.338 win mag recoil
12-14-2015, 04:17 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 3
.338 win mag recoil
Gentlemen: New to the forum. Need help. I've been reloading now for about a dozen years for my hunting rifles in .243 ,.308, 7 mm Remington mag., 7-08. Etc. I recently acquired a new-to-me Ruger M77 Mk II .338 Win. mag. I took it out yesterday for the first time to test some loads and my shoulder. For years I've loaded nostler BTs because I've liked the accuracy and performance on whitetail and muleys. I hunt the grasslands in western Nebraska. For this rifle I'm starting with 215 gr. Sierra Gamekings with Re 19. My initial impression is that we're going to get along fine.
Here's my dilemma: I've never shot a magnum rifle like this before. I wanted to know what the recoil would do to the cartridges in the magazine. I measured each cartridge with calipers and wrote on each one it's COL. I loaded the magazine, it holds three cartridges ,and fired a round. I could not detect any movement of the bullets in the case necks even though, of course, these bullets are not crimped. The tips of the bottom two bullets were flattened by the front of the magazine. The tip on the top bullet was Knocked out of round by the feeding ramp. Yikes!
I'm confident that when I am done tweaking this rifle I'll be shooting a sub MOA. IF I FEED THEM ONE AT A TIME! But what about when I'm in the field with a full magazine. What can I expect from my second and third shots?
Please help. Thank you
Here's my dilemma: I've never shot a magnum rifle like this before. I wanted to know what the recoil would do to the cartridges in the magazine. I measured each cartridge with calipers and wrote on each one it's COL. I loaded the magazine, it holds three cartridges ,and fired a round. I could not detect any movement of the bullets in the case necks even though, of course, these bullets are not crimped. The tips of the bottom two bullets were flattened by the front of the magazine. The tip on the top bullet was Knocked out of round by the feeding ramp. Yikes!
I'm confident that when I am done tweaking this rifle I'll be shooting a sub MOA. IF I FEED THEM ONE AT A TIME! But what about when I'm in the field with a full magazine. What can I expect from my second and third shots?
Please help. Thank you
12-14-2015, 04:59 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,780
I shoot a .338 WM quite a bit and have also noticed the flattened lead tips on rounds that were in the magazine. It does not seem to have much effect on accuracy at normal hunting ranges. Mostly I shoot the Nosler Partitions in my .338 WM rifles. I have shot the flattened tipped bullets into the same groups as the ones that normal tips, much to my surprise. Just give it a try and see if you can measure any difference.
If it causes you grief you can always switch to a plastic tipped bullet such as the AccuBond. The AccuBond shoots slightly smaller groups in my rifles and the tips are less likely to be deformed by heavy recoil.
On my rifles that are larger than the .338 WM I do crimp the bullets so that they will not be shoved deeper into the cases but do not crimp the .338 WM.
If it causes you grief you can always switch to a plastic tipped bullet such as the AccuBond. The AccuBond shoots slightly smaller groups in my rifles and the tips are less likely to be deformed by heavy recoil.
On my rifles that are larger than the .338 WM I do crimp the bullets so that they will not be shoved deeper into the cases but do not crimp the .338 WM.
12-14-2015, 05:41 PM
#4
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 3
Accubond
Yes, I have the highest regard for accubond. I've loaded them for my .308 and 7 mag. But quite frankly they're a little more difficult to enjoy at one dollar a bullet. I'm having a grand old time with the Sierras at $.50 a bullet in. I want to test the penetration of the sierra 215's I went to the range with two white oak boards, one at an inch and a half thick and the other three-quarter inches thick. I stood them up about a foot apart and shot through them to see how the bullet would penetrate through both boards. Whether I hit the 3/4" board first or the 1-1/2" board, the bullet drilled a .338 hole straight thru both of them. Recovered one bullet behind the target. The bullet had shed the front half of the core but it look like the whole jacket was still there but ripped open peeled back. And 100 yards for the 215 blue three-quarter inch hole through half inch plate steel. Lordy, I just can't believe I need a better bullet that.
This is really just a fantasy rifle of mine. The other cartridges I have are plenty good for the game I have around here I won't be able to afford elk hunting any more. I just love to shoot paper
This is really just a fantasy rifle of mine. The other cartridges I have are plenty good for the game I have around here I won't be able to afford elk hunting any more. I just love to shoot paper
12-17-2015, 12:29 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,903
Taper crimp. Most bottleneck rifle cartridge reloading dies are set up to offer taper crimp, just a matter of how you set up your dies. If you're not getting enough taper crimp tension to hold under recoil, you can use collet crimping dies like the Lee Factory Crimp Die to add additional non-rolled crimp tension. How you set up your expander should dictate plenty of grip behind the bullet to prevent set back, so your taper crimp just needs to prevent the bullet jumping out under recoil.
It IS possible to add tip protectors to your mag boxes, I'm not sure if anyone makes them for sale anymore. Cut a triangular prism out of plastic (can use aluminum, or rubber, depending upon your belief), glue it in place in the front of the magazine, stringing vertically. For a stagger feed, one in the middle is usually enough, for a center feed, two on the sides. The idea is to make the triangles with a steeper angle than the bullet ogive such that your block will contact the bullet "shoulder" and prevent the tip from hitting the front of the mag box.
