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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
I wonder why they would strongly oppose "Requires the revocation of the hunting license for the current and the next hunting seasons as well as the forfeiture of the firearm or bow and arrow of any person who is convicted of carrying such weapons on another person's property while he is retrieving his hunting dogs". What could this mean? Does this mean they support carrying weapons while simply retrieving thier dogs?
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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
That is one I intend on asking about. It is already against the law to do that but because of lax penalties that law is often blown off, which in my mind leads to a lot of problems between land owners and clubsbecause without a weapon a dog hunter is not trespassing if he is on foot retrieving his dogs on private property however with a weapon in hand he is trespassing and he knows it and should be held accountable. Fear of losing your hunting license would stop a lot of these cases instantly, I believe it would anyway.
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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
Thanks for doing the leg work New! Interesting reading.
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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
ORIGINAL: Killer_Primate I wonder why they would strongly oppose "Requires the revocation of the hunting license for the current and the next hunting seasons as well as the forfeiture of the firearm or bow and arrow of any person who is convicted of carrying such weapons on another person's property while he is retrieving his hunting dogs". What could this mean? Does this mean they support carrying weapons while simply retrieving thier dogs? They could just change it to this. "Requires the revocation of the hunting license for the current and the next hunting seasons as well as the forfeiture of the firearm or bow and arrow of any person who is convicted of carrying such weapons on another person's property" |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
ORIGINAL: rick64 ORIGINAL: Killer_Primate I wonder why they would strongly oppose "Requires the revocation of the hunting license for the current and the next hunting seasons as well as the forfeiture of the firearm or bow and arrow of any person who is convicted of carrying such weapons on another person's property while he is retrieving his hunting dogs". What could this mean? Does this mean they support carrying weapons while simply retrieving thier dogs? |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
OK I see what you saying, for the penalty to be the same they would have to amend the other laws also.
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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
The law already states to leave your weapon in the truck and you may not drive on someone elses property, the change in the law is the severity of the penalties. Which would be fine if it applied to all hunters hunting illegally, but they are singling out hound hunters only. Thats what makes this a bad bill.
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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
But hound hunters have special privileges, and with those special privileges, should come special repercussions. If you don’t want special repercussions, give up the privileges.
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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
original: rick64 OK I see what you saying, for the penalty to be the same they would have to amend the other laws also. |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
ORIGINAL: NEW61375 While I agree anyone trespassing with a firearm should face similiar penalties to clarify a little this law is already on the books and applies specifically to dog hunters, actually it helps dog huntersbecause it givesthem theright toretrieve dogs on foot andunarmed on private property. You and I can not do the same without hunting dogs,the only thing changing appears to be the penalties fornot following the "unarmed" stipulation of the law. For the right to"legally" trespass they should be able to follow that onestipulation. ORIGINAL: Hokieman The law already states to leave your weapon in the truck and you may not drive on someone elses property, the change in the law is the severity of the penalties. Which would be fine if it applied to all hunters hunting illegally, but they are singling out hound hunters only. Thats what makes this a bad bill. So with the right/privalege comes rules. If the rules that govern the privalegearebroken or are violated there will and should be penalties. And if those rules aredisregarded on a large scale over a long period of timethen the penalties should be stiffened and enforcedto ensure compliance. It is a privalege thatno other hunter or group of huntershave, follow the rules and the penalties never even come into play. I can befined and ticketed for a number of offenses if I even step footon postedor unpostedprivate property armed or unarmed. |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
That makes sense to me, in return for the privilege of being able to retrieve their dogs the penalty should be more severe for breaking the law.[/align][/align]I think we all agree, ifall Conservation Officers were more aggressive with the laws that are already on the books, this wouldn't be as big an issue. [/align] |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
ORIGINAL: rick64 That makes sense to me, in return for the privilege of being able to retrieve their dogs the penalty should be more severe for breaking the law. [/align] [/align]I think we all agree, ifall Conservation Officers were more aggressive with the laws that are already on the books, this wouldn't be as big an issue. [/align] |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
Opposition when SB 884was introduce last year showed the attitude of allot of dog hunters.[/align][/align]http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?071+ful+SB884[/align]
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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
That passed andwas in the(07'-08') regs along with the rest of thedog retrieval regulation.
