Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

As I looked through the photos on the Virginia kill thread, I began to ponder "what beautiful bucks wewould becapable of producing if hunters did not kill off the small bucks". Antler restrictions have been successful in other states, so why not here? We have very liberal antlerless limits for those who are interested in meat or numbers, so why not increase the odds for those who are interested in harvesting a real trophy? I believe thatminimum antler size to protect our young bucksis an idea whose time has come for Virginia.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

I love the idea of antler restrictions. It's stupid when people shoot spikes just for the kill. Stupid people shooting dog sized deer piss me off... [:@]

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

Yeah my buddy shoots anything with four legs in the woods.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

I think that he has shot like 5 deer this year and only one of them have been worth the processing fee. and it was a retarded buck.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

And what exactly made it retarded? Was it running in circles or something. Or was it on top of Stevan Harris beating the crap out of him like Earl Bruce???

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

Most of the guy's around us have either DMAP or self imposed AR's

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

I believe that in Shenandoah or Warren counties there is an antler restriction on your 2nd buck starting this year.I think it has to be 4 points or better per side. I feelthat we should have to earn all of our buck tags in VA by shooting a doe first. You shoot one doe, you get one buck, and so on until 3. The catch is the bucks have to have 4 points per side or better. That would solve the buck to doe ratio problem and help us start seeing more mature bucks. Just my take.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

Arkansas 3 point rule sure has helped.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

alot of our management area's have gone to 3 points on one side

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

I think it would work in some areas of the state but in Craig and Botetourt County where we hunt, everyone meat hunts so no one really cares about shooting monsters every year.

I guess what I'm saying is that you'd have to have cooperation from the state because some people don't care about horns. So I'd go along w/point restrictions in that area if they give me more doe days. I, nor most of the people I know have a problem w/shooting does for our meat but when almost all of your days in the season are buck only... makes it kinda hard.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

I agree with you. The hunt club I belong to does not shoot any bucks under 6 points. We concentrate on does which are plentiful. Once in a while you'll take a button by accident. We lease the land we hunt and unfortunately the clubs surrounding us practice "if it's brown it's down".
Kind of pisses you off when you try to manage the herd and your neighbors reap the benefits.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

We have practiced antler restrictions onour propertyfor the past 5 years. Shoot any doe you want, but a buck must have 3 points on at least 1 side. And, if he is a small six, we usually let him walk too. What is frustrating, is that we only own 300 acres, and the small bucks that we let walk are often shot by the neighbors, some of whom have the audacity to build permanent stands facing into our property from 20 or 30 feet over the lines.

For antler restrictions to work, they must be mandated by the state of Virginia, as is done in other states.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

Here in Georgia, you are allowed 2 buck tags...also WMA tags that DNR give you when you get a WMA permit. We have antler restrictions. One buck can be any size, but the other one has to be a minimum of 4 points on either side, at least 1 inch long. We are allowed 10 does though.

Yea, I also know Rusty_S' friend, and he HAS killed like 5 deer this year...only one worthy of a processing fee. I live with a Boxer dog, and this guy has shot deer smaller than that...total BS!

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

Dude your first deer was in the process of being born and you shot it anyway. :D

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

MY first deer? you mean Suggs' dont you?

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

You mean Sugggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggs

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

thats weird i was just telling my dad today i wish we had that. we only have 75 acres in va, hunted around by hunt clubs so im guilty of shooting some smaller ones because i have to be.

I also think the doe resrictions hurt it too. When you can only shoot bucks the majority of the season, its really easy to get frustrated when you see does every day with nothing you can do...then u take it out on the first thing with horns !haha

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

Wow.... [&:]

Sorry! My small spike/3 pointer was the only deer I saw in 3 solid days of hunting. I WASN'T GOING TO GO ANOTHER YEAR OF GETTING SKUNKED. Sorry, but, I had to. I just had to get my first deer under my belt first, before I could now look at QDM and antler restrictions.

Butch A.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

If you want bigger antlers hunt bigger deer. Don't wait for the dogs to chase the big ones to you. Virginia has plenty of trophy class deer, I see them all the time while driving the country roads with my job. If you have antler restrictions in the mix, after 5 or so years shooting an 8 pt won't really be any thrill for those rack junkies. Virginia is on the right track with the established limits now (at least where I hunt). Like I said before, Va has plenty of trophy class deer. If you want one, be a better hunter and hunt one. The way you boys from Georgia are talking, maybe AR might be right for you. Oh yeah, and Butch, again...congrats on your 3pt!

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

Very well said !!


If you Georgia folks want AR so dang bad, just skip over VA and head on up to PA, then come back and tell us just how much fun you had!

And yeah Butch congrats on your 1st Deer!

