RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

my post may have been confusing. i just want to make sure everyone knows that I'm a still hunter. I mad the statement "I am all for doing whatever tickles your fancy but being a still hunter" I meant that I am a still hunter

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

If you truly believe that Bigg then you know even less about hound hunting than I previously thought. For most it has very little to do with possessing a deer, it has to with the chase. The excitement of hearing a good dog work a trail and the anticipation of what will come. It is a change of pace and fun. There is more comradery, young kids love it as it keeps their interest a bit longer than sitting looking at a field. I am a die hard still hunter but I love hunting with dogs as well, you actually can be both.

Jimmy28303 I take people dog hunting often that have never done it and they love it, we always have good hunts and a great "hunting camp" atmosphere. If you hunt with good responsible dog hunters that are safe and knowledgeable it is a blast. Don't let someone with little knowledge and tons of predetermined prejudices towards all dog hunters tell you about something he obviouslydoesn't know much about(other than all of his bad experiences which we all hear about almost daily, well that and how to trap dogs, he can tell you about that). I bet you would be surprised how often dog hunters are unsuccessful, even with dogs it is not likeshooting fish in a barrel assome would have you believe.

The dog owners and club members I hunt with are as hard working asthe hardest workingstill huntersand far from lazy and I havelearned a lot from them that has helped me tremendously during bow season because simply put they know the woods and how the deer like to use them.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Hey VA
I wasn't trying to imply any hunters are for PETA OR HSUS but the fact is when thiings need reforming it is best handled by those involved like VDGIF,still hunters, dog hunters, landowners, etc. People with a stake in the matter. When things like this go to the "public" for reform lots of other groups get invovled and many with anti-hunting agendas, they can/do participate in anything that will limit or restrict hunting. That is all I was saying, I feel like with stronger enforcement of laws already on the books and possibly new regulations for registering and being held responsible for your dogs much of this could have been avoided. Now we have invited other parties into the mix that have there own agenda which does not include what's in the best interest for hunting/hunters.

Here is a perfect example of people trying to shut down hunting based on personal opinions rather than weighing all of the facts, I know it is not the same thing as the dog issue it just shows that all hunting is scrutinized and the situation could have very easily gone the other way without support from the ATA in this case.

http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/article/Bowhunt_Victory/

Hound hunting is a big part of VA's management of whitetails and yes some changes need to happen to better it for everyone in the future, I just hope hunters are the ones making the changes and not someone else.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Wait just a minute. I bet i put in more time training dogs(legally) than most anyone on this site does in stillhunting preperation. Don't get it confused, we are not lazy just because we wait out on the roads to shoot our deer.Dogs just don't get dumped out 1 time and are great dogs, it takes alot of practice and patience on mine and their part. I stillhunt during our bow and muzzleloader seasonsand stillhunting is far easier and more predictable than any doghunt to kill bucks. Ican kill3-4 bucks stillhunting to 1 buck doghunting every season. It is aboutthe sport and hearing the hounds run, becausewithout a great love of itmost wouldn't be taking care of dogs all year long.Doghunting ismore of a lifestyle than a 3 month hobby

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

ok, i was just curious. i didnt say it was wrong. i just said i didnt understand it.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

You may but the average stander doesn't put in squat. A work party or two clearing lanes or roads. Effort or preparation for the shooter is not a requirement. I don't see any sport in having something chase a deer to you and then unload on it as it runs by. No dogs is standard in more states than there are ones allowed.

