New Bullet Design
04-21-2008 | 08:33 AM
#41
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 54
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From:
RE: New Bullet Design
Having played a little hockey growing up in Canada, I really enjoyed your signature line.
I took one of my companies manufacturing processes to China- once. When we got done with that exercise I told everyone involved in my business that from now on if we have to go to China to compete, we just won't be in that business. It is one of the most difficult things to do if you have a highly technical part. If you have close tolerances, and I mean close you have to have as big a staff in China to supervise and manage manufacturing as you do in the US. Our findings were that after investing $2 MM in China, our costs of goods were almost as high as they were here. And the icing on the cake is that you get to deal with all of the Chinese beaurocracy at the same time. Great Deal!!
Fool me once- shame on you. Fool me twice- shame on me. No Thanks.
I took one of my companies manufacturing processes to China- once. When we got done with that exercise I told everyone involved in my business that from now on if we have to go to China to compete, we just won't be in that business. It is one of the most difficult things to do if you have a highly technical part. If you have close tolerances, and I mean close you have to have as big a staff in China to supervise and manage manufacturing as you do in the US. Our findings were that after investing $2 MM in China, our costs of goods were almost as high as they were here. And the icing on the cake is that you get to deal with all of the Chinese beaurocracy at the same time. Great Deal!!
Fool me once- shame on you. Fool me twice- shame on me. No Thanks.
04-21-2008 | 08:52 AM
#42
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,873
Likes: 0
RE: New Bullet Design
Well thats a relief.....We had the same problem....
We got our alum curtainwall from China once and the tolerenceces on that where out a mile not to mention the metal was bent scratched twistedand they probably stuck us with lead paint to boot.
But mix that alum, with precise CNC machinery, and the holes where out by miles just because the metal was that bad..Not to mention we had a tone of damaged material,
and it took weeks to get it replaced.
By the time that job was done and once we figured in all the overtime, and the headaches of communcating with them
it wasn't worth it.
So we went back to Kawneer.
Nice straight clean material
and quick delivery..
We got our alum curtainwall from China once and the tolerenceces on that where out a mile not to mention the metal was bent scratched twistedand they probably stuck us with lead paint to boot.
But mix that alum, with precise CNC machinery, and the holes where out by miles just because the metal was that bad..Not to mention we had a tone of damaged material,
and it took weeks to get it replaced.
By the time that job was done and once we figured in all the overtime, and the headaches of communcating with them
it wasn't worth it.
So we went back to Kawneer.
Nice straight clean materialand quick delivery..
04-21-2008 | 12:05 PM
#43
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,270
Likes: 0
From: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
RE: New Bullet Design
ORIGINAL: fariswm
We expect to greatly increase sectional density and at the same time increasing ballistic coefficient without making the bullet so long you cannot stabilize it without rebarreling your rifle.
If we cannot make the bullet expand properly like a Nosler Partition, we won't bother introducing it. We are not out to build armor piercing rounds. We want bullets that perform well on game and on the range. I expect to hunt Moose in the Yukon this fall with this new round.
I'm glad you brought up the fouling issue, because we do expect some shooters to be driving these bullets at high velocities and we fully expect to minimize fouling with choices of materials and design.
Thanks for the input.
We expect to greatly increase sectional density and at the same time increasing ballistic coefficient without making the bullet so long you cannot stabilize it without rebarreling your rifle.
If we cannot make the bullet expand properly like a Nosler Partition, we won't bother introducing it. We are not out to build armor piercing rounds. We want bullets that perform well on game and on the range. I expect to hunt Moose in the Yukon this fall with this new round.
I'm glad you brought up the fouling issue, because we do expect some shooters to be driving these bullets at high velocities and we fully expect to minimize fouling with choices of materials and design.
Thanks for the input.
The reason I mention this is because any great increase in sectional density over conventional expanding bullets is going to carry with it a greater practical limitation on top velocities attainable with conventional propellants.
If you have a non-canistered propellant available that will permit a great increase in SD without an attendant, unacceptablepressure and velocity cost, then new possibilities emerge. The ideal would be a bullet that will expand at verylow velocities at extreme ranges, yet be tough enough (or whatever!) to expand and retain the expanded form at near-muzzle distances without blowing up.