Similarly, since you're using a bottleneck cartridge, you can insert ribs in front of the cartridge shoulder on the walls of the mag box (works for centerfeed and stagger feed boxes) to stop the cartridge from sliding forward.
Adding weight to the rifle can also help stop bullet crimp jump and somewhat help prevent bullet set back due to mag box impact.
None of these modifications should be necessary with a good taper crimp, especially with an added Lee FCD crimp.
It IS possible to add tip protectors to your mag boxes, I'm not sure if anyone makes them for sale anymore. Cut a triangular prism out of plastic (can use aluminum, or rubber, depending upon your belief), glue it in place in the front of the magazine, stringing vertically. For a stagger feed, one in the middle is usually enough, for a center feed, two on the sides. The idea is to make the triangles with a steeper angle than the bullet ogive such that your block will contact the bullet "shoulder" and prevent the tip from hitting the front of the mag box.
Similarly, since you're using a bottleneck cartridge, you can insert ribs in front of the cartridge shoulder on the walls of the mag box (works for centerfeed and stagger feed boxes) to stop the cartridge from sliding forward.
Adding weight to the rifle can also help stop bullet crimp jump and somewhat help prevent bullet set back due to mag box impact.
None of these modifications should be necessary with a good taper crimp, especially with an added Lee FCD crimp.
12-18-2015, 08:02 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,780
I somehow missed this post. Sorry about that. Thankfully NM448 has it covered well.
However, I would not modify the magazine for a relatively minor issue such as this. You might think about it if your rounds were getting battered enough to seat the bullet deeper into the case, but I would not do it just for flattened tips.
However, I would not modify the magazine for a relatively minor issue such as this. You might think about it if your rounds were getting battered enough to seat the bullet deeper into the case, but I would not do it just for flattened tips.
12-24-2015, 07:33 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,149
Gentlemen: New to the forum. Need help. I've been reloading now for about a dozen years for my hunting rifles in .243 ,.308, 7 mm Remington mag., 7-08. Etc. I recently acquired a new-to-me Ruger M77 Mk II .338 Win. mag. I took it out yesterday for the first time to test some loads and my shoulder. For years I've loaded nostler BTs because I've liked the accuracy and performance on whitetail and muleys. I hunt the grasslands in western Nebraska. For this rifle I'm starting with 215 gr. Sierra Gamekings with Re 19. My initial impression is that we're going to get along fine.
Here's my dilemma: I've never shot a magnum rifle like this before. I wanted to know what the recoil would do to the cartridges in the magazine. I measured each cartridge with calipers and wrote on each one it's COL. I loaded the magazine, it holds three cartridges ,and fired a round. I could not detect any movement of the bullets in the case necks even though, of course, these bullets are not crimped. The tips of the bottom two bullets were flattened by the front of the magazine. The tip on the top bullet was Knocked out of round by the feeding ramp. Yikes!
I'm confident that when I am done tweaking this rifle I'll be shooting a sub MOA. IF I FEED THEM ONE AT A TIME! But what about when I'm in the field with a full magazine. What can I expect from my second and third shots?
Please help. Thank you
Here's my dilemma: I've never shot a magnum rifle like this before. I wanted to know what the recoil would do to the cartridges in the magazine. I measured each cartridge with calipers and wrote on each one it's COL. I loaded the magazine, it holds three cartridges ,and fired a round. I could not detect any movement of the bullets in the case necks even though, of course, these bullets are not crimped. The tips of the bottom two bullets were flattened by the front of the magazine. The tip on the top bullet was Knocked out of round by the feeding ramp. Yikes!
I'm confident that when I am done tweaking this rifle I'll be shooting a sub MOA. IF I FEED THEM ONE AT A TIME! But what about when I'm in the field with a full magazine. What can I expect from my second and third shots?
Please help. Thank you
Suck it up if a 100 pound woman can shoot it so can you!
12-24-2015, 09:29 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 123
What can I expect from my second and third shots?
I have found next to no effect on group size or down range drop at any reasonable range.
For your confidence level shoot some groups.
I do not crimp my 338 loads and have never had a problem.
I have been shooting a 338 mag since 1978.
I have found next to no effect on group size or down range drop at any reasonable range.
For your confidence level shoot some groups.
I do not crimp my 338 loads and have never had a problem.
I have been shooting a 338 mag since 1978.
12-25-2015, 08:58 AM
#9
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Indiana county, Pa
Posts: 681
at what distances are you planning on shooting? the need for sub MOA with a 338 should not be needed. for hunting purposes it will kill just about anything on the north American continent. I don't think anything hit with a 338 will notice a out of round tip on a bullet. my 06 does the same thing from loading and unloading and ive never had a deer walk away from one of the bullets that the tip was dented or missing. but then again I'm not that picky about my ammo other then it shoots where I aiming. I also reload for my rifles.
12-25-2015, 09:04 AM
#10
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 188
i have the exact same problem with my .300 and haven't noticed any loss of accuracy whatsoever shooting off a bench from a clip or single loading. i expect that would slightly change shooting 500+ yards though.
