Anneal then Resize?
 

I have about 100 300RUM and 100 7mmSTW brass. Both sets have been shot 3 times. I was getting ready to anneal but should I anneal then resize or FL Size then Anneal? Found it to be very time consuming.

Tumble the brass, clean the media off the brass, FL size, wipe lube off brass, anneal the brass, then retumble.

Figured it might be easier and the same thing to tumble, clean, anneal, then resize, clean lube off

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

Bigcountry - you definitely want to anneal before resizing. If not, the necks could crack during the resizing process - in which case, it's too late to anneal them . . . . Are you using the standard propane torch/bucket of water method?

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

ditto to what Roskoe said...................anneal BEFORE resizing.

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

I am using Hornady's kit with a electric screwdriver and tempalac paint and propane torch. I still can't see the "blue shiney wash" people talk about. I practiced on 10 junk case last night and all I could see if the neck getting red. I tried with the lights low, lights high. I will just stick with the tempalac paint. I can at least see that.

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

Big - the blue tinge comes after the case is quenched in water. Brass is wierd stuff. When heated and quenched, it gets softer - opposite of steel. You don't need or want to get it red hot. The easy way is to hold the case by the back (near the web) with your fingers. Place the neck into the propane torch flame and rotate. When the case gets too hot to hold, open your fingers and let it drop into the 10 quart bucket of water you have placed right under the torch flame. The neck and shoulder of the case will usually be discolored.

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

According to Ken Howell, that just doesnt cut it. It won't reach its 675F? Also, different cases different temps. I know John Barshness claims this method. But what I find with 300RUM cases it won't even melt the 475F temp paint 1/4" below the shoulders.

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

In all of my years of reloading i've NEVER had to anneal cases after ONLY useing them 3 or 4 times!!!!

Drilling Man

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

what is a sign of needing to anneal?

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

Weak neck tension. I don't know if I do need too or not, but would like to get 5 loads out of this 300 RUM brass. I have had cracked necks at load 4 before. Hopefully this will fix it.

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

I have done thousands of cases this way. Never really knew what the exact temperature was - just know that it works! Also, I was of the understanding that lack of neck tension was generally attributed to necks being too soft - and cracks in the neck are a red flag they are getting brittle from "work hardening". The annealing process softens them . . . .

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

I do believe in annealing. We do it at work for certain products but I think there is a balance. Don't heat it up too long and don't do it to short. They say if you don't get it to temp all you are doing is stress relieving. I don't know. Figured I would give it a whirl. I am just following the directions from the hornady kit. I know a bunch of guys on Accurate reloading that say you can see the blue in the neck, and you got to take it off the flame right then, next will be red. I just can't see the blue.

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

One thing I forgot to mention in the earlier post: I use MAPP gas in my propane torch - I think it is a little hotter than regular propane. It's also kind of interesting how certain calibers need this more than others. I almost never have to do it with my .22-250 Ackley; where I sometimes load cases more than 20 times. But in the 6MM-284, they will crack on about the third or fourth reloading without annealing. Always wondered if it had anything to do with the fact that they are already squeezed down from 7MM to 6MM - ie. work hardened - before I ever start firing them?

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

For me,

Lack of neck tension can be either too soft or too hard, BUT i've never had "not enough neck tension" from too soft of brass. I HAVE had it from too hard, but generally the necks crack when the brass gets that (hard) brittle.

"If" i could only get 5 loads out of my brass and i don't give a damn what cal. it is!!! I would blame either junk brass or loading to "too high of pressures"!!! I've NOT had any "brand name brass" that was junk to this date though!!! YES, i may loose one or two "once in a while", but NEVER more than the occasional one.

The way i've always annealed brass was to clean and deprime it, then stand it in a pan of water up to near the shoulder. I then use a propane torch around the neck untill it changed to the desired color. Once that was done, i'd knock it over into the pan of water and go to the next one. Nothing fancy about it, but it always worked!!

Maybe something "else" will work better for you?????

