Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

I read in the Sunday paper where they are having a hearing coming up on possible changes to wildlife regulations. They go out into the communities each year to get input from the citizens.

One thing I noticed they were to consider is a decrease in the number of bucks a person can kill. Now it is 3, but in order to do that you have to kill at least one with a bow.

If they are trying to implement changes to allow for bucks for bigger racks, is this really going to help? I did kill 3 this year, but all 3 were good bucks. I don't really think the number of hunters that kill 3 is all that great, though.

I would be more in favor of requiring some type of point restriction like some other states have. Like maybe at least 3 or 4 on a side.

I would also consider making the second week of rifle season does only.

Another would be to require anyone shooting a button buck to have to check it in as a buck and not an "antlerless deer" if they haven't already checked in a buck.

Maybe a point system where a hunter could kill more deer if he killed does instead of bucks so maybe the meat hunters would be encouraged to kill does instead of small bucks.

In my county, the doe harvest is only slightly less than the buck harvest, so I think we have a pretty good balance in the deer herd.

Maybe you don't even care about bigger racks. What are your ideas?

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

i have a problem with the way OK does deer season. While you shoot only mature bucks,most hunters shoot anything with horns. The general rule is thatif it has visible antlers itis dead, including spikes.That, coupled with the rampant poaching and spotlighting, takes a horrible toll on the buck population.

i've shot my share of does and wish that OK would go to the "earn a buck" rule: Killed a buck with agood rack this year for the first time in many years. Wish that OK would require a hunter tocheck a doe beforehe isallowed to shoot a buck.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

I think antler size restrictions could work and I do believe decreaseing the # of bucks taken will work. If your a bow hunter and see a 6 pt in range, if you have 3 tags, you might take it because it is a buck w/in range and you have 2 other tags to get your 'trophy'. If you only have 2 tags, you might pass on it becase you dont want to 'waste' a tag on a small deer.

I do like to take deer w/ large antlers but in the area i hunt, there are guys that shoot anything w/ horns. This makes big deer far and few between.

If the state is wanting more does harvested, (1) they could also increase the fee for the buck tag (double or more). How many people would pay the extra? (2) buck only days during the middle of the week, excludeing thanksgiving day. (3) first week of season does only, second week either and implement #2.

I also think the idea of button buck is just that - buck. Sorry, you just lost your buck tag dude. On the flip side, that may decrease the number of does taken on the idea of not wanting to screw up the sex identification. also an increase of wanton waste.

I dont think there is any clear way to increase the size of the animals. mischief will go on. but this may be the way to start.

hey, new thought here, what about buying deer tags that can be used all season, regardless of take method?

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

alsgar, what town are you near? I am about 25 miles SW of Enid. As far as poaching, I don't really see much of it here. It's really almost a thing of the past.

On the button buck issue, I would make a hunter check it as a buck if they hadn't already checked a buck. If they already checked in a buck, I would not penalize them for then bringing in a button buck.

The idea of lowering the buck limit from 3 to 2 in my opinion would not change the harvest that much. I don't know a lot of people who shoot 3 bucks. I think the bulk of bucks are shot by people hunting muzzleloader and rifle season and killing 2 bucks.

Raising the price per tag on bucks might not be a bad idea or any other incentive to encourage not shooting small bucks. However someone like me with a lifetime lisence doesn't really care what the price of tags are.

A lot of people want to kill a "buck" because it sounds better than saying you shot a doe. In my experience, young bucks are the easiest deer to kill. And for eating, we all know you can't beat a doe.

How about the possibility of allowing someone the option of killing a doe on a buck tag?

I also agree with making a deer tag universal for each hunting method, but the State won't do that. It would cost them money. Every tag not filled is money in the State's pocket.

I'm leaning toward favoring an antler point restriction. Maybe 3 on the main beam at least on one side. I've seen a few deer around here without brow tines, so I don't think I would count the brow tine.

