what I have described. That is beyond me and really beyond common sense.

Damn!!! It's your dog right? He has your collar on his pretty little neck right? You raised himfrom a puppyright?

Then keep his hind end on your own property and not mine.

I do not know if the original problem here occurred on private or public land. That issue has not been addressed. Errrrrr, sorry, I have not SEEN it addressed yet. If it has been, then the masses have my apologies.

I have no experience with "public" land. Public landdoes not exist anywhere around me other than a state park that is the size of a frickin hobby farm......and the state does not allow it to be hunted.

Folks, don't get me wrong here. I really am a dog owner/lover. I love my dogs as if they were family.

But here is where I get some of ya............my dogs will never have the opportunity to be shot on someone else's PRIVATE property. That is called responsibility for your animals as well as for your own actions with those animals.

Best wishes!!

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

Last night I went for a 4-mile run (in 34 degree weather!). I run on the residential streets of my neighborhood. About half a mile into my run I heard a dog bark once behind me. I turned to look and saw a medium sized mutt running at mefull out across the yard on the other side of the street. It was growling when it came into the pavement after me. I yelled at it but it kept coming. When it got directly behind me I gave it a quick mule kick in the head. It yelped and stopped the chase. Only then did the owner come out of his garage to see what happened. He called to the dog and it trotted back. I kept going, knowing that it was a cul-de-sac and I would have to come back out. Fortunately, the owner did not have a problem or didn't want a confrontation. It's one thing when your dog is on your property, but another thing when it is not. If I had been bitten in the public right-of-way, he would have hada lot more to worry about. It's not just what your dog does on my property, it's what he does when he's not on yours.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

diamondranch and poppa,i respect your opinions and views,were yall come from it may be legaland perfectly acceptible for you to do what you do,thats fine with me.but here in virginia,private or public if the chase begins on allowed lands and proceeds to private or posted lands that is legal as long as the chase wasnt started on phrohibited lands,now the hunter cannot cross prohibited lands unless he is retrieving said dog from chase and only on foot and un-armed.the shooting of the dog in virginia is a felony now.the fellows in this artical were doing verything legal and the guy that shot the dog was not by our state and local laws and that makes the shooter,in our case and state, the one in the wrong.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

Here is an interesting little write up I found.

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/10/virginias-huntingdog-law-finds-itself-cross-hairs

Vahoundsman, I can appreciate the "age old tradition" etc etc, yeah its the law bla bla.

But, I tend to agree with the one person quoted in that article that issaying "your" law is unconstitutional.

I have no problem with the dogs per se. It's not their fault, it is the dog's OWNER's fault in my mind.

I just read alot about that law in VA. And yep, your right, it is the law!!

However, I simply cannot fathom how a state governmental entity of any kind can make a PRIVATE property owner ANYWHERE in this country responsible for the negligence of others. That law needs to be reformed asap in my opinion.

As far as we go here?? I probably won't be shooting many dogs anyway. From my above post I hope you can deduce that it really is not a problem in this area of Texas (two intruding nuisance dogs in 20 years is not much.)

Besides, if any "stray pets" make it onto this property, they probably will be dead before I see them running around on our ranch.

We have cyanide charges in the ground all over this ranch in a never ending battle against the lovely coyote. No canine can smell it, then resist biting it. Boom dead dog and no shot fired.

Control your dogs and best wishes!

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

vahoundsmen, I agree that it's the law, a law with consequences,and would probably even try huntin' with dogs in Virginia, someone else's dogs, not mine.

But, the original post asked the question, what was the dog owner going to say to his young son, when he asked, "why someone would shoot/kill hisdog" ... I think that diamondaranch, answered that question rather eloquently.

The father could have prepared his son for his loss, the longer the dogs run, the more of a chance/risk, they take.

All hound owners must ask themselves ... is it worth the risk?

Again as diamonaranch stated, it was the fathers choice to run the dog and not prepare his son for the inevitable loss of a dog running wild!

Entitlement can be a very dangerous one-way street ... of no return!

PS You made a very good point RenaissanceBiker, with your last statement!

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

First of all, I have been reading this website for awhile and enjoy it. I had to register so I could post on this discussion.

This topic is simply ridiculous. Some guy on here said it is the "law" that they can't shoot a dog on their personal property? Did I get that right?

Well blow me down folks. I am a guide on a ranch south of Marathon Texas. I don't know about the rest of the country and so it seem in this case Virgnina, but these kind of things don't fly around here.

My boss's property is HIS property. We do not use dogs for deer. Who in the hell ever thought that up? That is just nuts in its self.

All I can say is watch yer dogs and keep em off this property if they are pets and you want em back still walking

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

Welcome to the forum Westtexasrancher!

Your view points, picturesand posts are welcomed here, and I don't "mess with Texas!"

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

To kill a dog that is not a threat to you that is just doing what is LEGAL and also very popular here in VA is just moraly wrong. maybe it was the upbringing some had or maybethey are just ruthless and a few screws short if you know what i mean. The person who did this should be put in jail, and left alone in a room for a few minutes with the dog owner's father to be taught a lesson. The ones who would actually kill a hunting dog should not be allowed to carry a gun much less be able to hunt with one. The ones who would kill a hunting dog period need serious help. I have only dog hunted a hand full of times but loved it and MOST of those who hunt with dogs love their dogs like family. If you dont like the hunting laws in virginia then get them changed(good luck with that) or go hunt somewhere else. Killing a hunting dog.....sick,self confident issuesperson is all I have to say!! Thank GOD most people would never dream of doing such a thing, I catch hunters in my tree stand a couple of times a year, something that is Illegal and would never think about trying to hurt or kill one of them. Like I said thank God most people the thought would never cross their mind.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

Has the law changed? I thought it was only a felony if the person had a previous conviction of animal cruelty.

Under certain conditions it is legal to shoot a dog in VA.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

Thank you 2poppa. I dont have any pictures, much les s no how to post em on a web stie.

But thank you anyway.

RE: Cowardly Killer not Hunter - by Billy Nelms
 

By the way, I notice that tons of people bird hunt with dogs and don't have any of these types of problems. The difference is that bird hunters keep their dogs under control.

Thus it appears that there is no problem with dog hunting in general, only the type that release their dogs in places where they are likely or certain to get onto private property, make no apologies, and claim an entitlement to intrude on said private property.