Such a projectilewould be one which magnifiesthe current properties of the Nosler Partition bullet in regards tothe foregoing comments,by adding distance to each end of the velocity spectrum. Stays together at muzzle distances at high velocities, yet still expands at extreme ranges, such as beyond 500 yards or more.......
Good luck!!
04-21-2008 | 12:47 PM
#45
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: Taking the high ground.....
RE: New Bullet Design
ORIGINAL: eldeguello
The ideal would be a bullet that will expand at verylow velocities at extreme ranges, yet be tough enough (or whatever!) to expand and retain the expanded form at near-muzzle distances without blowing up.
Such a projectilewould be one which magnifiesthe current properties of the Nosler Partition bullet in regards tothe foregoing comments,by adding distance to each end of the velocity spectrum. Stays together at muzzle distances at high velocities, yet still expands at extreme ranges, such as beyond 500 yards or more.......
The ideal would be a bullet that will expand at verylow velocities at extreme ranges, yet be tough enough (or whatever!) to expand and retain the expanded form at near-muzzle distances without blowing up.
Such a projectilewould be one which magnifiesthe current properties of the Nosler Partition bullet in regards tothe foregoing comments,by adding distance to each end of the velocity spectrum. Stays together at muzzle distances at high velocities, yet still expands at extreme ranges, such as beyond 500 yards or more.......
I believe they call 'em X bullets................................
04-21-2008 | 02:10 PM
#46
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,270
Likes: 0
From: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
RE: New Bullet Design
ORIGINAL: fariswm
What you have described is where we hope to arrive.
What you have described is where we hope to arrive.
04-21-2008 | 03:04 PM
#47
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,873
Likes: 0
RE: New Bullet Design
ORIGINAL: Wilds
They've already come up with that...
I believe they call 'em X bullets................................
ORIGINAL: eldeguello
The ideal would be a bullet that will expand at verylow velocities at extreme ranges, yet be tough enough (or whatever!) to expand and retain the expanded form at near-muzzle distances without blowing up.
Such a projectilewould be one which magnifiesthe current properties of the Nosler Partition bullet in regards tothe foregoing comments,by adding distance to each end of the velocity spectrum. Stays together at muzzle distances at high velocities, yet still expands at extreme ranges, such as beyond 500 yards or more.......
The ideal would be a bullet that will expand at verylow velocities at extreme ranges, yet be tough enough (or whatever!) to expand and retain the expanded form at near-muzzle distances without blowing up.
Such a projectilewould be one which magnifiesthe current properties of the Nosler Partition bullet in regards tothe foregoing comments,by adding distance to each end of the velocity spectrum. Stays together at muzzle distances at high velocities, yet still expands at extreme ranges, such as beyond 500 yards or more.......
I believe they call 'em X bullets................................
04-23-2008 | 09:53 AM
#48
Fork Horn
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
RE: New Bullet Design
Lets see with out even a redesigned jacket with sounds to be in order. Just increasing the exsisting bullet profiles by say 25-30% in dencity would be great. Thats a 277cal 130gr profile that would wiegh about 165grs and be around .290 for CSD. Thats cool unless you walk on all fours and have antilers.
04-24-2008 | 01:32 PM
#50
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 54
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From:
RE: New Bullet Design
By increasing the density of the material in the bullet, we will be able to build a heavier bullet on what is now a lighter profile. For example a bullet with the same profile as a current 140 grain 7mm bullet with a new core material that allows 30% increase in density will allow us to make a 182 gr bullet on the same profile as the 140 grain bullet. That is a significant increase in the Sectional Density of the bullet, or weight per unit of frontal area. The SD rises from .248 to .324. A bullet with a sectional density of .324 is considered to be a serious killing machine. As long as the cartridge can drive it at reasonable velocities, the high SD bullet is much more effective at penetrating to and through vital organs, bone, etc. thus the comment that anything on 4 legs would be in serious trouble if we are effective in putting this bullet together.
There is another point to this discussion that involves Ballistic Coefficient. If you have an interest we can address that one too.
There is another point to this discussion that involves Ballistic Coefficient. If you have an interest we can address that one too.