From VDGIF: Hunting With Dogs [ul][*]Dogs may be used to pursue wild birds and animals during hunting seasons where not prohibited.[*]When the chase begins on other lands, fox hunters and coon hunters may follow their dogs on prohibited lands, and hunters of all other game, when the chase begins on other lands, may go upon prohibited lands to retrieve their dogs, but may not carry firearms or archery tackle on their persons or hunt any game while thereon. The use of vehicles to retrieve dogs on prohibited lands shall be allowed only with the permission of the landowner or his agent. Any person who goes on prohibited lands to retrieve his dogs and who willfully refuses to identify himself when requested by the landowner or his agent to do so is guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. [/ul] Again I'm not sure why it would be opposed, if you are in the right and following the letter of the law then why wouldnt you say if asked"Hey my name is John Doe and I'm trying to catch a dog I tracked over here sir or maam." If a problem arose after that call the game warden or local police. Not rocket science here. |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
ORIGINAL: NEW61375 That passed andwas in the(07'-08') regs along with the rest of thedog retrieval regulation. From VDGIF: Hunting With Dogs [ul][*]Dogs may be used to pursue wild birds and animals during hunting seasons where not prohibited.[*]When the chase begins on other lands, fox hunters and coon hunters may follow their dogs on prohibited lands, and hunters of all other game, when the chase begins on other lands, may go upon prohibited lands to retrieve their dogs, but may not carry firearms or archery tackle on their persons or hunt any game while thereon. The use of vehicles to retrieve dogs on prohibited lands shall be allowed only with the permission of the landowner or his agent. Any person who goes on prohibited lands to retrieve his dogs and who willfully refuses to identify himself when requested by the landowner or his agent to do so is guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. [/ul] Again I'm not sure why it would be opposed, if you are in the right and following the letter of the law then why wouldnt you say if asked"Hey my name is John Doe and I'm trying to catch a dog I tracked over here sir or maam." If a problem arose after that call the game warden or local police. Not rocket science here. |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
I can see that happening. Usually the pavement side of the ditch is still public right of way but in an area not like that(no ditch)I would probably case the gun just to be safe and I would not enter private drives or driveways and park. Use thepublic road orright of way or bothand put yoursafety hazards on, best thig I can think of,
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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
New,
You seem like a good guy, who is capable of thinking things through. I've really enjoyed reading some of your thoughts and you've given me hope that hunters can come together on some of these tough issues. But at this point, I think you're wasting your time with this guy. All of his responses are written as questions, or passive statements at best. Even his last statement could be written as a question, which could have two meanings. Later he'll argue which ever way he can, so that you can't pick it apart as easy. Was it written poorly or creatively? Either way, it could suggest that dog hunters do have to worry. And some of the areas that should and does worry them is when they have to pick up a dog on or near private property that is posted. The other way his last post could be interpreted is “what hunter would have to worry about that? There is nothing wrong with picking up a dog with a gun in your truck.” It was even edited, and is still written poorly. He’s either really unintelligent, or is talking in circles. Neither of which, you should waste any time on. This reminds me of a saying; something about arguing with someone, and others not being able to tell who is who... Know what I mean? |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
I get bored at work and can't resist posting but I follow what you are saying. I edited mine above too, I just can't help it.;):D
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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
ORIGINAL: Killer_Primate New, You seem like a good guy, who is capable of thinking things through. I've really enjoyed reading some of your thoughts and you've given me hope that hunters can come together on some of these tough issues. But at this point, I think you're wasting your time with this guy. All of his responses are written as questions, or passive statements at best. Even his last statement could be written as a question, which could have two meanings. Later he'll argue which ever way he can, so that you can't pick it apart as easy. Was it written poorly or creatively? Either way, it could suggest that dog hunters do have to worry. And some of the areas that should and does worry them is when they have to pick up a dog on or near private property that is posted. The other way his last post could be interpreted is “what hunter would have to worry about that? There is nothing wrong with picking up a dog with a gun in your truck.” It was even edited, and is still written poorly. He’s either really unintelligent, or is talking in circles. Neither of which, you should waste any time on. This reminds me of a saying; something about arguing with someone, and others not being able to tell who is who... Know what I mean? |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
Here you go.............