The problem I see with that is that I have seen a lot of really nice basket racked 8 points with beautifully shaped racks that would be great bucks in a couple of years, so those deer would be killed in place of a crappy spike or a 6 point with an inferior rack.

I was never really in favor of adding an extra week to the rifle season and I think that just adds to more small bucks being killed.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

I'd be in favor of a point restriction. We lease property and we only take more mature bucks. We actually killed 3 does and only one buck so far this year. I personally passed up around 20 different bucks this season. I did see 3 shooter bucks, but none gave me an opportunity with my bow. If we want meat for the freezer, we shoot does. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see a point restriction of 4 on one side enacted for the state. There is alot of public ground that gets hit pretty hard around my home and I'd love to see less small bucks taken off of it.

On the other hand, I don't think I'd be in favor of an earn a buck policy. Many times, I don't shoot does till close to the end of the season. In my area, I want all the does I can untill after the rut winds down to increase the possibility of bucks coming in to check them. I don't want to kill the doe that I've been seeing regularly from my stand incase she may have come in and brought that buck right by me. I don't want to have to feel as though I have to kill the doe first. I don't know though, it may throw the herd ratioout of whack. Not that it isn't already out of whack in my area.[:'(]

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

So thiswould be around the Ames area?

I am in Enid.

Small world huh?

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

isatarek,

i live near Lawton. There is some poaching in Comanche county.Thepoaching becomes more serious the farther east and south you go. In Garvin countythere is a lot of poaching.In far SE OK poaching seems to be a way of life; so much so that there is no special antlerless season there.

Itotally agree with an antler restriction. A Minimum of four points onone side would do it. There is such a restriction on elk-at least five points on one side.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

okietree, you got it. I live about 4 miles SE of Ames and my property is 1 1/2 miles west of town.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

I grew up In Lawton....and I am glad I finally got out of there. I agree with the point restriction. I am more inclined to have at least 3 points on at least one main beam. I dont think that earning your buck would help, I think it would be highly detrimental to the herds. I do agree that any button buck should be counted as a buck.

I wish there was a better way to help out the public hunting areas. They get hit extremely hard and I wish there was a better way to hunt the areas. Dont get me wrong I enjoy being away from work and home being out in the woods. But some action everynow and then sure would be nice. I think next year I am going to look into a lease if there is anyone needing someone to go in with.

Anyone know of any good public spots??

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

Is anyone planning on attending the meetings. I thought I had read on the departments site that sportsmen could attend.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

That is the whole point of the meetings...to get guys like us to attend and provide imput.

If we stop/dont show up, the dept could stop the meetings and just do whatever w/o giving us much say.

I went to one several yrs ago and they handed out all the proposals, explained them, allowed comments to be made, allowed you to write comments on paper and submit them, and said thanks for coming. I cant say Ive seen any thing become of it, but it at least allowed us sportmen to have our say. Thats been about 6 yrs ago and they were talking buck restrictions then. Its been talked about every yr since too. Ill be surprised if they ever do anything.

I am planning on going to the one here.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

I will have to check the dates and see if I can make the meeting here in OKC

Thanks

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

I am against the antler point restrictions because they are essentially 'high-grading' the younger deer. Let's say that the point restrictions will not let us harvest any deer with less than 3 points on either side. How does that protect all younger deer? It doesn't, it just takes out the best of the young deer. Granted, studies have shown that a spike can turn into a trophy when mature as well, but what about that 1.5 year old 12 point? Isthe spikegoing to get bigger than him? He will if the 12 point gets shot when he is a yearling.

On the other hand, what happens when there is an old buck that doesn't meet the antler point restriction requirements? The answer is...he is out there breeding does and passing his genes on! ...couple this with shooting the better bucks when they are younger and you are not improving the quality of the deer in OK, but, in effect, you are reducing the quality of the deer you see...and take.

