precision reloading....
 

i have a buddy that is schooling me in reloading...hes done well as ive shot some nice groups from my whelen already with my own handloaded ammo...

as soon as the weather breaks, im going to start working on my 22-250. i want to squeeze out every bit of accuracy i can....

buddy recommended a hornady OAL gauge and a bullet comparator...i understand their uses...he also recommended a redding competition bullet seating die...hes a BR shooter and knows his stuff and knows that i wanna cut serious holes with the rifle...

but when using a bullet comparator, arent you ALWAYS adjusting the bullet seating die to reach the magic OAL you want?? or am i missing something?? i know good bullets wont vary at the ogive like they do on total length...i measured my OAL of my whelen loads, and due to bullet differences in the tip etc, my OAL was different, therefore effecting accuracy...

i understand all that...and think i got it right...

but with a bullet comparator, your always adjusting your seating die for each bullet multiple times till you hit that magic number? or am i missing something??


also, the OAL gauge, hows that help with accuracy?? i understand it tells you where your bullet meets the bore or whatever...but different guns and loads like seated different distances of the lands...so hows it helpful to use an OAL guage??

thanx guys....id ask the buddy...but i picked his brain...i dont wanna loose him as a coach with some minor/silly questions...

Not really understanding your question. You use a comparitor instead of OAL (tip). Thats it.

You adjust the OAL based off the ogive instead of the tip, and note down the optimal length from the rim to the ogive as it says with your calibers with the comparitor. You set you seating down up to load the bullet to match that number and it doesn't change much.

Accuracy is not based off of tip, but when the bullet meets the rifling (ogive). If you go to the range and find 3.6" OAL for your 300RUM is optimal, and then setup your seater with the first bullet to reach 3.6", and then lock down you seater, you could go back thru the bullets and find they vary in OAL greatly. Your seater plug should be loading the bullet on the ogive not pushing on the tip.

But if you go to the range and find out that 3.85" according to your comparitor/calibers is optimal. Then you setup your first bullet to be 3.85 according to the comparitor, then go back thru all your loads, all should be 3.85"

If you are shooting a factory gun a lot of what you're concerned with isn't going to make that much difference. Also a lot of what you're asking is why he told you to get a comp seater die. Yes, the seating depth will change on every bullet because of variance in ogive's. as a bench rest shooter your buddy is probably seating every bullet to within a .001" This isn't as hard as it may sound, with a comp seater seat all your bullets out a little, then go through and measure them with your bullet comp. seperate your cases by the depth of the bullet then start at the lower end by seating to the exact depth with all those cases, move onto the next which will probably only be another .001" difference so move your seater down .001" and do those, and so on. This will ensure the amount of jump or jam to or into the riffling is the exact same evey time. It takes a little more time but if you have done everything possible to eliminate loading errors you can focus soley on technique and not have to wonder what if I would have seated every bullet to the exact same depth. I once heard a guy who frequents this forum say at a match "A .001" here and a .001" there but with one little puff of wind it's all out the door" Keep working to make the most perfect loads you can then when you spend the money on that custom rifle you'll enjoy it htat much more!

06, I don't think that you'll be able to seat the bullets out far enough to come close to the rifling and still fit in the magazine on your 7600. Every bullet will give you different COL, you could also try the old fashioned way of partially seating a bullet in the case and then chamber it the rifling will push it back into the case, then back off .0020.

thanx guys...that cleared it up....im pretty much brand new to reloading and was overthinking the whole deal...but it all makes sense now...thats why i figured id pick y'alls brains and try to leave my buddy thats helpin me alone...hes gotta have a headache! lol


thndr, its not for the 7600....im about done with that project.... 0.75" at 100yds is plenty fine for that rifle..i just gotta make sure it wasnt a fluke and i'll stick with that load...this is for a m700 22-250...

i know a custom rifle will do just as much for shooting as a great load...but right now i have the ability to work up a great load...so im gunna start there...do i really need to shoot ragged hole groups?? not really...but do i want to? who doesnt?? its my groundhog gun...that 1" flyer at 100yds is a missed groundhog at 400yds...thats how i look at it...yes im going to spend a little more than you would to work up your typical loads...but, accuracy is never cheap...that i know...

i bought the m700 for an out of the box shooter...and that it is..ive fired multiple sub-moa groups at 100yds with it and factory ammo already...a good handload worked up, and a trigger job, and i think i'll see very good shooting from it...but i bought the m700 for an out of the box shooter that i can customize as i go and grow as a shooter and want more out of it...right now, a good load will tighten groups and give more consistent groups...those 1" flyers from inconsistent brass, and loading processes etc make a great group into a bad group..and like i said, thats a missed groundhog at 400yds..

and lets not get into if i wanted a 400yd groundhog gun i shoulda went bigger, ive done 350 with it on more than one occassion...

right now, im no competetion shooter or anything...but i think im slowly working towards it...just taking the scenic route to get there...the more i learn workin with my hunting gun, which is a gun i use regular, the better i become at shooting and loading and everything...

