opening up dies
 

Has any one changed the throat size on your dies for another size, 243 to 257. Rich

RE: opening up dies
 

As I said in another forum machining dies is not difficult. Getting the correct size to end up with a finished case neck that allows for tension and bullet pull will be tricky.

RE: opening up dies
 

why?

RE: opening up dies
 

RWK, dies are a finished product, to change the die configurationcan dull your tools, die blanksare available from RCBS for $28.00 - or - a few if you have a reamers. Universal Improved/Wildcat dies have been made for over 40 years, I should say the makers of universal dies did not make it to the INTERNET.

To make sure I understand the question, the throat is part of the chamber, the die controls the dimensions of the case including the neck diameter inside and out, to increase the neckdiameter of the sizing die only, a reamer is required, make the best deal you can, some consider the reamer expensive, and if considering a chamber reamer, the die must allow the reamer to center on the pilot end of the reamer, meaning the reamer must pass through the die that is if the reamer will remove the material.

Dies are available for necked-up/necked-up versions of a parent cartridge. I went to the Dallas Market Hall gun show week before lastlooking for anything 280 Remington, 7MM and 338, I got lucky, I found a 3 dieset of 338 Winchester Mag dies(RCBS) with a neck sizer (C&H) and a 2 die setfor280 Remington (C&H), both setsfor $25.00, the neck sizer would cost that much, the point is, a set of dies for a rifle I chambereddoes not exist, rather than grind, cut or ream the dies with tools I do not have or can not afford to dull and or brake, I will cut the dies with a cut off saw, then butt grind them, the 338 Winchester Mag neck sizer die will be left as it is, the 280 Remington die will be cut offabove the shoulderand ground to allow it to be used as a sizer die forcases usedwith a chamber similar to the 338/06, the neck portion of the 280 die will not be used, just opened and polished. For what I spent, I still have a 280 Seater die and a 2 die set for the 338 Winchester Mag, grinding a die, I have an in-line, angle and butt grinder with coolant to keep the the dust down and metal cool.

F. Guffey

RE: opening up dies
 

RWK, we are just discussing the possibility, the 243 Winchester is shorter from the head of the case to the shoulder by .168 thousands than the 257 Roberts, meaning the 257 Roberts is a necked down 7X57 Mauser, the 243 Winchester is the same length from the head to shoulder as the 308 Winchester and the 7MM/08, there has to be a 257/08 out there somewhere, could be expensive, so are the tools that could be required to alter the die.

F, Guffey

RE: opening up dies
 

I have modified the bottom of dies so that headspace has matched my rifle before. But dies are too cheap to be opening them up at the neck.

RE: opening up dies
 

Why ? When I needed dies for a wildcat round (6mm 30-30 Imp.) I discovered that the lead time to get them was 12 weeks and they cost $140. By purchasing a set of .243 Win dies...Lee RGB dies at $12 a set and a set of cheap 7-30 Waters dies for about the same money. I could modify the seater in one and the sizer from both to get a set of working accurate dies for about $25 and a lead time of a week. By using dies that already have been cut you can use their precut dimensions to your advantage and save a lot of work. That my friend is why...........

Handloading dies are only case hardened and machining is easy once that surface is cut. I did not re-harden the modified dies because for the very small amount of sizing they do it will never be necessary. Handloaded ammo from this gun using these dies will shoot very very small groups. It is a nightmare for prairie dogs out to 350 yds.

RWK - you need .25 Souper dies.

RE: opening up dies
 

I am quite sure that with a set of 25-06 Lee RGB dies and a .308 size die you could easily come up with a working set of dies....but thats just me.

RE: opening up dies
 

Big Country, grinding the bottom of the die is not necessary, RCBS etc., use this method to make custom dies for custom chambers, I short chamber rifles, load for them then go to the range and determine if I want to finish the chamber or use another barrel, all with one set of dies, the purpose for grinding the top off was for sizing a case for a chamber that does not exist in 338, to have a die made in that configuration would cost more than I have in the rifle and to ream a die blank ($28.00)would mean reducing the the neck portion of the reamer, at $100.00 plus to replace a chamber reamer, I had rather dedicate a sizing die for that purpose. I know I could reducethe diameter of the chamber reamer and still ream a chamber if I acquire a reamer for cutting the neck in the chamber.

I size cases with one set of dies from-.016 below a go-gage to infinity.

Grinding the top of a shell holder is not necessary but it is done, Redding competition shell holders are not necessary but if you have them, use them.