What I would suggest is raising the price on a 'regular' buck tag to around $35-$40 and coming up with a 'mature' buck tag that sells for much less...say $7-$10. Those having a 'regular' buck tag can still shoot a trophy if the opportunity presents itself, but the hunters holding a 'mature' buck tag must have the deer they harvest meet certain requirements to be legal. These requirements would be that the deer must be (examples only)at least 4.5 years old, have antler base measurements >4 inches (there is a positive correlation between age and this meaurement) and have a certain dressed body weight that varies with the location from which the deer was harvested (SE Oklahoma deer are sometimes HALF the size of deer in other parts of the state). Having all or a combination of any 2 of these standards for being legal as requirements would probably suffice.

I just feel that the long-term effects of a antler-point restriction as a way to protect yearling deer would have adverse results in the long run. If you really want people to change the way they harvest, give them an incentive via their pocketbook and they will respond. If not, they are paying for that little buck and the Wildlife Department is getting some much-needed, additionalrevenue.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

"What I would suggest is raising the price on a 'regular' buck tag to around $35-$40 and coming up with a 'mature' buck tag that sells for much less...say $7-$10." Those having a 'regular' buck tag can still shoot a trophy if the opportunity presents itself, but the hunters holding a 'mature' buck tag must have the deer they harvest meet certain requirements to be legal. These requirements would be that the deer must be (examples only)at least 4.5 years old, have antler base measurements >4 inches (there is a positive correlation between age and this meaurement) and have a certain dressed body weight that varies with the location from which the deer was harvested (SE Oklahoma deer are sometimes HALF the size of deer in other parts of the state). Having all or a combination of any 2 of these standards for being legal as requirements would probably suffice."


The future of hunting in OK is to get more young folks involved in the sport. Dramatically raising the price of tags is guaranteed to have the opposite effect.Your proposal is much too complicated to administer.

You are opposed to minimum antler requirements. Yes, there are some olderbucks with inferior antlers breeding does. But there are not enough of them to matter. I am in agreement with the DNR about lowering the number of bucks killedto two. That is probably what will happen. Yes, there is a dearth of public land to hunt in OK. Get after your state representative anddemand that some of the hundreds of millions in budget surplus be used to purchase land for hunting and other recreational use.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

I can agree with you to a point. Some good young bucks will be killed before they reach maturity, but many, many more that would have been killed before they reach maturity will survive. This is what we're trying to achieve. A better overall quality deer herd with more mature bucks and a closer buck to doe ratio. I don't think that it would be very feasible to expect most hunters, especially young hunters, to be able to determine the age of a deer on the hoof much less the circumference of the antler base. What happens if someone with a "mature buck tag" shoots a buck that doesn't meet these requirements? In my opinion, it's too confusing.

A simple antler restriction of 4 on one side would do wonders for the amount of mature bucks in the herd. If people want meat, they'll start killing does and not young bucks. That's what needs to happen if you ask me.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

I understand that, I just forgot to address it. I would suggest a lower-priced buck tag without theharvest restrictions for the youth...say the same price as the mature buck tag until they are about 16-18. That would be cheaper than 'they' are paying now (I am sure their parents are the ones paying in most cases).

We'll see how it affects the deer herd ifthis type ofantler restrictionis implemented. My educated opinion is that it will have a positive effect upon recruitment of younger deer into the older age classes, but over a period of several years, the quality of antlered deer will begin to decline. If people are going to be shooting bucks, I would rather they be non-selective in the way that they do it instead of being forced totake the best out.

I know of some hunting clubs that have implementeda similartypeof management for years and they are paying for it now. One had an antler restriction of 8-points and, I believe it was, a 16-inch spread since the 70's, now they have a bunch of mature, 15-inch, 7-pointers running around. Doesn't sound like something I want on my hunting grounds.

