7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

I have an opportunity to pick up one of the few remaining sako 75s in either 7mmstw or 7mm ultramag (Sako is no longer offering these calibers). Practically speaking, when both are loaded to maximum pressures, what velocity difference can be expected shooting 150-160 grain bullets. My sense is the stw might give up 50 to 100 fps but at the cost of signicantly more recoil and reduced barrel life. My plans for the rifle are as a long range deer/back up elk rifle (it will share space with a 300 win, 300 wby and 340 wby). I will be shooting only premium bullets. Which should I choose? Forunately, need has nothing to do with the analysis!:D:D:D

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

You got it. About 100fps. Most likely less. I like this STW round. Barrel life should be much better due to 10-15gr less powder also.

How much can you get this STW for? I wouldn't mind to have one for myself.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Im own two 7mmstw's and one 7mmultramag.The ultramag adds about 75fps over the stw's.I believe that the ultramag case is just too large to be worthwhile with 7mm bullets.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

In my opinion, both calibers are very good, Im sure stubble and bigcountry know more about them then me, but I do reload for the 7mm STW and this maybe stating the obvious but with both of these being such high horsepower speed freaks, the STW that I reload for doesnt like lighter bullets, when you start loading the 139 hornady's accuracy goes out the window, Im sure the 7 ultra is the same because of the high velocity, the only other obvious difference is the STW is a belted round whereas the Ultra is not, I know some people have some complaints about all the Ultras feeding (for dangerous game) but that shouldnt be an issue. My 300 ultra feeds fine. If I had to choose I'd take the 7 ultra, just my opinion. Oh and as far as recoil a good brake will take that out of the equation.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

My own 7mmstw's shoot best with the 140gr ballistic tip.They average 1/2" groups with a muzzlevelocity of 3500fps.

Install a good recoil pad,forget the brake and save your hearing.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Stubblejumper

How to those 140 bt hold up at that velocity? I would guess they would be quite fragile if a shoulder were hit, particularly at close range. I sure love how accurately most bt shoot. Have you tried the accubonds at similar velocities? How did they shoot.

Big Country

I ordered the STW, had to pay 799 for the stainless synthetic. (It was made in 2003 so it isn't in the batch of recent stainless sakos/tikkas that are reportedly blowing up). As scarce as these guns in the magnum calibers are becoming, I figured I better snag one. I had hoped to find a 300 rum or a 300 wby in stainless synthetic. The 7mm stw and rum were all I could find. Had to order it from Cotts in MO. This was less than I would have had to pay last year when the local sports wharehouse had them in stock, even with shipping and paying a locall ffl dealer to do the paperwork.

Does anyone have some suggested loads for 150 or 160 partitions? I'm assuming 7828 will be about right, particularly for the 160. Anyone have any luck with TSX in this caliber? If I could them to shoot well enough, it might be an interesting all around bullet.--they have been driving me nuts in a 300 wby mark V with inconsistent accuracy. Any other suggestions? As noted, it will be a long range deer rifle and act as a backup for elk. With the exception of the tsx, my sense is a heavier bullet is in order.

As this is my first Sako, does anyone have any suggestions on rings? The sako rings look massive and heavy. I'm told leupold will also work. Any suggestions?

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

sorry stubble thats the one thing I gotta disagree on, my 300 rum, has a brake, and it literally took the gun from a sloberknocking, arm bruising, mule of a gun, and turned it into a girlie gun that kicks less than any of my 7mm's or even my 06. I love my brake!!!

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

I had a muzzle break on a 30-378 some years back. That was the only rifle I've had that I thought it was justified. It sucks to have to wear hearing hearing protection during a hunt you are only likely to take on shot with--with the muzzlebreak on that rifle, that's what I had to do it was so loud. I'm ok with the recoil of the 300wby and 340wby without a muzzlebreak. I'm sure I'll handle the stw.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

I now use the 7mmstw's for deer,pronghorn and bighorn and the 140gr ballistic tips have worked fine for those animals.When I hunted elk and moose with the 7mmstw's I used 140gr partitions and they did a great job.I haven't tried the new accubonds in my stw's and heavier bullets do not shoot nearly as well in my rifles.I now use my 300ultramags firing the 180gr ballistic tip for moose and elk and after 8 elk and 2 moose the results have been very good.I do not have brakes on any of my rifles.If the rifle is not comfortable to shoot,I change stocks,recoil pads or get rid of the gun as I won't hunt with earplugs in place and a single shot from a braked rifle without hearing protection can cause permanent hearing damage.

load recomendations for 7mm stw
 

Does anyone have any pet loads for the 7mm stw in 140 to 160 grain weights? I hope to work up an accurate load with one of the following:

139g interbond
140g tsx
140g accubond
140 partition
150g partition
160g partition
160g accubond

Also, does anyone know where I can find Layne Simpson's data for the stw? I've been unsuccesful in my search. Load will be primarily for long range deer/antelope and as a back up gun for elk. Thanks in advance.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

ELKADDICT,

I solved the problem of which one to choose, I bought both of them( the ULTRA MAG in SS & STW in STAINLESS HUNTER), problably from the same guy you did. At those prices I had to, I shot the 7MM ULTRA MAG, great groups I still have to mount the scope on the STW im sure it will shoot just as good.