F. Guffey

RE: opening up dies
 

Well one, I was not talking about a belted cartridge, and two, I do not barrel guns.

so you suggesting everyone on here invest in lathes???? Not sure why you are replying to me.

RE: opening up dies
 

Given the subject.........thats more than a little confusing.

BC - I have also turned the bottom of a size die off by .005" or so to get the die to completely size to fit a tight chamber.

RE: opening up dies
 

Big Country, forgive, I was responding to the post below:

"I have modified the bottom of dies so that head space has matched my rifle before. But dies are too cheap to be opening them up at the neck". RWK did not say what caliber he was refering to in the first post other than 243 and 257.

I did say it is not necessary to grind the bottom of a die, lower the deck height of a shell holder or purchase small base dies.

A custom die is not cheap, a die that is purchased at a reasonable price does not make it cheap or diminish the quality, I need a die that will size the body and a small part of the shoulder, my time and $10.00 for a set of dies made that possible.

I am also chambering a M1917 barrelwith a chamber that uses the case dimentions of the 7MM Remington Mag,as you said, dies are not expensive, I will make a sizer die using a 7MM Remington Mag..

F. Guffey

RE: opening up dies
 

fguffey i'm looking to make a 25 souper---25-308. I got the reamer for the dies and a chamber reamer,i'm trying to get all the parts together before i start. Rich

RE: opening up dies
 

RWK, it was not confusing, just trying to determine what you were doing. Special order catalogs are available for free, to me most helpful, from 4DC&H and RCBS etc. 1 800 533 5000. The catalog list most combinations of wildcats and improved chambers and the cartridge to use when forming a cartridge for a particular chamber, the forming/trim die is listed when one die can be used to from a case as in 30/06 to 8X57, 7X57 etc., many of the listings indicate 'no formingdie necessary, use the sizer die for a particular chamber' as in 30/06 to 8/06. Having both reamers, chamber and die, is a luxury, as I said before I would not use the die reamer to modify a die as in going from a 243 Winchester (243/08) to a 25 Souper (257/08).

As to being a bit confusing, some of this is not for everyone.., my favorite reamersare the 25/06 AckleyImproved and the 280 Remingtonbut that is another story and again a little confusing.


RCBS sells die blanks.

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=583

F. Guffey

RE: opening up dies
 

I too have mentioned this;
The 22 250 is parented on the 250 3000 aka 250 Savage circa 1925. It is about .16 shorter than the 308. 250 Savage dies are a shelf item if this is a 1 rifle deal use the 250 die to neck and shoulder and a 308 to body size. Or better yet put it in a new action and hop up a 250 + P.

RE: opening up dies
 

Herter66, the savagecase is .414 at the shoulder, the 308 W is .454, .040 larger than 250 or 22-250 savage and .008 larger than the 300 savage.

F. Guffey

RE: opening up dies
 

Shame on me. So a 250 AI would be closer to a 25 08. I'd bet there's a die set for that and proven data. I considered a 25 08 once that was when I found the 250. There have been a couple articals in Handloader and Rifle on the 250.

RE: opening up dies
 

I'm a retired machinist and i getting bored, and want to try something different this will become a over the winter project. Rich

RE: opening up dies
 

RWK, were you allowed to bring the equipment home, finding equipment at an affordable priceand in good shape is not easy.

F. GUffey

RE: opening up dies
 

RWK,

http://newlonprecision.com/

For options, the abover link list die blanks available, the sizer die blank is $59.00 plus shipping, the die is two piece and will take two different piolet sizes, a regular, standard set of dies will do anything a special sizing die will do with the aid of a feeler gage, make cases shorter (small base die) orlonger.

Here is a link to MIDWAYUSA die blanks, http://www.midwayusa.com/esearch.exe/search?search_keywords=die+blanks&category_sel ector=all_products&Click+to+Begin+Search.x=16& amp;Click+to+Begin+Search.y=12

Keep me informed,

F. Guffey

RE: opening up dies
 

Fguffey i'm lucky that i can go back to the shop and do my goverment work.

RE: opening up dies
 

RWK, I have not checked this site for a while,I buy and build computers, setting them up for gun-stuff to road test is not something I do on all of them, I should put the links in an email and connect from there, this one is not fast but I have a lot of time invested, the wife wants to know when I am going to put it togather, it is so ugly I may have to set it up in the garage, there she would not notice it.

Let me know how I can help, it is good that you still have access to equipment.

F, Guffey