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What do you think??
I think I had posted before about the same thing but don't think I ever got any thoughts.
Would like to hear what others think is happening,I sure am stumped. First off I have 2 rifles,both 22/250,a savage with 26 in barrel and a remington with 24 in barrel. OK loaded up some 40 grain v-max and 40 gr BT useing 10 X powder (34.5 grs.)and wrl primers. Shot both today and in the savage I got small groups and a speed of 4200 fps with the BT and 4146 with the v-max. Next shot the remington with same bullets and load I got good group and fps was 4009 with the BT. Next shot the v-max ( fps varried from 3200 to 3600 fps)couldn't hardly find where they hit on the target board but the ones I found were key holed,tried shooting them at 25 yards and they sprayed all over the target and was key holed. Thought maybe one was bigger in dia than the other but measure the same 224" thought maybe the reason was because one was shorter than the other (.683-v-max vs .687 -BT). I can shoot the BT when I want to shoot a 40 gr bullet in the remington but would like to know the reason why the v-max won't shoot.Does anyone know or anyone want to take a good guess???I just cannot understand the speed drop from one bullet to the other. |
RE: What do you think??
Just looked at my twist rate table. The .22/250 Savage rifle has a twist rate of one turn in 12 inches. The 700 Remington in .22/250 has a twist rate of 1 turn in 14 inches. That's all i know.
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RE: What do you think??
ORIGINAL: herman I think I had posted before about the same thing but don't think I ever got any thoughts. Would like to hear what others think is happening,I sure am stumped. First off I have 2 rifles,both 22/250,a savage with 26 in barrel and a remington with 24 in barrel. OK loaded up some 40 grain v-max and 40 gr BT useing 10 X powder (34.5 grs.)and wrl primers. Shot both today and in the savage I got small groups and a speed of 4200 fps with the BT and 4146 with the v-max. Next shot the remington with same bullets and load I got good group and fps was 4009 with the BT. Next shot the v-max ( fps varried from 3200 to 3600 fps)couldn't hardly find where they hit on the target board but the ones I found were key holed,tried shooting them at 25 yards and they sprayed all over the target and was key holed. Thought maybe one was bigger in dia than the other but measure the same 224" thought maybe the reason was because one was shorter than the other (.683-v-max vs .687 -BT). I can shoot the BT when I want to shoot a 40 gr bullet in the remington but would like to know the reason why the v-max won't shoot.Does anyone know or anyone want to take a good guess???I just cannot understand the speed drop from one bullet to the other. Both of those bullets are certainly short enough to shoot in a 1/14" twist, so that is not the problem. However, it may be that the V-Max bullets are moving so fast in that Remington that the bullet cores are melting and some of the bullets may be disintegrating as a result. This could be confusing to yourchronograph, which would explain the wild velocity variations and the bad grouping of the V-Max bullets. Under such circumstances, many bullets might not be arriving at the target. This happened a lot in the early days of the 220 Swift, among others, until insulating material was placed between the jacket walls and the cores. From the MV readings you are getting from your Savage, I would say such a thing is quite possible with that ammo. Of course, it may be something entirely different, too. This is just a possibility. However, if you see any spirals of sprayed lead around the bullet holes on the targets when shooting the V-Max's, that would support this theory. |
RE: What do you think??
Eldeguello,I think maybe you have something there.And I didn't think much of it at the time,the holes at the 25 yd target were gray colored around the bullet hole some as much as an inch in dia.and all were keyholed.The ones at 100 had no gray color around them just keyholed.
If I wasn't so old and hardheaded I would just chalk it up and forget it but it has just got my curiousity up.And has been bugging me since I left the range. Last night I came up with the idea to try the same thing with a different powder useing a charge that gave me a max speed and the lowest book speed.And see what happens with the 2 different bullets. Thanks for the reply. |
RE: What do you think??
Ok, I got my guess...
How much has the remington been shot? Many times eroded barrels will nick/tear thin jacketed bullets enough to cause detonation with the centripetal force of the bullet rotation. The v-maxes are are right much thinner than the nosler version and I bet that is making the difference. (-other signs-the noslers are slower (chrono'd)in Rem than savage b/c of friction/erosion (2" barrel shouldn't make 200fps)). Sounds like your throat is toast. You can probably set it back; but if you take it off; I'd call Krieger or Lilja and make an order first... As far as the chrono... The bullets are separating & it is (more than likely) picking up fragments and shrapnel that is slowed to wind friction. |
RE: What do you think??
No its not shot out it is new (probably less than 300 shots) through it.The savage is new too,Bought both end of last year.Will be back at the range tuesday and going to try a different powder with min.and max load.Would have just tried a min. load with the 10x but alliant only shows the one load with the 10x and I didn't want to do a lot of guessing.
Below is how the rem (sps) shoots the BT 40 gr with the 10x load. Thanks for the reply,I will post after tuesday of the results.  |
RE: What do you think??
Hmmm...
I thought I had it figured out .... Guess that was my first problem. Let us know what happens with the new powder but I can't imagine the same thing happening at near velocities. If it were me; either way I'd clean the barrel very well (Sweet's 7.62 is one of the best copper removers). Then if you have access to a bore scope, take a look. I have seen more than one Rem with a burr or bad place in the barrel (mass production mishap). A couple even still shot well. But with 300 shot down the tube a simple burr should already be smoothed out ??? I've also seen SOME wore out barrels shoot lights out (only problem is some bullets don't make the target) but again, 300 shots is not the end to a 250. With your description of the 25yrd target, I am pretty sure the bullet is coming apart (chrony speculates to that also), we just need to figure out why. Keep us posted. By the way, that's a pretty good group with the SPS. A buddy also has one in 22/250 that has been transferred into a classic stock and "accurized" that can't hold a candle to that. Maybe we should try some 40's in it... |
RE: What do you think??
If your buddie has some of the 10x and the 40 Bt he should try that load in his,it shoots very good in the savage also with the 26 in barrel.Did he get the one (sps)with the bull barrel or reg barrel? I order a bell and carlson with the full bedding block to go on the 22/250 but ended up with it on a classic 708 ,looks very good,it is tan with black specks.
I put the same medalist stock on a ss rem sps in 270 also and it looks sharp too. The 10x shot pretty good in the savage muzzleloader too but the charge I had to use was really ruff on the shoulder.It also shot good in a 223 cal. , |
RE: What do you think??
Herman,
If you've already gotten good groups out of that Remington, then you don't have a bad barrel or a burr on the crown. If that were the case,that Remington would've shot terrible from the get-go. I think Eldeguello hit the nial on the head. You very well may be pushing those 40gr V-Max too fast. Have you had someone watching while you've been shooting to see if there is a little poof about1/4-1/2 ofway to the target? |
RE: What do you think??
Hey 1-shot haven't seen you post in awhile.Still have my savage ML11 smokeing too.Took one at 230,200 and 170 yds this past year.
I think Eldeguello had it right also but something keeps bugging me,anyhow I have some loaded up to try next week. Anyhow with the savage with the 1;12 twist the v-max shoots fine at around 4100fps.but then with the remington is where they are coming apart and looseing the fps with a 1;14 twist,Doesn't the rem have a slower rpm than the savage with the 1;12.this is where I am hung up at. I had heard you were over in Iraq,a personal thanks for serveing our country. Did you get to hunt any ths past year? |
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