Also the two previous posts both say it isn't that successful. How come a arguing point for the pro-hound hunter was that dogs are needed in the eastern portion of VA? Can't be both.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

As a dog hunter/bowhunter I can say that feel more in control when bowhunting, because I know deer behavior in their natural state. I have killed over 50 deer with dogs, so it's not like Im a rookie at it, dog hunting is pure luck for the most part. I know lots of fellows that have killed a big buck after being dropped from the truck within 10 minutes of the hunt on a peice of land they have never been on. My brother is a perfect example last yr. first trip to his new club on the stand for the first time and shot a wall hanger the first 20 minutes on stand. It was the first time he has hunted in 8 yrs!!!He got to the club at lunch time and got on the stand after lunch and they dropped the dogs and pow.It happens a lot. Now, how many times does a guy get that lucky in the bow woods?? You gotta know deer if you want to kill big bucks with a bow. I have killed some really big deer with dogs, and i can tell you for the most part it was pot luck. the deer I have killed still hunting or bowhunting, I had to know and understand big bucks....I know that big bucks will run certain ways when chase and will lay down with does and let the dogs get on them and all that stuff, but come guys, you know how many big deer are killed by using dogs and who kills....they couldn't find a buck rub on deer farm in Texas if they had too....Im just saying.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Forget the hunters!!! It's not about the hunters as much as it is about the dogs. I think that dog hunting is good for dogs. I am trying to train my Great Danes to chase deer. They are catching on pretty quickly. Can;t wait for this season!!!!

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

They don't say it isn't that successful just that it is not as easy as many describe and to be consistently successful killing deer with dogs you better know the deer in the area.

What you see as sport and I see as sport are just differing opinions, only difference isI'm not trying to force my opinion or demonize an entire type of huntingbasedonmy limited experience with a bad crowd.

You don't like it and that's fine but you sure go out of your way to lump every dog hunter together into one group, everything you just said about "the average stander" could be swapped out with "the average still huter" and the same could be said about them, you know the guys who never shoot, take their bows/guns out the week before season, don't scout, that logic is weak at best.

I honestly feel that if many of these dog "haters" hunted with a good crowd of dog hunters they might viewthis topicdifferently, I'm not sayingtheir opinions would change but they may be able to see it from our perspective better.

Anyway I'm pretty sure we should probably just agree to disagree as we could go round and round forever and I'm all typed out on this one. Good luck this season all.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

VA I didn't see your post at first but all I will add is this. First congratulations to your brother I'm sure he washappy about that hunt. And whileit can get frustrating seeing deer killed by others who may not put in quite the effortthat kind of luck is definitelynot limited to just dog hunting. Bow, blackpowder, rifle hunters get lucky every season and bag monsters they had never seen or knew were there. What's the difference? I hope to be on the "lucky" side this season at some point. I too have killed a truckload or two of deer dog hunting and admit some of them were outright luck, but many more were not. They were killed by knowing the woods, the travel patterns of the deer, bedding areas, escape routes and many other details that can all effect a chase/hunt. But againthere is a big difference between big club stand hunting dogs and small groups dropping dogs and cutting to the chase, I prefer the second choice and when you are on foot in a bigblock of woods trying to predict a deers path the wrong guess puts you out of the hunt faster than a rabbit gets humped. I'm not saying it's rocket science but strategy comes into play.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

I am not a dog hater. I love dogs, all dogs. I can understand using a dog will help you during the hunt. Dogs can stir up the thick woods and get the deer moving. But, while it sounds great to some, it is just not my cup of tea, so to speak... I prefer the peace and quiet of the woods, where it is just me and a deer in a one-on-one scenario.

Deer hunting - Just me alone vs the deer. No dogs.
Turkey hunting - ditto.
Rabbit hunting - Sure thing. I'd love to hunt rabbit with a pack of beagles.
Waterfowling - Sure thing. A black lab is the ultimate dog to have in a duck blind.
Coon hunting - It would be cool to try at night with dogs and watch them tree a raccoon.

Just my opinion... If people want to run dogs after deer, fine... have fun. It's just not my thing.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Most of the people I know that still hunt either set up near a feeding area, or put down food to draw the deer in......? Sounds real hard to me:eek:

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Putting down food is illegal, it's baiting. I could understand a dog hunter thinking any real hunting methods might be real hard.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Putting down food is illegal but huntingnear a bean or corn field is common practice and not really too difficult especially early season, I'm sure you understood his point but we see the path you chose with your response. Predictable.