HB 1456 Hunting; persons with bow and arrow or crossbow may hunt on Sundays. Summary as introduced: Hunting with bow and arrow or crossbow. Allows persons who hunt with a bow and arrow or crossbow to hunt on private lands on Sundays. VHDA Strongly Opposes any form of Sunday hunting. This bill is merely an attempt to put the camel's nose under the tent. Need to keep an eye on our new anti-hunting group. http://vahda.org/legislation.htm |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
Nichols' call for Sunday bow hunting defeated[/align]By LILLIAN KAFKA[/align][email protected][/align]Friday, January 25, 2008[/align]
RICHMOND -- A House of Delegates subcommittee killed a Prince William County delegate's attempt to allow bow hunting on Sundays after hearing protests from farm and agricultural lobbyists. "The reasons for [opposition] begin with faith, and they expand to those people such as horse riders who enjoy the woods on Sundays," said Wilmer Stoneman III, a lobbyist for the Farm Bureau of Virginia. Del. Paul F. Nichols, D-Occoquan, called the Sunday prohibition of hunting on private property "outdated." He said he proposed the idea at the request of bow hunters who work Monday through Saturday. His bill, HB 1456, would have allowed bow hunting on Sundays on private property for only two years. Before he heard the request, the delegate from suburban Washington, D.C., said he didn't even know Virginia prohibited hunting on Sundays. "We've had this ongoing discussion about hunting on Sundays," said R. Lee Ware, R-Powhatan, chairman of the subcommittee. He joked and asked Nichols, "Boy, why'd you bring this bill to this committee?" Katie Kyger Frazier, lobbyist for the Virginia Agribusiness Council, said the only day during hunting season that horse riders can ride in the woods without fear of coming into crossfire is Sundays. [/align] |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
ORIGINAL: Bigg~BirddVA Here you go............. HB 1456 Hunting; persons with bow and arrow or crossbow may hunt on Sundays. Summary as introduced: Hunting with bow and arrow or crossbow. Allows persons who hunt with a bow and arrow or crossbow to hunt on private lands on Sundays. VHDA Strongly Opposes any form of Sunday hunting. This bill is merely an attempt to put the camel's nose under the tent. Need to keep an eye on our new anti-hunting group. http://vahda.org/legislation.htm |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
ORIGINAL: Hokieman ORIGINAL: Bigg~BirddVA Here you go............. HB 1456 Hunting; persons with bow and arrow or crossbow may hunt on Sundays. Summary as introduced: Hunting with bow and arrow or crossbow. Allows persons who hunt with a bow and arrow or crossbow to hunt on private lands on Sundays. VHDA Strongly Opposes any form of Sunday hunting. This bill is merely an attempt to put the camel's nose under the tent. Need to keep an eye on our new anti-hunting group. http://vahda.org/legislation.htm Thanks, KP P.S. I don’t really expect you to answer, given the history of this thread… |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
:eek:
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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
Too bad I didn't get to "choosed" for myself...
That pretty much says it all! |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
When are you guys going to learn. Dog hunters and their groups are the most arrogant, selfish, demanding group of @#$ holes alive!! It's alway about them, always about their rights and no one else's. Selfish to the end, if not this year, someday soon all hunting will be banned because of these idiots and their unwillingness to compromise on any issue. When you see your hunting buddies remind them to withdraw all support from any dog alliance group. Instead, put your effort towards hunting groups who are responsible and capable of compromise for the good of all. This includes those who need Sunday huntng for themselves and their families. Many young hunters may not be able to hunt because Dad or Mom work on Saturdays. Sunday hunting is done in all central and western states without any harmful effects. To keep the ban in place is just asanine. To refuse to compromise is asanine as well. So goes the asses and idiots.
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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
ORIGINAL: reswire When are you guys going to learn. Dog hunters and their groups are the most arrogant, selfish, demanding group of @#$ holes alive!! It's alway about them, always about their rights and no one else's. Selfish to the end, if not this year, someday soon all hunting will be banned because of these idiots and their unwillingness to compromise on any issue. When you see your hunting buddies remind them to withdraw all support from any dog alliance group. Instead, put your effort towards hunting groups who are responsible and capable of compromise for the good of all. This includes those who need Sunday huntng for themselves and their families. Many young hunters may not be able to hunt because Dad or Mom work on Saturdays. Sunday hunting is done in all central and western states without any harmful effects. To keep the ban in place is just asanine. To refuse to compromise is asanine as well. So goes the asses and idiots. |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
I've read this entire thread tonight with great interest and couldn't resist giving my 2 or 3 cents.