If the antler point restriction is implemented, people will see the initial positive effects and be oblivious to the long term problems that it will be causing. This will make it harder than heck to change when this negative trend begins to show up in the herd and by the time it has become a visible-enough problem for them to want to make a change, it may be beyond 'easy' repair by a change in policy.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

That is why they have a choice in the type of tag that is purchased, if they do not want to be restricted on the type of buck they shoot, then they pay for the 'non-restricted' tag. If they choose to be a part of the improvement efforts for deer hunting in OK, then they can purchase the mature buck tag and follow the harvest guidelines. If they shoot a deer that does not meet the guidelines, then they can pay the difference between the tag value at the check station...not a fine or violation, just making up the difference.

This is really not that complicated, especially compared to some regulations that are already in place.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

They asked my dad to be on the board a couple years ago. I don't think the state did one thing that was recomended by the board for the following season. Oklahoma could have lots of big bucks running around if they would do it right. Lets face it though it's all about tag sales folks. I can't tell you how many deer I passed up this year. Have video of some real nice bucks less than 20 yards. I let them pass with hopes they survive gun season to be around next year. I drew my bow for the first time lastWednesday and shot a doe for the freezer.Special buck tags aren't going to work and point restrictions won't either. My 11 year old daughter got her first deer with a bow a couple weeks ago. It was a button buck. Are you going to penalize her for that? That won't help grow the sport for our kids. It should be a happy time for them whatever they shoot. The only way for our state to get bigger bucks is for everyone to pass up the smaller ones. I think what they should do is go to 2 bucks and give us more doe tags.

MC

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

The question I have, though is, how is going to 2 bucks going to help when the vast majority of bucks are killed in rifle season with a relatively few number of people who actually kill 3.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

It wont help. The only way it will help is with the people who hunt all three seasons. I don't know if there is a way to fix that problem unless you do a antler restriction for rifle season. It's a known fact people who have no clue grab a gun during rifle season and head to the woods for the first time of the year in hopes one will run by. But you can't do that for just one method of hunting. One thing you need to consider is a trophy to one person may not be to another. And most people out during gun season really don't care what they shoot. The people who are really hunting for big horns won't shoot the nice basket rack that needs to get bigger.But the person who just got picked up by his buddies to go deer hunting sure will.

MC

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

I'd fine her a $1000 and throw her in jail!

...actually, read post #16

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

I punished her by buying her another tag...LOL

MC

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

Good point, made me think of things from a slightly different perspective.

Maybe the best solution would be to raise the price of the tag and reward those that harvest deer meeting those guidelines during rifle and muzzleloader seasons by returning a significant portion of the tag fee to them. Then give the hunter the option of accepting the funds or donating them to a program that purchases or improvesland for public hunting.

...and have a cheaper youth tag as well

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

That'll teach her for being a good hunter! :D

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

I don't know what we need to do but something needs to be done... I can't grow monster deer around my property because every neighbor around me wants to shoot the first deer that shows up and has antlers(spike, forked horn) it doesn't matter... I take does for meat and I like to harvest mature bucks.. I do understand when it is your first year or 2 bowhunting and you just shoot the 1st thing in front of you.. But we need to do something because I went and looked at the pictures on the wall at my local check station and most everyone shoots small 1.5 yr bucks... I think the antler restriction would be a good thing.. I also heard an old farmer say the other day that we need a couple years that no one can shoot a buck.. I don't agree with that, but what do yal think.??

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

I really dont know if there is a good answer, what i do know is from the experience of hunting two states every year that my Kansas experience is heads above my Oklahoma hunts. We hunt in a very good area of NW Oklahoma and see and kill some nice bucks. When we go to Kansas to hunt the size of the deer are just in a totally different class. Its all because in Kansas you can shoot one buck a year and thats it. They just have a chance to grow up and get big. I have thought Oklahoma should have done that long ago. I think you should be able to buy an buck tag and hunt any season to get your buck. If people could shoot only one buck they might be a lot more selective about what they shoot.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

One thing I have noticed when reading about the actually hearings is that a lot of people other than hunters offer input at the meetings and they don't have the same concerns we do. Insurance companies like to see more deer killed, period, because of so many claims for auto/deer collisions. Farmers have other motives. Some of them want as many deer as possible killed because of crop damage. Others may have large tracts of land they sell leases on and are looking at the profit angle.