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

Good point, Yano... From what I have heard, PA is in bad shape. 1.3 million hunters and thanks to Gary Alt (I think that's his name), the deer are becoming scarce up there.

Thanks for the comments on my very first deer! :D

Butch A.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

Congratulations on your deer Butch. A hunter's first deer is an important milestone.

I have hunted Pa. for over 50 years. In the early years, it was not unusual to hunt all day and not see a deer. Then the population grew to a point that it was almost imposible for a hunterNOT to see deer.

Most of the current flap in Pa. is not about antler restrictions. It is about the slaughter of does to reduce populations.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

Which was implemented to make room for the increased population of bucks as a result of what?

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

personally i'd rather have hunters taking young bucks for food than see trophy hunters that could care less about meat. i've lots of trophy bucks that were hauled around till they spoiled. where we hunt on farm land the landowners will want you to take a as many deer as you can. they only let you hunt to thin the population because of crop damage. there are plenty of va. trophy bucks. fact is the state is producing better bucks every year. i live 1 mile from the shenadoah national park ,and there will never be any shortage of deer or bear here and with so many people complaining about the crop damage they just ,must be killed. we don't kill every small buck we see ,but we do kill what we want to eat. and i process all my own deer, i wouldn't even think of letting someone else do it.

the pressure that has been put on young hunters to kill trophy racks eveytime you hunt ,is in lots of ways hurting our sport. we hunt for the fun of the hunt ,not the kill and if a trophy comes along ,thats fine. but if not i'll eat the little ones. i've seen young hunters stop hunting because of this pressure. i just not right ,this trophy thing will kill our sport in the long run.

there are plenty of land management programs on land near us. they are growing bigger bucks, but most hunters here are not trophy hunters.

i would guess that half of the trophy deer killed near me are not killed legal anyway. they either die at night or over bait. and now with the new callin game checking you can kill them a month before the season and nobody will ever know.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

Actually, it was implemented to reduce the overall deer population. A large percentage of the "does" that are killed, are button bucks. This, of course, does nothing to raise the population of bucks.
That said, Pa. has a very large number of licensed hunters (read dollars), and because of this, and the fact that the Pa Game Commission purse strings are controlled by the legislature,wildlifeprograms often tend to be politically influenced.

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Your are correct at least about the political part, that's exactly why PA's AR/HR program was implemented simultaniously. AR was the carrot for HR; there weren't two seperate selling video's done for AR and HR.

Bottom line is here are the current results, of PA's joint AR/HR progam. I guess you must want Virginia to have similar results. Not only is their buck harvest down, but so is the number of general tags sold (which will translate into a future license increase).

Year total buck # of tagsSuccess/general tag
1998 = 181,449 / 1,071,205 ======== 16.9%
1999 = 194,368 / 1,033,315 ======== 18.8%
2000 = 203,221 / 1,038,486 ======== 19.5%
2001 = 203,247 / 1,047,820 ======== 19.3%
2002 = 165,416 / 1,017,154 ======== 16.2%
2003 = 142,270 / 1,018,248 ======== 13.9%
2004 = 124,410 / 1,013,866 ======== 12.2%
2005 = 120,500 / 964,158 ======== 12.4%


I know several successful farmers, but I don't know of any that ever got that way by killing off their prize bulls.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

I could be wrong, but Iseem to recallthat AR in Pa was first implemented in 2002 or 2003. Idon't have a good handle on this date, because, although I hunt Pa every year, I shoot only does and/or mature bucks.One would logically expect the total buck kill to decrease with AR in effect.

Also, the general idea is not to kill off the "prize bulls". Deer are not barnyard animals, and anyone who has hunted extensively knows thatmature bucks are not that easy to kill. The idea is to perpetuate their genetics and allow time for these genetics to surface intheir progeny. But, it you want to use the cattle analogy, killing off young bucks is like your farmers sending their young bulls to slaughter before they have a chance to prove themselves.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

AR was implemented in PA in the Fall of 2002, and the Good Doctor claimed that the buck harvest would return to nomal after one year.

Now we are getting somewhere, VA only is only 4k sqmi less in size than PA, has roughly 60% hunters fewer hunters, and is ranked 7thof states in total deer population. That should result in plenty of mature buck to go around, thus proving that AR really isn't needed in Virginia at all.


I'm done for today, I have to go and try to bust a few Yotes to do my part in trying to get VA to #6 in Deer population.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

Ding! We have a winner... But, yet AR shouldbe up to the hunter to ensure a spike buck grows to be a nice mature 8 pointer. With VA's deer population, AR isn't really needed. It should be left to the hunter to choose what he wants to do (let the li'l guy walk, or bag him).