The statement that "A dog can't READ" is the whole problem with dog deer hunting. If they could read and they stopped at the Dog Hunting Club line without going onto other's property there would be no problems, so I agree with the land owners who complain. I don't understand why a hunting "Organization" would be against bowhunting on private land on Sunday. That just makes them as bad as P.E.T.A. or the other ANTI-HUNTING groups out there. Where I live and hunt, before the ban of running dogs for deer, it was a common practice for the dogs to be let loose on one property that the doggers didn't have permission to be on in the first place. They would then either run the deer to the doggers property or who knows where, and it was that very thing that got the most complaints. It was also the very thing that got alot of deer dogs shot. Think about it like this: A guy has maybe a couple hundered acres to hunt. He wants to kill a nice buck so he passes up the small ones. Then one day he sees a 6 point that he's seen numerous times and has let walk on more than one occasion, and he let's it walk again. Then here comes a pack of hounds and they get after the deer he was hoping to take in the FUTURE, and run it off the property and he hears shots 2 or 3 properties over. Then when he gets finished hunting for the day and goes to the store,therein the back of someones truck is the deer he's been passing on all season. Talk about being pissed. You can bet money the next time a pack of hounds come through, guess what, he's hunting dogs. And the doggers wonder why someone would shoot their dogs. Because in his eyes they are now STRAYS. Not to mention he remembers the earlier incident. A biologist once told me the only canines that were supposed to be in the woods are Coyotes, Foxes, and Wolves. PERIOD! If I were a quail hunter I wouldn't want those dogs included in your "ORG.". It's a whole different kind of hunting. Personally,I don't have a problem with hunting deer with dogs...as long as you can keep them on your land 100% of the time...Until then I'm totally against it. |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
ORIGINAL: Hickernut I've read this entire thread tonight with great interest and couldn't resist giving my 2 or 3 cents. The statement that "A dog can't READ" is the whole problem with dog deer hunting. If they could read and they stopped at the Dog Hunting Club line without going onto other's property there would be no problems, so I agree with the land owners who complain. I don't understand why a hunting "Organization" would be against bowhunting on private land on Sunday. That just makes them as bad as P.E.T.A. or the other ANTI-HUNTING groups out there. Where I live and hunt, before the ban of running dogs for deer, it was a common practice for the dogs to be let loose on one property that the doggers didn't have permission to be on in the first place. They would then either run the deer to the doggers property or who knows where, and it was that very thing that got the most complaints. It was also the very thing that got alot of deer dogs shot. Think about it like this: A guy has maybe a couple hundered acres to hunt. He wants to kill a nice buck so he passes up the small ones. Then one day he sees a 6 point that he's seen numerous times and has let walk on more than one occasion, and he let's it walk again. Then here comes a pack of hounds and they get after the deer he was hoping to take in the FUTURE, and run it off the property and he hears shots 2 or 3 properties over. Then when he gets finished hunting for the day and goes to the store,therein the back of someones truck is the deer he's been passing on all season. Talk about being pissed. You can bet money the next time a pack of hounds come through, guess what, he's hunting dogs. And the doggers wonder why someone would shoot their dogs. Because in his eyes they are now STRAYS. Not to mention he remembers the earlier incident. A biologist once told me the only canines that were supposed to be in the woods are Coyotes, Foxes, and Wolves. PERIOD! If I were a quail hunter I wouldn't want those dogs included in your "ORG.". It's a whole different kind of hunting. Personally,I don't have a problem with hunting deer with dogs...as long as you can keep them on your land 100% of the time...Until then I'm totally against it. |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
ORIGINAL: Hokieman I have read and understand your point, However the dog clubs that did this was wrong flat out, the person who shot the dogs were more wrong flat out. The deer you feed or pass up on your land is free roaming which means you or I don't own them they belong to the Commonwealth of Virginia. This doesn't mean a dog hunting club has the right to turn their dogs out on posted land or any land they don't have permission. two wrongs don't make a right. Dog hunting clubs and landowners need to better communicate and respect each other. |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
ORIGINAL: Hokieman I have read and understand your point, However the dog clubs that did this was wrong flat out, the person who shot the dogs were more wrong flat out. The deer you feed or pass up on your land is free roaming which means you or I don't own them they belong to the Commonwealth of Virginia. This doesn't mean a dog hunting club has the right to turn their dogs out on posted land or any land they don't have permission. two wrongs don't make a right. Dog hunting clubs and landowners need to better communicate and respect each other. As far as communication between clubs and landowners...what part of No Trespassing or NO HUNTING is hard to understand? The dog hunters communicate the fact that they have NO RESPECT for private property by sending their dogs across the land...and the landowner communicates that HE'S FED UP and will do whatever it takes to stop it. |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
Well Guys, I give up and Hokie Dokie boy wins!! I'm going to trade deer hunting for trapping. Thanks for the suggestion, (whomever you are). I've got two dozen traps in the shed that haven't been used in 20 years. I do have alot of foxes on my farm, so what the hell.