GOOD LUCK

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

You are going to love your new 7mm-STW.
My pet load is,
79-Grains IMR-7828,
Federal 215-magnum primers,
140-grain Nosler Partition bullet.

I have used other powders & bullets, all were accurate. I prefer the 140-grain bullet for all of my deer & antelope hunting.
I have used this same load with great results on elk. I prefer my 300-win mag loaded with 200-grain partitions for my "go-to" elk rifle.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Wolf, my smith also likes that load but with a 139gr Hornady. What I don't get about the STW, is the variations between manuals. I mean you 4gr I think over max in the Nosler manual, but right at max in the barnes manual. (its usually the other way around). According to IMR, its under max. Either Nosler really has this caliber underloaded or Barnes has it way overloaded. I mean they are kicking a 140gr bullet over 3400fps.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

My own 7mmstw's deliver 3480fps and 3520fps with 140gr bullets and imr7828.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

man that is smokin'!!!!!!! Now is this considered a hot load? and will shooting this speed reduce barrel life? just wonderin' if i shouild try to push the STW im reloadin for to that speed. oh and are they both 26" barrels stubble?

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Both rifles have 26" barrels,one a kreiger the other a schneider.Neither shows pressure signs and case life is very good.Barrel life is reduced as you load to the max but this is true with any cartridge.Remington grossly underloads their factory ammunition for this cartridge.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

When I had my 7MMSTW I loaded the 140 grain Partition to about 3100 fps. It took down every animal I shot with one shot. When I used the big casings it was so I didn't have to crowd the limits. I loaded my 30 calibers with 180 grain bullets. What would have been a hot load for my 30-06 was a mild load in my 300 Win Mag. I had trouble at close range with the older Ballistic tips in my 7MM Rem Mags. They were fragil at close range. I understand thet Nosler beefed them up a bit since then. I use them a lot in the 308 and 30-06. Also in the 280.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

James, thats my plan to load around 3100fps or even less. Stubble have you ever stopped and thought all your loads are at max or well around 100 to 200fps faster than the average RUM or STW accuracy loads. Maybe its the canadian weather.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

My two 7mmstw's are producing 1/2" three shot groups consistantly while driving the 140gr ballistic tips at around 3500fps so I couldn't care less about so called accuracy loads listed in manuals.It is possible that using blueprinted actions,match grade barrels and pillar bedding in mcmillan stocks are a contributing factor to obtaining good accuracy with maximum loads.It could also be that I experiment with handloads until I obtain the highest velocity possible while maintaining good accuracy and case life while exibiting no pressure signs.I do not see the point of downloading cartridges.If I wanted 3200fps out of 140gr bullets I would be using 7mmremmags instead of the stw's.I understand that using maximum loads decreases barrel life but when a barrel starts to go ,I just have another one installed.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

I hear ya on it doesn't make sense for downloading. But I got a good deal on a STW, but I don't need higher velocity, and really only want 3100fps. I want to have this gun for a long time. I do shoot for the stars with my custom 300RUM, and have had the barrel replaced once due to shooting out the old one. But this gun is my long range toy, and don't mind changing barrels.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

bigcountry-

I think that could have to do with several factors. One that I feel is probably most prevalent is the fact that the Barnes is and all-copper bullet, producing higher pressures with less powder than the Partition with its lead core bullet, thus attaining a max load with less powder. Could also be the barrel that they tested in, does it say exactly, could it be a standard test barrel, or an actual firearm? Just some things to consider.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Charlie, thats what I am trying to tell you. Max load for the Barnes 140gr is like 4gr over max load for a Nosler 140gr. It typically is always the other way around. Your right about the barrels used. But historically, it has been said with the STW, factory loads are underloaded and not near the 65KPSI. There has to be a reason for it.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

I wonder if it's not just because of liability, but also because the ammo makers don't want to really stoke the 7mm STW to its max potential because they don't want it to drastically outperform cartridges like the 7mm Rem Mag or their namesake cartridges. I can especially see this as a factor as to why Remington would underload the STW, considering that the margin between a full power STW and their 7mm RUM isn't that big, but by loading it down a bit, Remington can make the Ultra Mag look more "ultra" than it really is. Remington wants the Ultra Mag to sell, and to do that they need to show that there is a clear benefit to burning a lot more powder in the way of a notable velocity advantage over its nearest competitor cartridge.