I think a lot of places around here have some really good bucks, but they obviously are harder to hunt and someone who only hunts a couple of weekends will take the first buck they see and others just don't have the patience or skill to wait or know how to hunt the older bucks.

This is really a complex issue when you start to consider all the angles.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

These guys peeve me. They want all these deer killed but when you ask them permission, its the ole' heisman stiff arm and comments 'Sorry, i dont let anyone hunt' or 'Im savin it for my 8yr old grandson (that lives 1000 miles away and MIGHT want to come hunt (ie:shoot a spike))'

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

The excuse that gets me when I've asked for permission to bowhunt is, "No, we have cattle. We don't want them gettin' shot." ...how in the heck am I going to accidently shoot a cow with my bow?

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

"Insurance companies like to see more deer killed, period, because of so many claims for auto/deer collisions."

That said it all. The farmers and insurance companies will win every time. Any farmer who does not allow safe hunting and then whines about deer damage gets what he deserves.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

There was a good article in todays paper about the meeting. They are also thinking of making Southwest OK like a management area. There you would only be able to shoot one buck. This is where I rifle hunt, so I would be interested in hearing everyones opinions on this subjet. I have no problems with it myself, but I am sure a lot of people will. Not sure if there is a way to do it. But if there was a way to reward people that shoot mature deer, maybe that would help. I know that more people in Southwest OK are passing up smaller deer now then 5 or 10 yrs. ago.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

"They are also thinking of making Southwest OK like a management area. There you would only be able to shoot one buck."

i also hunt mostly in SW Oklahoma and would welcome such a plan. You are right,lots offolks are passing up immature bucks. Unfortunately, there are stillsome of the kind that will shoot a spike or fork horn. i do not have a problem with immature bucks being killed during youth deer season.

i grew up in WV in the 40s and 50s. There were lots of deer with huge antlers. Then the state of WV got greedy and started selling deer.It all went to pot in about 10 years. Now the bucksituation is worse in WV than it is in OK.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

The meetings begin at 6:30 pm except in Sallisaw and Muskogee and those two start at 6pm. Jan 08 @ Durant at the State Fish Hatchery, Lawton at the Public Library, Okmulgee at East Central Electric, and at Muskogee at the college auditorium. Jan 09 at Ada Vo. Tech, Altus at the public library, Broken Bow and the public library, Enid at Central fire station, Oklahoma City at the Dept. of Wildlife Conservation, Tishomingo at the community center, Tulsa at the Alliance and Conference Center building (Tulsa technology center Riverside campus), Sallisaw at Indian Capital Vo-Tech. Of course, the main topic is reducing the number of bucks allowed over all three seasons from 3 to 2.I personally don't think this will have that much impact on the herd, but I'm no deer biologist. I just don't think there are that many hunters in any area harvesting 3 bucks in the first place. Whatever finally happens, I hope they come up with some way to stop the slaughter of the young bucks and help out by encouraging theharvestofdoes and letting the smaller bucks grow up. I've been hunting S.W. Okla since 1974 when I moved here from S.E. Okla. There were few deer in this entire area of the state at that point. In fact, in 1976 there was only 1 deer harvested in the entire county and I shot it with a bow. Now, we're loaded up with deer. I had as many as 15 at one time in front of me during this past rifle season. I passed on many, many bucks, one was probably a 130-135 class 8 point. I want the opportunity to see those BIG BOYS more often. I manage my property by feeding, planting, etc. all year long and then those little bucks walk off and get shot next door. I want more to grow up. At least according to my cameras, my biggest has made it so far but each year some that were going to be great never showed up again after rifle season. They (the wildlife department) is considering making all or part of Beckham, Greer, Harmon, Tillman and Jackson counties a 1 buck/year area experimental zone. If this will help, I'm all for it. I just know that we're going to have to find a way to reduce the numbers of does for this to work. I'm convinced that all of them don't get bred anyway because of the imbalance. I plan on attending the meeting, but my gut tells me that they will do what they want anyway. I've been to too many meetings and part of too many surveys where I feel that this happens. It's just a good way to make people feel like they were a part of the decision and lends some "false" validity to them. Since we have no real way to see what the actual results were, they can tell us that they were anything they wanted and we'll go along with it. That's an awful lot of meetings to try to keep up with. Also, knowing that written comments are accepted if mailed to Attn: Proposed hunting and fishing regulation changes-----Wildlife Department, P.O. Box 53465, Oklahoma City, Ok. 73152, it makes the task impossible for everybody except them. Wejust have to trust them.
That's thebottom line.All I know is I hope they know what they are doing and get on the road to getting this corrected. I'm not getting any younger. I know that for sure. Happy New Year everyone and here's hoping that each of you harvest the largest buck of your life this next season.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

