Rem Brass - case seperation
12-02-2006, 05:02 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: S.W. Pa.-- Heart in North Central Pa. mountains-
Posts: 2,600
RE: Rem Brass - case seperation
I would love to know where that shot went when the case ruptured. My bet is that it hit low somewhere. I feel the rupture may have caused some of the gases to move forward to the shoulder area of the chamber where they were sealed off by the casing itself, causing the dents in the casing at that point. The argument to this may be that the vent ot the side of the receiver should have handled the gases from the ruptured casing. That's a thought, anyhow............what do you all think??
12-02-2006, 06:07 PM
#12
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 6,921
RE: Rem Brass - case seperation
ORIGINAL: Pawildman
I would love to know where that shot went when the case ruptured. My bet is that it hit low somewhere. I feel the rupture may have caused some of the gases to move forward to the shoulder area of the chamber where they were sealed off by the casing itself, causing the dents in the casing at that point. The argument to this may be that the vent ot the side of the receiver should have handled the gases from the ruptured casing. That's a thought, anyhow............what do you all think??
I would love to know where that shot went when the case ruptured. My bet is that it hit low somewhere. I feel the rupture may have caused some of the gases to move forward to the shoulder area of the chamber where they were sealed off by the casing itself, causing the dents in the casing at that point. The argument to this may be that the vent ot the side of the receiver should have handled the gases from the ruptured casing. That's a thought, anyhow............what do you all think??
Roskoe, I pitch my brass after the 5x loading, again the wayI was taught with other than standard carts.
Since I need to re-stock my brass for the 7 rem mag, any suggestions? Locally Rem is the most readily available but winchester can be found earlier in the year with ease. Though not opposed to mail order either.
12-04-2006, 09:07 AM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
RE: Rem Brass - case seperation
ORIGINAL: skeeter 7MM
I had a 4 time loaded rem brass seperate just above the belt in my 7mm rem mag the other day while busting a yote. Bullet hit the intended target but exctration of the case was difficult, it ended up seperating leaving the remaining portion in the chamber but when I removed the bolt and tipped it up the case fell out. At the shoulder it has crimple marks and powder burn where I assume the seperation took place. A scope shows no effects to chamber or bore according to my gunsmith. Test fires at the range proved everything is normal and where it should be. Load has shot fine for a couple of years, no pressure signs and this is the first time such a thing has happened to me.(have seen it on the range before just not personally). Powder is RL22 same lot number as previous.
Got me thinking about brass and sizing technique. I was taught and still FL size my brass. I inspect the brass prior to reloading and always work up with different components even though a load may be proven previously. I rarily tumble anymore, just wipe them down and reload. Think I am being particular about my reloading techniques but when something like this happens you wonder just a tad??
I had a 4 time loaded rem brass seperate just above the belt in my 7mm rem mag the other day while busting a yote. Bullet hit the intended target but exctration of the case was difficult, it ended up seperating leaving the remaining portion in the chamber but when I removed the bolt and tipped it up the case fell out. At the shoulder it has crimple marks and powder burn where I assume the seperation took place. A scope shows no effects to chamber or bore according to my gunsmith. Test fires at the range proved everything is normal and where it should be. Load has shot fine for a couple of years, no pressure signs and this is the first time such a thing has happened to me.(have seen it on the range before just not personally). Powder is RL22 same lot number as previous.
Got me thinking about brass and sizing technique. I was taught and still FL size my brass. I inspect the brass prior to reloading and always work up with different components even though a load may be proven previously. I rarily tumble anymore, just wipe them down and reload. Think I am being particular about my reloading techniques but when something like this happens you wonder just a tad??
Your rifle has a "generous" chamber, and your cases are stretching a little in head-to-shoulder dimension on firing each time. You then push the shoulder back on resizing, and every time you fire it, it stretches again until the brass becomes fatigued and cracks-then it leaves the front part of the case in the chamber while the head is extracted! Belted (and rimmed) cases have this problem a lot.
The solution is to set your resizing die out a little, so the shoulders of your cases stay put when you size the brass. You can't really prevent the new cases from being stretched once, unless you go through the drill outlined below with new brass. But you CAN prevent it from happening again and again. If you feel a need to "full-length size" each time, "smoke" a lubed case with a match or candle, screw the sizing die out one thread, then screw it back slowly, testing it each time you turn it in slightly, until the shoulder inside the die just barely touches the case shoulder, then lock the collar at that point.
Personally, for brass fired already in my rifle, I only size enough of the case to get a firm grip on the new bullet......
IF you wish to totally eliminate this problem, starting with new cases, youexpand the case mouth up to .30, or even .338, caliber, then neck it back down to 7mm in increments very gradually, creating a "false shoulder" on each case that you adjust for headspace by checking it in your rifle's chamber as you continue to size it back down, stopping the sizing process when you reach the point that you can JUST BARELY close the bolt on the case with some force. You size all your new brass this way, and you end up with a bunch of funny-looking cases, but ones that are prevented from stretching on firing the first shot by the false shoulder you created to compensate for the slop in your chamber dimensions. I know this is a PITA, but it is the same process you have to go through when creating wildcat cartridges, and it will absolutely prevent case loss due to stretch.