As a new reloader, I'm guessing that you're going to get some satisfactory groups just from getting the case, primer, powder and bullet combo just right. With a good gun, I'll bet you can get half inch groups right there.

In my opinion, adjusting the seating die over and over again for different bullets will become a headache fast.

I would work with a few bullets and powder combos. Decide which bullet shoots the best. Then adjust your die for that bullet's perfect seating depth. Then lock the seating die and never touch it again :D

22-250 for Ghogs, I'd say a good starting point would be the 55 gr Ballistic tip or Vmax. Both will fly flat with extreme terminal performance for as far as you can shoot.

38 gr of H380 is what put the 22-250 on the map. My buddy loads 3031 in his, can't tell you what the charge is though. Nosler's 5'th shows 39.5 gr of H380 as the fastest load and best accuracy.

im actually going to start with 50s....

my rifle seemed to like 50s better than 55s...i shot 55s ALOT...(factory ammo though..)

i was in a jam and couldnt find the 55gr ballistic tips anywhere so had to order them...ghog huntin was at its prime...i NEEDED ammo...i bought a 40rd value pack of 50grJHP UMC junk...that is the ammo that shot sub-moa groups if you believe that....i couldnt...so i had to do it several more times lol...


so im going to start with 50gr NBTs....my buddy actually loaded for someone elses SPS like mine and it really liked Varget so i was going to start with it...i dont know hardly anything about powders....for the whelen i went with RE15 just because it seemed to be the most popular for it....


got to get my stuff in line for that soon...but i wont be shooting till its warmer out...no sense in workin up a load in the cold for a rifle that is shot in extreme heat....id imagine if i was real close to a max in the cold of winter, i could potentially blow up on a 90 degree day in August...and accuracy now is likely going to be different than it is when its warmer...so i wont mess around till the weather breaks...

I just saw an article about different factory ammo shot in a rail gun.

Couple interesting things:

Some of the most accurate loads were some of the cheapest.

The rounds were measured for runout and seating depth variation. Some of the ammo that was put together poorly still shot well, and some that was perfect didn't shoot as well.


I just bring this up to say don't be surprised that cheap ammo shoots well. The biggest difference in price is components used and brand premiums.

Just because your gun shot 50 grn umc's well doesn't mean it will shoot 50 nbt's. If I remember the test, the gun had no preference for bullet weight. Some 50's shot well, some didn't, some 40's shot well, some didn't.

Varget is a good all around choice, and would probably work well in the whelen too. Also Re 15 is good for the .22-250, though I've

Each gun is different and finding out what she likes is most of the fun.

Good Luck.

what i found was the "premium" ammo mattered at 200+...those same 55gr NBTs that got beat at 100 by the cheap JHP really shined at 200 where the consistency and flight of the cheap bullets just couldnt compare...


for short distance, plinking, etc, id have no trouble with the cheap ammo...but it was inconsistent at long ranges and the bullet didnt impress me none at all...had my only few crawl offs with the 22-250 with that ammo...which is why i quit shooting it and went back to paying double...

also pay for premium big game ammo just for the better bullets...not really NEEDED for deer hunting....till you have a cheap bullet fail when you need it to hold together..or need it to expand like it should and it fails to do so...or need it to go off like it should be the ammo is junk and they sale so much 1 complaint out of a million aint to bad...

im glad i started handloading...im already rolling premium ammo below the price of the cheap stuff...not to mention everything else...


didnt realize Varget or RE15 would work in either gun.....and likely 3006 too id assume? lol...didnt know that...like i said...im brand new and dont know anything about powder...

might have to try some different powders that i accumilate from other guns that will work in others...


i was also going to start with 50gr NBTs because my rifling is 1:14...believe its made for somewhat lighter/shorter bullets...so i was going to start at 50gr...i know a few others with the 700SPS and they like the 50gr pills....but mine could be different...we'll find out....

My 30-06 likes IMR4350 the best. Your Whelen might like that, too.



You should start a powder post. Let us know what calibers you are going to load for and we can let you know what works best for our guns of those calibers. Pick which one comes up most and compare it to your reloading manuals.

Do you have any magnums?

thanx RR...might try 55s...any idea of how heavy i can go with 1:14 and not HURT accuracy at all?? i honestly wouldnt mind going a bit heavy...i know lighter bullets and long range arent great things to say in the same sentence for the most part lol....



barnes, i might have to do that....

really only loading for the whelen, the 22-250 and atleast my 3006...maybe 2 of dads if he wants...(thats as of right now...)

the 22-250 is the project...thats the one i wanna get the most out of....

i got a 3/4" group from the whelen at 100yds...i dont know if me and the rifle together can do much better at 100yds...so im more than happy with that...just gotta make sure it repeats!

the mauser, i dont know what to expect from it as its got an original barrel that seen the war...ive never seen GREAT groups from it...but not to say handloads wont change that...

i'll have to look at my manuals...i honestly havent looked at anything but whelen info yet really...i wanted to get it loaded for while its still cold....

the 22-250 wont be till its warm...

and i took the scope off the mauser to shoot the whelen for the time being till i buy the whelen a scope....so cant load for the 06 till fall probably...

That's really good. Once I get to an inch with my hunting rifles, that's where I say "good enough" and use that recipe. If you can put .35 caliber hunting bullets in a 3/4" group at 100 yards, you have a damn fine hunting outfit.

Good luck with the 22.250. Sounds like a fun project. It can be as fun or as maddening as you make it :D

Not sure about that 30-06. Could be the rifle that limits your accuracy. But that Whelen will be an A+ deer and bear slayer.

thanx RR...i know its going to take experimentation...just like to try to get starting points to go off of....


barnes, i thought the same....i loaded up 5 with the same charge last nite...hopefully she shoots as well and i'll be done with the whelen...for now....i wont go back to the range till my trigger spring comes...for some reason its taking forever and a day to get here from half a state away lol....my guess is it shoulda been here but got caught in snow...hopefully monday....

heres the group....and yes, it measuered .74" ceneter to center as i read groups are officially measured..




to me its a 1" group measured as far as you can outside edge to outside edge...but i guess i always cheated myself? lol...but that group makes me more than happy...and i have a gut feeling that i could kept that high one with the other 2...im not used to shootin pretty lil groups..i seen those first 2 and took me 10mins to send the other as i was a bit anxious and excited about the first 2...gotta learn to quit lookin at the other bullets in the paper before the group is done...

It's measured center to center. The center of the hole is where your bullet hit. Outside edge would vary on the tearing of the paper.

If you measured the outside edge, if you had two .458s right next to each other, it would be an inch. The same with a 22 would be .44 inch :D

Measure Outside to Inside, Save on the math

hmmm...thats explained better than some site i tried to read about official group measuring...but i musta done it right...black(dark) edge to dark edge is i hair over 1"...1.1 or less..center of the hole to center of the other farthest hole is right aroung .74ish...so either method gets me there..and i guess if you go outside edge to outside edge and subtract a bullet diameter, its exact...but hard to find an edge unless you got nice black holes like mine lol..

but, from a pump gun, im not sure i can expect a whole heck of alot more....

i got 5 loaded the same...hopefully it shoots that well again...but i wont shoot again till i get my trigger spring in....hopefully here monday...

that group makes me happy...im not one to settle, but reality of it is, im shootin a factory pump gun...im new to handloading...and the rifle is still pretty new..i got around 40 through it now..(actually need to document that before i shoot more just so i know...one thing i havent been writting down..)

but if it shoots that well again, im happy...might mess around with seating depth just to see if i can steal a hair more from her....just because...lol...how many sub-moa pump guns do you hear of? lol..i personally know that alot of them can be very good shooters...but theres a major myth that the rem pump guns arent accurate at all...

just got my fingers crossed thats repeatable...hate driving to the range for fire a 5 shot group and leave...but nothing else shot close to what that did..2 or 3 other charges were 1"-1.25" or so(didnt measure them..) but that one was by far the best..so i wont waste bullets and recoil till i find out if that group is repeatable or not...so im gunna shoot 5 and see what she does...will take a few loads with the same charge seated differently incase it DOES shoot that good again and shoot those and see if i cant tighten it more...if it shoots poor, i'll just pull those and start over...

finally got my trigger spring...im pretty happy with a 10$ part...it lightened it by about half or so...still a creepy sucker...and doesnt break real crisp...but i'll take it over the factory spring that was stiff and took probably double the weight to break it...


now to head to the range...not sure if i'll head today or not...