Last year in VA opening weekend of bow, we hunted Saturday and Monday. Between 3 of us we saw almost 40 deer and went 3 for 3 with 2 bucks and a slickhead. Two weeks later 2 of us hunting see 20 deer and go 2 for 2 one of which being my bigggest bow buck to date.

Yeah, still hunting.......it's such a challenge.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Ahh, interesting to see some of the anti-doggers here showing their true colors. Just like the pro-gun control folks, they start out trying to sound reasonable, but if you press them long enough, you eventually find out their true feelings and agendas.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Well said NEW. I for one can be completely satisfied with being in the woods and listening to the hunt but never actually seeing the deer.......By the ways the Great Danes are doing great. They recovered acouple of sheds from the woods the other day.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

you have to keep in mind that bow and blackpowder hunters are also hunting the peak of the rut normally so its gonna be 5 times more likely to see those gaints.

I love dog hunting, but also love still hunting.. each has their plus. If dogs werent allowed, then im pretty sure you would see deer in the fields all year long and espically the bigger mature would continue to show theirselves. To me still hunting is easier than dog hunting. I can pretty much pick and shoose anything when still hunting. Dog hunting is majority luck. But again, I get to see plenty deer. I love hearing dogs run.. I also like the peace and quiet of nature. My kids are just getting started in hunting. Ones 6 and ones 4. Their attention spans arent the best right now, so still hunting usually makes them fall asleep lol, but they still enjoy seeing nature. Dog hunting keeps them wide awake and looking. Since its always some action, whether close by or far away you can hear it.

I would hate to see dog hunting gone, espically from a farmers point of view. But with houses everywhere and posted land around every corner, its gonna be hard to see it still around in 5 years. The biggest issues our hunt club has is dogs being hit in the roads by cars. The sad thing is, the dogs doing its job and having fun. Even though the hunters try to prevent it, it seems most cars just speed right up when they see hunters trying to catch their dogs along the roadside.

I saw where the state is trying to pass a certain distance alongside roads that you can hunt from. Thats fine, since I dont hunt anywhere near a road lol, but whats that gonna do when 15 hounds are trying to cross a highway. It wont be pretty

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Doghunting is much harder in a small crew of hunters when you jump a buck. They are unpredictable and you better know the crossings very well, if they even cross at theusual areas. We had a nice buck last year run past a truck and down the main grade road; we never expected that! Believe me thebucks are smarter than they get credit for, and we don't harvest a quarter of the bucks we jump as they usually throw the dogs off. Morestrategy is involved outsmarting a buckon a crossing than it ever will be fooling himcoming to food sources orchasing does- I know, iam a stillhunter too.

It's funny to me how some peopleare so against it, but really don't know anything about it[&:]......

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

I dont know how you do it..... Lets see your a master still hunter, anti dogger activist, in the woods (the way you tell it) to hear hounds running deer everyday all year long. with all the "hard work" you say you do to still hunt how do you have so much time to know so much about everything else??

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Again I have been misunderstood. I love dog hunting and I love bowhunting. I like bowhunting more, to me it's more of a total spiritual thing than anything else. It connects me to early man and our ancestry.I will say it again, I feel more in control when bowhunting, but that doesn't mean it' s easy. I know I can find deer and hunt them, but with dogs all that goes out the window. How many people do you know that only dog hunt scout?? All you need to know is where deer are bedding, and try to block it off the best you can,and drop the dogs in strategically, I know this well, I used to be the hunt master in my old club. Yes deer do run certain ways, but the easy part about it is the dogs, they are the key to it all. How many deer would you guys see/kill on a sat in your club without dogs just still hunting?? be honest. I know last year I saw 27 deer on one stand at my club, I also know I would not have seen a one if dogs were not dropped.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Location, location, location. Your results are typical of everywhere in VA? I used to have a hot spot too but it's not the norm.

