when testing loads do I need to load in 5 shot groups or 3 would be ok.
My reason asking is, you will never get a tighter pattern than your first 2 shots.

Is there a guage to check run out, and do you have a link

Yep, sinclair makes one, and RCBS makes one. Concentricity guage. http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/...tricity-Gauges

Once you go down this road, ain't no going back.

Thats what I love about metal work and reloading, your limit for precision is endless.

Here is how I load. I load 6 of each load. I shoot a group of three at 100 and another group after it cools down at 200.

Big isnt the runout issue where you usually recommend collet dies?

You know my MO. I went from not knowing what runout was and enjoying shooting, to hearing someone tell me I need to check for wobble, and I seen it, tried squaring my dies (waste of time IMO but I still do it), then changing shell holders, to buying a concentricity gauge, to the dreaded neck turning, then buying competition redding seating dies, to fireforming with cream of wheat, (this point I started making reloading no fun) then finally after all that for years and years, I started using the collet die along with floating my shellholder.

I should have skipped all the rest and just got a collet die and learned how to float my shell holder. It would have saved 1000's of rounds and a lot of head shaking.

LOL I listened to your advice and bought them right off the bat.

Just gonna butt in here and add my $.02 worth....STILL haven't heard from Hornady or Midway about the runout correcter I've ordered. Does anyone have any news on them?
I'm also a firm believer that runout is a group blower and am ANXIOUSLY awaiting the new piece of equipment.......

I still haven't seen any. I have been keeping my eyes peeled on them for ya. When I saw the first one, it didn't look that complicated, surpised they haven't hit the scene yet.

Thanks for the tip bigcuntry Loaded some up today spinning the case and seating a little at a time, worked much better. I cant tell you they have any runout at all, but they dont have any to see with the naked eye and I seated much closer to the lands with out anything touching.

Rolling them on a mirror, one should be able to spot any runout over .005"-.007". Most guns shoot fine with .005" or less.

Overbore calibers with long throats like weatherby's and RUM's don't like any runout over .003" I find. The closer you are able to load to teh lands the less runout is an issue. I don't know this for fact, just what I see from my experiements.