I think there is a good chance that the underloading may be more for marketing reasons than practical reasons.

Mike

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Maybe, who know. But the STW was underloaded I think long before 7RUM came out on the scene.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Remington also underloaded it's 300wby factory loads.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Bigcountry- I must have misread your original post regarding that 4 grains. It looked to me like you were saying Barnes was at, say 75g, and Nosler was at say, 79 grains, which would make sense, I guess it is the other way around, even though I looked at it like 5 times before posting[8D]:eek::)

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Stubblejumper,

I was discussing some of the things you were talking about with my gunsmith, but regarding the 300 Ultra. I had read some posts from a few months back about some guys critising the 300 ultra and talking about how inaccurate they were. Some of the guys were blaming the round. After discussing this with my gunsmith, he was saying people are to quick to blame a round. That in his opinion it comes down to the rifle. I think why you were seeing good results on multiple loads was that you had a custom rifle. Not doubting your ability to handload good, but if your gunsmith who blueprinted the action and rebarreled the gun for you was any good then you should have no problem shooting any quality bullet with 1/2" accuracy.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

I have a 300RUM, and have had a few. And I like them. They are finicky. They will have large velocity spreads upwards of 50-70fps. This is pretty well understandable with a overbore cartridge like the 300RUM that uses upwards of 101grs of powder. Also, there is some freebore in the chambers. It helps get to those velocity numbers safely.

Inheritly accurate calibers generally don't have these attibutes. So if its too hard for your gunsmith to understand, you need to find a new gunsmith. I like the RUM's but also understand how it can be inaccurate. I have a few loads that are .5MOA. But it takes twice the amount of work for me to hone in those numbers. than it would a WSM or 308win.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

So you think it has nothing to do with the machining of the gun that cause the inaccuracy? Or could you explain why you think they are inaccruate?

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

I do agree that is is much easier to get the smaller case capacity rounds to shoot .5MOA or less pretty easy.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Not at all a true statement.The accuracy of a load is based on many factors and some particular bullets just will not shoot as well as others in a given rifle reguardless of the quality of the rifle or the load development.This applies to all cartridges.not just the large capacity overbore cartridges.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

I agree with Stubblejumper. 1/2" accuracy or better requires a that almost all of the factors influencing accuracy are tightly controlled to near perfection resulting in a very high level of consistancy. Let's be perfectly realistic here; <1/2 MOA is OUTSTANDING ACCURACY for any gun. That level of accuracy on a consistant basis (one or two lucky groups do not count toward the consistancy requirement) is hard to achieve even with dedicated, purpose-built benchrest guns, let alone a light sporter weight magnum hunting rifle.

A good quality rifle is just the start of an accurate SETUP. Now if you were to say that a custom rifle, with all the accuracy work done to it, should shoot MOST types of ammo into 1 MOA, I'd say that's not unreasonable. But even a great rifle with crappy or ill suited ammo won't shoot up to potential, nor will great ammo make a poor rifle shoot well. BOTH factors have to be matched to each other.

I've heard that the large capacity, over-bored magnums are somewhat finicky, often showing a lot of fluctuation in velocity which is a factory in accuracy. Both because a bullet that is faster or slower, all else equal, will hit higher or lower (respectively), and because velocity and pressure variations also change the harmonics of the barrel, resulting in less than outstanding accuracy.

Mike

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Well I guess my gunsmith demands a little more from his custom rifles. He won't settle for a 1 MOA, in his opinion that is factory rifle accuracy. He won't ship a rifle off to a customer unless he gets a 1/2 MOA out of it. I guess he just has a different way of looking at things.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

I am curious what is working best out everybodies RUM. Stubble, I read you have the 300. What is your best load for that. Are you able to get around 3400 fps with it? Anybody else?

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Elkntr04, I got .5MOA accuracy with my 300RUM with 89 and 90gr of H1000 and 200gr accubonds. I only get around 2990fps. Fine with me.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Bigcountry,

How many different powders did you try? I got some Retumbo to try with the 200 grain accubonds. Have you had any experience with it? Did you try and push it any harder with the H1000? Or did you just try that, had it work and not mess around with it?

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Goodness, I have tried RL22, RL25, H1000, Retumbo, and IMR4350 with this 300. Yes, I had good luck with Retumbo, but not as good groups. I think with 200gr I was using 94gr of Retumbo. Didn't Chrono. I got 2.1" groups at 200 yards with this. I like H1000, and besides I got 8lb container of it.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

Thanks for the feed back. I will load up some Retumbo and see how that works. Then I may try the H1000 and see what the difference is. Thanks again for the info.

RE: 7mmstw v. 7mm ultrmag
 

I get 3340fps out of my 300ultramags using 180gr bullets and r-25.Group size averages 1/2" to 5/8".