Drilling Man

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

The only time i ever had to anneal any brass was 300 H&H before fire forming them to 300 Mashburn.never had any need to do so to anything else. vangunsmith

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

Well, I never asked if I had to anneal, the question was does people anneal before resizing or resizing before annealling. Read the heading. Nobody has to do anything. I could buy new brass, not shoot the gun, whatever.

Vangun, are you saying as a gunsmith you never had a cracked neck????? Thats funny, I never knew a reloader that hasn't had a cracked neck. My mother has never had to anneal a case either, but whats your point?

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

BC, man don't be so hard, maybe you need some annealling?
Just joking, man ! Just joking!

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

Rebel, I have been on this page on and off for what seems 5 years. I just wish instead of people looking down on one another, and being insecure, that if you do know an answer to a post, you post it. If you don't, or you don't do it that way, then pass the thread. Nobody knows everything.

I see some guys that never ask a question on these forums. They know it all. All they do is go around bragging on themselfs and telling you the way they do it and thats the only way. Thats a fool my friend. I have learned so much here an other places. Even from the beginner reloader like my pal Mossy, helping him from time to time, I learn things. We learn together. If I really felt that way that my mind cannot be changed, and I knew everything, I wouldn't waste my time on here. They have no interest in the exchange of ideas. Thier minds cannot be changed. So whats thier deal? Does it help thier ego? We all know who some may be. I appeciate but don't always agree with alot of people who have always helped me on this forum. People with serious experience but very set in thier ways like DM. Bob out of Arizona, olkelkhunter, jamesB.

I mean this guy said I have never had to anneal. How does that answer my question? Has he never shot a piece of brass until the neck cracked? If he did then it needed annealled. Does annealling hurt anything? No. According to bench rest shooters, it only helps things but is time consuming. I like trying new things. Its my nature.

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

BC, I'm 65yrs old and have learned alot since being on here!
Like you mentioned, alot of guys on here have it together and
then there are those that are very dogmatic. It does'nt really
matter to me, because I've been around the block to many times.
I read your post and the answers you got, struck me funny.
I have read your post and really could'nt answer it.I have annealed
100's of brass, but you were asking a specific question and don't have
the answer.I rather just be quite!!

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

I am not talking about you Rebel. I just see some that seems to want attention. Maybe I should heed my own advise and just hit the ignore button.

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

You should be able to get temp sticks (like crayons) at a welding supply store - they'll tell you temps.

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

BC, 10-4

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

hehehehe lol @ Rebel........BC's old lady says just the opposite, is there an opposite to annealing (you know harden him up) ;)

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

Sure glad you guys are friends!

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

I figured from what i said above, you got the answer you wanted???? I clean and deprime, NO i didn't say i resize, because if the necks are "springing back" (brittle) why bother resizeing untill the necks are annealed?????

I deprime to let the water into the case, so did i answer or am i so old i can't follow your question???

Hell, i don't even know if "i've" been insulted or not???? Let me know if you'd rather i didn't "try" to help you out next time, as no sense in me takeing "my" time to read your post if feel that way.

Drilling Man

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

Not at all DM. I appreciate your advise and yes you helped answer my question. I always appreciate what you have to say.

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

Maybe what I said is hard to understand so let me clarify there are a few on here like JamesB, oldelk and yourself that I greatly appreciate sharing you knowledge. DM, you rarely but in on a post to tell us that it has to be done your way. Its usually, a straight answer to a question or you leave it alone.

RE: Anneal then Resize?
 

Thanks for answering.

I really do try to help out, but sometimes it's very hard to get what i'm thinking into words, and then there's the problem that people don't always use the same terms all over the country.

On top of that, the mfg's are always trying to re-invent the wheel to get NEW sales!! (your money)

Anyway, in my gunshop i RARELY charged for solveing reloading problems, and i had a standing policy, i'd solve EVERY problem that came through the door, or i'd find someone who could!!

Another thing, i always said, you drag it through the door and i can make ammo for it!!!

Over the years i made good on everything that came through the door!! But, it's a lot different here, when you don't have the problem in your hands to see for your self, with the person sitting beside you to talk to!!

Drilling Man