Have to love one persons claimed response and that's accepted by everyone as normal and everyday. You should have no problem starting your own TV show. The pros don't do that good.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

I doubt everywhere in VA but I hunt from Lynchburg to the Eastern Shore with a half dozen spots in between with similiar results.So yes I agree, itis about location, I put my stands where the deer are and shoot them when they come by.Rocket science, not really.

I see you once again took the low road but I guess when that's all you know you can't help but go with it.When you say "claimedresponse"it reads like youare implyingmy post about last seasonmight be something other than the truth. I'm sorry you feel that way and sorry you lost your "hot spot", go to http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/and you can find 1000's of acres of "hot spots" if you know what your looking for that is.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Yawn. Let me go find my boots it's getting deep in here.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

It's been deep in here when the best excuse you have for not killing deer is "Those blasted dog hunters run all the deer away while I'm hunting, that's why I can't kill any deer." That tired excuse is probably the reason your yawning.

But hey, whatever you have to tell yourself. The tone of this thread is like every other thread you post on, you offerlittle to nothingin the form of how to remedy any of the problems just ignorant comments where you lump all dog hunters into one group or give tips on the best ways to trap dogs.

Keep fighting the good fight BB.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Still hunters kill 3x-4x as many deer as we dohunting thesame land. We don't let any stillhunters in the club anymore, as we are a doghunting club and plan on staying that way! 270 members and 90% of us are doghunters. It is a common occurence to ride around in our club and see 20+ deer in an hour- there is deer everywhere. They move naturally and the dogs don't affect them at all. I have been sitting in the stand while watching deer and see a pack of dogs running a deer 200 yds away and the deer feeding beside me don't hardly even notice; most deer get use to hearing hounds and the deer in the areaknow the dogspose no threat unless they are running them.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Awww come on Bryant1, you are just making that up about deer getting used to dogs. My cousin's brother-in-laws told him that he heard that all a hound needs to do is bark twice and it clears all the deer out of a 5 square mile area for the duration of hunting season [:o]

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

I'm serious. We call them slip-outs when deer that aren't getting run by the dogs come out of the woods.It doesn'treally happen much around here, except when a deer that is being run by dogs decides to runright by a deer that is bedded up.My dad stillhunts in theclub right across the highway from me andhe killeda nice buck last year that fedthe whole time a pack of dogs ran a deer in the same block of woods that they were in.

Ihave seen clubs in Georgia like you are describing, but they usually didn't get hounds run in the areas much. There aren't many areas they can move to around here that they won't encounter dogs- probably 90% of the hunters around here hunt with dogs. People run coons and hogs year around with dogs so the deer are just accustom to dogs barking.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

I was just being sarcastic dude. I mentioned here, or elsewhere, that i've seen plenty of occasions when dogs have crawled all over a small area and the deer there stayed put unless a dog literally stuck his nose up the deer's butt.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

I was in a club a few miles North of Bryant1 and we also ran dogs for Deer & Hogson 1700 acres next to San Pedro WMA (55,000 acres) and we killed our share of Deer & Hogs....

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Oh yea, We have ran a piece of about 50 acres, and a few hours later ill go still hunt the same piece and see/kill deer. anyone who hunts know that most of these excuses are B.S. FACT is most deer stay put unless a dog steps on them.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Well I hunt other things besides deer. When you have a gobbler or two in a field and the dogs run it off and the season ends at noon it's over for that day. I know you guys think you have an answer for it all and everyone is supposed to just accept dogs as a natural part of fall but not everyone agrees. That will become more clear as the survey process closes and the final solution is decided and acted on.


As far as what to do you guys all tell us the problem doesn't exist. Only in your eyes.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

I for one have never said problems don't exist but I do believe there are solutions to these problems and that communication between groups is vital. You clearly are not interested in that, all you do is regurgatate the same few sentences on every thread, offering very little as far as useful information. We know your agenda you hate dog hunting and want it gone, not regulated or controlled with existing laws, gone. It's clear to see. And what's even clearer is because of that you could care less about finding middle groundor having dialogue about solutions, you would rather badger dog huntersand anyone supporting it.

From your replies it appears that you barely read the posts, you justimmediately fire back with some anti-dog propaganda and contionue lumpingall dog hunters("you guys, typical doggers, the average stander", etc etc)in the same boat. You make stereotyped generalizations on every dog hunter based on your encounters with afew. I do think dog hunting is a part of falland I'm nottrying to force it on anyone, I just believe the solutions are there to be found but most people don't want to stop pissing and moaning long enough to look for them let alone find them.

All bickering aside, what would you do to fix dog hunting in VA if it were up to you BB?

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

That's a different approach New. I know what I have in mind, but let BB and Hokie go first.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

http://www.newsleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080814/SPORTS/80814005/1006

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

If it was my decision...........
Copy Georgia's rules on hounds. And move the whole structure of the seasons around. More for each group. Extend it longer. Go ahead and give the deer hunters a chase season as a compromise but keep the hounds out when it's not their season.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

I can recall one of the biggest deer taken at a former hunt club i was a member of was killed directly behind the dogpins!! He had been living there. Also, i have shot countless deer after the dogs had passed through.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

McCotter has been pretty objective in his articles. In the past he has done some informal surveys and stated what change he thought would be made.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

You know BB that doesn't sound like such a bad idea. i think that, that could clear up alot of the concerns/issues that many hunters (which we all share that common thread) may have. Also, there would need to be new rules and regulations implemented and monitored, which i think would be easier with clearly defined lines as to what season was in and out....

However, when you say a hound season, are saying that strictly hound hunting only. I still think there would be some conflicts due to still-hunters still hunting and dogs being able to impede their hunts. Do you propose that hound season is for hound hunting only, still hunting season (bow, muzzle, rifle)for still hunting only, and so on?

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

Possibly a still hunters season for a week or two then add in the hounds and extend it so they get their full time in. The still hunters get time without dogs, they're happy. Dog hunters get their full time. They get a chase season before to get the dogs ready. The bow & ML guys get no dogs in the woods. It's got to give some and it is one way or the other. This way all get their time and the dog hunters get a chase season for the delayed start. Again there is no perfect solution to this mess.

Everyone need to realize several things. Nothing is going to make everyone happy. There is going to be some give and it's going to come out of the rights the dog hunters have now. If this gets out of the control of the hunting community everyone stands to lose but the hound guys stand to lose the most. I can tell you from what I have knowledge of RTR is going to go one way or the other. May not be right now but it's days are limited. A wise person would take/make a compromise instead of the possibility of nothing later. The SAC members to me is a big dissappointment and all the hound hunters will see that in time and what harm they did by not being realistic. The whole objective should be to come away with losing as little as you can and taking as much as you can. SAC is still in the denial stage. When I say SAC the majority of SAC is hound hunters. Look at the RTR vote. The vote went hound vs others. By not adressing the problems they're sending the message they can't be dealt with. So next it will go to those who will make the decision for them. The problem exists and it's going to be fixed. SAC is still trying to say the problem isn't real and it's stalled at that point. So they can't go to the next step of correcting it and getting something in return. That's a mistake on their part and it's going to cost them in the end.

RE: Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform
 

bb, thats a well thought out plan. why didn't you start preaching that from the start. it wouldn't have met the resistance that the leghold plan did. you buy the gas and make the trip to the florida panhandle. i'll buy your lic. we'll hunt a 3 day weekend. if you don't have a blast running dogs with us, i'll buy your gas home. you'll have to follow in my footsteps but i promise you, you'll have a blast, maybe even get to blast and you'll be as tired as you ever been. but you'll have a great time if you let yourself. you can see some great woods and get to see that dog hunting ain't as easy as you think and it can be done without interfering with other peoples hunt. pm me if your interested.....tony