Butch A.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

I lived in VA for five yrs and killed two pretty nice bucks, and a couple small bucks. I always seen deer when I hunted. I think AR's would be a great idea. I grew up in PA and moved back two yrs ago. I have hunted in PA for 20 yrs and the last two yrs have totally sucked. The AR thing is fine the problem is they give out 20-50 thousand doe tags per management area and open doe season for two weeks during buck rifle season. The first three yrshunters killed everything. Gary Alt the genius biologist told us all that we were doing the deer herd a huge service by shooting as many doe as possible. Now there's hardly any deer left on state land. Private land is better. PA really screwed up by killing off all the doe and making the rules the same for public and private land. If they stop the doe massacre things will be better in a few yrs.

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yano where are these statistics comming from? not calling you out it sounds like an informative website.

as for saying "hunt bigger deer" i do... by going all the way to my friends place in tennessee where its gotta be an 8 outside his ears and they harvest a few every season because they do follow ar's.

the pop is high because more bucks are killed than does due to the laws. its a fact that between 70-80% of deer harvested are year-and-a-half olds.

im not doubting there arent trophy bucks in va ive seen mammoths killed, i just dont see the harm in a conservative ar it seems like youd see the benifits after just a year maybe 2

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

They are based on data taken directly from the PA Game Commision Website athttp://www.pgc.state.pa.us/


When did Tennessee implement their state-wide AR?


So folks that happennot to support AR orhappen to have their own land and don't support AR should have their freedoms and choices taken away?

I would much rather see increased freedoms for hunters here in Virginia, such as Sunday Hunting; likewiseany huntershould have the freedom to decide what exactly is a trophy in theirown eyes.People that believe in AR so badly, still have the option of buying or leasing and and managing it asthey see fit.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

Good topic, I'm for AR and have seen how they can improve the quality of the bucks harvested on some of the properties I hunt. Another side benefit is safety, it prevents some hunters from empting a clip a every deer running past them. I here lots of complaints about PA, but I don't know the whole issue. Is the AR in PA effecting the overall harvest or is it the past over harvest of does?
And there's a easy way to prevent shooting a button buck.
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RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

i haven't read every post so i dunno if this has been brought up or not. AR is a good thing to a certain point BUT can also be bad. if you have a buck(s) in the area or on your property with bad genes and they never exceed the legal antler restrictions so they can be harvested, then you will have them breeding does and spreading the bad genes. these bucks need to be identified and taken out of the herd to maximize QDM.

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a good example of this is a W.M.A. where i hunt. they have AR of 3 points on one side. there is a spike i see every year (for the past 3 years) that has to be approximately 4 years old and he has never been anything but a spike. this year his spikes were approximately 12 to 15 inches tall. this deer needs to be taken out of the herd to keep anymore of his genes from being passed on but due to the law, he will be continually breeding and spreading the bad genes.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

thats a good point camocop. maybee georgia is on the right track where they can shoot one buck of their choice size and the others have AR's.

tennessee does not. but with over 600 acres plus a lease that borders their land, and only about 5 people who hunt it, they have the means to effectively impose them.

and i dont really have the option of buying or leasing land large enough to mange. im a 22 year old recent college graduate!in fact im currenty employed as a realtor and land is through the roof right now.

im just tired of working on our property all year planting acres upon acres of foorage for all the neighboring hunters to shoot the young bucks.

RE: Antler Restrictions in Virginia
 

doe tags and doe seasons have been steadily on the increase in most of va. mostly because of pressure from insurance companies. to many deer being hit by cars. this year we went from 3 doe days in a 2 week rifle season to 6 days. in some counties you can take does all season long.
the vdgif has started to change seasons for certian areas ,but is making it hard to keep up with what you can kill when and where. the vdgif has brought in coyotes to help thin deer populations,but now are paying bounties on the yotes to thin them out . they have also brought in wolves to thin the yotes, but are unwilling to admit this fact. ofcourse they say
there are no mountian llions here either.

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now i like this approach to game management. the only trick would be to possibly put on some educational classes for voluntarily participants or evenmandate attendance for licenses. this way hunters can learn how to spot deer, primarily bucks, with bad to poor genetics. thiscould make hunters smarter at taking less desireable deer for their first tag and then concentrate on a wall hanger for their last tag.

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Woo-hoo!!! Thank you, thank you.... That right there is the quote of all quotes. :D[8D]

Butch A.

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Are they all sohiding UFO's? No offence shooter, but do you really think the DGIF couldintroduce Coyotes, Wolfs, or Mt. Lions into VA with out it being documented.
I agree with you on all the different regs for each counties, it does get confusing. But some of the regs such as firearms are determinded by the counties, not the DGIF.
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