12-06-2006, 08:37 PM
#15
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Posts: 299
RE: Rem Brass - case seperation
Welcome to the world of Remington brass. The only Rem brass I use is 260 Rem, because it's the only factory brass currentlyavailable. Nosler will produce it next year! I'll order 1000 rounds the day they're available.
I average4 of 20 Remcases every time I fire, that have split necks.And it's not even near a max load. I average 10 of 50 right out of the bag that have oversized primer pockets.I have some Winchester 243 brass that I necked and trimmed that works just fine after more than 10 loadings.
I average4 of 20 Remcases every time I fire, that have split necks.And it's not even near a max load. I average 10 of 50 right out of the bag that have oversized primer pockets.I have some Winchester 243 brass that I necked and trimmed that works just fine after more than 10 loadings.
12-07-2006, 10:03 PM
#17
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Utah by way of Pennsylvania
Posts: 395
RE: Rem Brass - case seperation
ORIGINAL: ranger140892
Welcome to the world of Remington brass. The only Rem brass I use is 260 Rem, because it's the only factory brass currentlyavailable. Nosler will produce it next year! I'll order 1000 rounds the day they're available.
I average4 of 20 Remcases every time I fire, that have split necks.And it's not even near a max load. I average 10 of 50 right out of the bag that have oversized primer pockets.I have some Winchester 243 brass that I necked and trimmed that works just fine after more than 10 loadings.
Welcome to the world of Remington brass. The only Rem brass I use is 260 Rem, because it's the only factory brass currentlyavailable. Nosler will produce it next year! I'll order 1000 rounds the day they're available.
I average4 of 20 Remcases every time I fire, that have split necks.And it's not even near a max load. I average 10 of 50 right out of the bag that have oversized primer pockets.I have some Winchester 243 brass that I necked and trimmed that works just fine after more than 10 loadings.
12-10-2006, 08:53 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: S.W. Pa.-- Heart in North Central Pa. mountains-
Posts: 2,600
RE: Rem Brass - case seperation
As far as case stretch goes, smoking a fired case and setting the resize die as Eldeguello suggested should take care of the problem.
As far as the dimpled case goes, from what I got out of the original post, the case was NOT dimpled before firing due to the die being set excessively low. If this was the case, all or most of the cases would have exhibited it before firing. The dimples appear to have occurred in the chamber upon firing and the case rupturing.
As far as the dimpled case goes, from what I got out of the original post, the case was NOT dimpled before firing due to the die being set excessively low. If this was the case, all or most of the cases would have exhibited it before firing. The dimples appear to have occurred in the chamber upon firing and the case rupturing.
12-10-2006, 02:48 PM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
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RE: Rem Brass - case seperation
[quote]ORIGINAL: Pawildman
As far as case stretch goes, smoking a fired case and setting the resize die as Eldeguello suggested should take care of the problem.
As far as the dimpled case goes, from what I got out of the original post, the case was NOT dimpled before firing due to the die being set excessively low. If this was the case, all or most of the cases would have exhibited it before firing. .The dimples appear to have occurred in the chamber upon firing and the case rupturing.[quote]
Most likely rom low chamber pressure due to gas escaping when the case ruptured....
(I've been using R-P, Winchester, Norma, and GI brass now since about 1954, and believe me, they all make some bad stuff once in awhile. Case neck splitting is due to lack of proper annealing. If this is happening with R-P cases, just anneal them before you load them. I've never had any R-P cases with oversize primer pockets - but I have foundsome WW cases that had off-center flash holes. (In factory -loaded .375 H&H ammo......)
As far as case stretch goes, smoking a fired case and setting the resize die as Eldeguello suggested should take care of the problem.
As far as the dimpled case goes, from what I got out of the original post, the case was NOT dimpled before firing due to the die being set excessively low. If this was the case, all or most of the cases would have exhibited it before firing. .The dimples appear to have occurred in the chamber upon firing and the case rupturing.[quote]
Most likely rom low chamber pressure due to gas escaping when the case ruptured....
(I've been using R-P, Winchester, Norma, and GI brass now since about 1954, and believe me, they all make some bad stuff once in awhile. Case neck splitting is due to lack of proper annealing. If this is happening with R-P cases, just anneal them before you load them. I've never had any R-P cases with oversize primer pockets - but I have foundsome WW cases that had off-center flash holes. (In factory -loaded .375 H&H ammo......)
12-10-2006, 05:04 PM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: S.W. Pa.-- Heart in North Central Pa. mountains-
Posts: 2,600
RE: Rem Brass - case seperation
Yep. As far as neck splitting goes, which really didn't seem to be a concern at this time for the poster, annealing is a fairly simple operation and is covered by some of the reloading manuals. The older Lyman books described it, I believe, for one...........