If I recall how to do it, it goes something like this. Dig a small hole 8 inches deep, place alpo or some other yummy canine food in the hole and alllll arooouuund it. Spary it down with deer urine (cover scent), and wait for the foxes. (Opps, nearly forgot the placement of leg hold or neck snap traps. Gee I hope I catch quite a few. I'll just post my property with trapping signs, (the kind dog hunters can read if there is such a thing), and let the crying begin. The best part of all, it's legal. I can even trap on Sundays!!! Gee now that's a touchy subject ain't it? I'll just paws awhile when I check my traps. Can't wait till next season!! |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
Someone on another site said a lure called "WidowMaker" will draw in every dog within miles. I mean fox. Got to get used to that. # 1 1/2 coil spring jump or # 2 should work. I used to trap and caught a few foxes in my day. Caught a dog a time or two as well. Dog gone it! LOL
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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
Big Bird,
We need to get together and go trapping some time. At least we can do that on Sundays and still enjoy the other six days as well. (LOL) I've trapped a many fox in my time, I'll try the oversized version now I guess. Coyotes are becoming a threat. Maybe we can cut them off before they become a problem? Don't they put out poison for those out west? I believe on Sundays too? Coyotes that is. Coyotes can't read signs either. If they could, I'd just put up signs and keep them off I guess. (KIR) |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
Widow Maker has been around for years and it is good stuff.. However mixing fox trapping and Coyotes are two different things. Remember foxes #1.5s you don't want to break the leg just hold it. 1.5s won't hold a medium to larger coyote but 2s should... If you have bigger coyotes go with 2.5s but consider "offsets" they don't snap the leg bones so bad. There are a lot of coyote lures out there ifthats what your setting for, you will see them under titles like canine baits/lures. May want to try a few sets of both see what works best for ya.
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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
I wouldn't recommend trapping anyones dogs, you are asking for some serious problems and in most cases it is not the dogs to blame if you are having issues with dog hunters. There are better ways to remedy problems than intentionally breaking the law (which is what you would be doing if you set out to trap someones dogs) even if you tryto disguise it as something else you are stooping pretty low and breaking the law.
Reswire I noticed your post on the Sunday hunting thread in regards to if there is a group that supports Sunday hunting, if you find anything let us know I am interested in the history of the votes on it and what kind of representation hunters for Sunday hunting have. I know ButchA has some info on it somaybe he could chime in. |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
Lets see I've heard 30+ years of "they're running foxes" when they were actually deer hounds. So I guess they can hear a few years of "I'm trapping foxes". We learned from them. When they quit letting deer hounds run out of season they won't have to worry about such things.
Like they say "prove it". |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
You guys are going to have some serious problems on your hands when you catch someone's dogs and they find out. Just a fair warning before it escalates into something you can't handle. You should take your concerns to the state of Virginia. Your going to catch the wrong person's dog and I hate to see the outcome- it's just a fair warning, you need to think it through before you do it.
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RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
Bryant1
How can one prove someone wasn't trapping foxes or coyotes? And how do you suggest setting a trap for a fox or coyote that a dog won't get into? My suggestion would be for the dog owner to ensure that his dog didn't go onto someone elses property. |
RE: Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance
I am telling you this so you wont get yourbutt whipped or worse-killed. Remeber there are alot of them and 1 of you, but good for you; take it out on the dog that will show them-
I'm outta this post it hasn't gone anywheresince the firstpage anyway.... |
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