It will be interesting to see what they do. I just hope they make the right decisions. I have no problem with them going to 2 bucks. I passed up so many this year and never drew back on one. I guess we will find out soon what they decide.

MC

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

I also do 90% of my hunting South of Lawton and am curious to hear how all of these changes will work. I did notice that they were thinking of modifying the dove season as well. Projected limits will change from 15 to 12, but they are thinking of giving another late season dove hunt in December. Here is the link to the agenda and dates: http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/2007_public_hearing_locations.htm

See yall there!!

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

Hey guys, I live in duncan and also heard about the changes in the oklahoman. I have never killed more than one deer a season so limiting the bucks will not affect me. Im a meat hunter. dont care about horns. By the way any of you hunt public land in OK?

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

I hunt public land. I didnt do any good this year but I had a blast. I had a buck ten yards to my left while I was in my ground blind. Talk about getting the blood pumping. Unfortunately I wasnt paying attention, Oh well ill be after him again next year.

Did you do any good on public land this year? I spent alot of time out at Altus-Lugert. There are some good deer there but they are extremely hard to pattern. Once I got it figured out they changed it all up on me. Although I did find out that Altus Lugert is getting overrun with coyotes and bobcats. I went out sunday after alot of rain and there were tracks everywhere...and I mean everywhere. I may have to plan another trip in the next few weeks for a predator hunt.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

Did not hunt or scout in 05 since i worked out of state. Been scouting since early July this year and hunting at least two days a week since early October. In the area that i hunt the most the deer have drastically changed their habits. They have abandonedmany long established trails.The fawn to doe rate was low this year. The fawn survival rate was also low. Many does that were running with fawns early on have lost them to something or the other. There are a large number of coyotes. Blasted one last evening while rabbit hunting with the .22. There is a dramatic increase in the number of wild hogs since 04.

I think that a one buck per limit should be made effective this year. It works in Kansas and other places and can work here as well.

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

did anyone make it to the meetings??

RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
 

There was a meeting tonite in Enid. I went and there were about 50 people there.

There was a lot of talk about the deer limit thing. Guys mentioning antler restrictions, fewer buck tags, more doe tags....all sorts of things. The biologists are against antler restrictions claiming there are a lot of 1 1/2 deer w/ 6-8 points or on the flip side, old deer w/ few points = this would not help.

There were a lot of things suggested that make a lot of sense, but its convincing the dept, then the legislature to act on it.

as for the meeting:

They had an open discussion first to air ideas and suggestions. Then they went through all the proposed changes. Several items about some part of a river in E. Ok. then they got to the deer stuff. One other proposal is allowing youth hunts to take a doe (like they can now) and add a buck tag. This was pretty ademently opposed. After this, I left. They still had some things about fur bearers (river otters) and other misc stuff I really didnt care about.

If any one does, I can post more about it. Heck, I can even scan it in and put it as an attachment (depending on size).


If there are anymore upcoming, GET OUT THERE AND MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD!