The theory behind the 6.8mm Remington SPC
11-23-2006, 05:53 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,572
RE: The theory behind the 6.8mm Remington SPC
ORIGINAL: HighDesertWolf
how do you figure?? the 6.8 has a ton more thump than a 5.56mm with the .277 dia bullet, higher bullet weights (100 - 115 grain) and much higher BC making the 6.8 much more powerful then 5.56mm.
from the muzzle to 1000 yards the 6.8 spc has roughly twice the kinetic energy of the 5.56mm. Power and energy wise the 6.8 spc is very comparable to a 250 savage which is known as a really good deer cartridge.
ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack
Geneva Convention states we cannot use an expandable bullet. So what makes the 6.8 better/more deadly?
It certainly doesn't have much in teh way of power/energy.
Geneva Convention states we cannot use an expandable bullet. So what makes the 6.8 better/more deadly?
It certainly doesn't have much in teh way of power/energy.
from the muzzle to 1000 yards the 6.8 spc has roughly twice the kinetic energy of the 5.56mm. Power and energy wise the 6.8 spc is very comparable to a 250 savage which is known as a really good deer cartridge.
Also the BC on the 6.8 isn't any higher than for a .223 match bullet.
The .308 has more than 1k ft/lbs at every range and also shoots flatter!
Do you see where I'm coming from?
I'm sure you're not trying to blow smoke up my ass but a 200 ft/lb improvement isn't much of an improvement.
11-24-2006, 04:12 AM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: A flat lander lost in the mountains of Northern,AZ
Posts: 3,171
RE: The theory behind the 6.8mm Remington SPC
ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack
No it doesn't. I has between 200-300 ft/lbs more energy at every range than the 6.8. I looked at every round Remington has for both. They aren't that far apart. And the trajectory on the 6.8 is less flat.
Also the BC on the 6.8 isn't any higher than for a .223 match bullet.
The .308 has more than 1k ft/lbs at every range and also shoots flatter!
Do you see where I'm coming from?
I'm sure you're not trying to blow smoke up my ass but a 200 ft/lb improvement isn't much of an improvement.
ORIGINAL: HighDesertWolf
how do you figure?? the 6.8 has a ton more thump than a 5.56mm with the .277 dia bullet, higher bullet weights (100 - 115 grain) and much higher BC making the 6.8 much more powerful then 5.56mm.
from the muzzle to 1000 yards the 6.8 spc has roughly twice the kinetic energy of the 5.56mm. Power and energy wise the 6.8 spc is very comparable to a 250 savage which is known as a really good deer cartridge.
ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack
Geneva Convention states we cannot use an expandable bullet. So what makes the 6.8 better/more deadly?
It certainly doesn't have much in teh way of power/energy.
Geneva Convention states we cannot use an expandable bullet. So what makes the 6.8 better/more deadly?
It certainly doesn't have much in teh way of power/energy.
from the muzzle to 1000 yards the 6.8 spc has roughly twice the kinetic energy of the 5.56mm. Power and energy wise the 6.8 spc is very comparable to a 250 savage which is known as a really good deer cartridge.
Also the BC on the 6.8 isn't any higher than for a .223 match bullet.
The .308 has more than 1k ft/lbs at every range and also shoots flatter!
Do you see where I'm coming from?
I'm sure you're not trying to blow smoke up my ass but a 200 ft/lb improvement isn't much of an improvement.
no I dont because you are comparing a 223 match bullet to .277" dia hunting bullets which will have far lower BC's then match bullets...... gotta compare apples with apples here buddy....
I got my figures using long range ballistic tables in the back of my RCBS reloading manual. I used the BC's of a 62 grain .224 dia bthp match bullet and a 115 grain .277 dia. bthp match bullet. when using the given chart for specific yardage for that specific BC and velocity range. then using the kinetic energy conversion equasion also in the book and converting all the data for kinetic energy from the velocity I determined that the 6.8 spc with the same style of bullet as a .223 would have atleast twice the KE out to 500 yards I then confirmed my findings on my buddies sierra ballistic software and also determined my finding were also true for ranges from 500 to 1000 yards.
11-24-2006, 07:46 AM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
RE: The theory behind the 6.8mm Remington SPC
ORIGINAL: ShatoDavis
It was designed to add more stopping power to the M16. The guidelines where for it to be a simple conversion in the M16, Ie barrel swap. That being said it had to use the same bolt. the 5.56 Nato has a .378" case head, so the new round must as well. So what you have is a 223 necked up to accept a 270 cal bullet.But, I would probably be searching for a M14 shooting 7.62 Nato, also known as the 308, which is a far better round.
It was designed to add more stopping power to the M16. The guidelines where for it to be a simple conversion in the M16, Ie barrel swap. That being said it had to use the same bolt. the 5.56 Nato has a .378" case head, so the new round must as well. So what you have is a 223 necked up to accept a 270 cal bullet.But, I would probably be searching for a M14 shooting 7.62 Nato, also known as the 308, which is a far better round.
The .30 Remington has a head diameter of .421", and is essentially a RIMLESS.30/30 case. So an M16 will need a different bolt face, as well as a new barrel, to use the 6.8 SPC.
There is NO WAY this6.8 is as effective as the 7.62mm NATO round, but it has to be an improvement over the 5.56mm. As far as sporting applications are concerned, it will no doubt kill deer. But is it BETTER (or even equal to) such little rounds as the 6mm Rem. or .257 Roberrts (let alonesuch things as the.270WIN., 7X57mm or .280 Rem.)?? I really doubt it!
11-24-2006, 09:09 AM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,572
RE: The theory behind the 6.8mm Remington SPC
ORIGINAL: HighDesertWolf
no I dont because you are comparing a 223 match bullet to .277" dia hunting bullets which will have far lower BC's then match bullets...... gotta compare apples with apples here buddy....
I got my figures using long range ballistic tables in the back of my RCBS reloading manual. I used the BC's of a 62 grain .224 dia bthp match bullet and a 115 grain .277 dia. bthp match bullet. when using the given chart for specific yardage for that specific BC and velocity range. then using the kinetic energy conversion equasion also in the book and converting all the data for kinetic energy from the velocity I determined that the 6.8 spc with the same style of bullet as a .223 would have atleast twice the KE out to 500 yards I then confirmed my findings on my buddies sierra ballistic software and also determined my finding were also true for ranges from 500 to 1000 yards.
no I dont because you are comparing a 223 match bullet to .277" dia hunting bullets which will have far lower BC's then match bullets...... gotta compare apples with apples here buddy....
I got my figures using long range ballistic tables in the back of my RCBS reloading manual. I used the BC's of a 62 grain .224 dia bthp match bullet and a 115 grain .277 dia. bthp match bullet. when using the given chart for specific yardage for that specific BC and velocity range. then using the kinetic energy conversion equasion also in the book and converting all the data for kinetic energy from the velocity I determined that the 6.8 spc with the same style of bullet as a .223 would have atleast twice the KE out to 500 yards I then confirmed my findings on my buddies sierra ballistic software and also determined my finding were also true for ranges from 500 to 1000 yards.
I'm not calling you a liar or anythingbutthe 6.8 doesn't even have the potentialto yield that much energy let alone actually yield it now.
The hottest load data I could find would still only yield just over 1700 ft/lbsat the muzzle. That isonly about 400 ft/lbs more than the .223. Not even close to double.
The 115 gr. bullet in the 6.8 would have to begoing over 3100 fps in order to produce twice the energy of a .223 at the muzzle. The fastest I could find was just over 2600 fps.
11-24-2006, 09:42 AM
#15
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,127
RE: The theory behind the 6.8mm Remington SPC
I know this ballistic numbers thing is realinteresting; but the actual battlefield knock down power of the 115 gr. FMJ 6.8 SPC load, compared to our current5.56 NATO military round, is going to be better due to the biggerwound channelof the SPC. As I said before, this is really more of a bullet issue than a caliber issue; but nonetheless a problem for our troops current serving in the great sandbox.
11-25-2006, 02:24 AM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: A flat lander lost in the mountains of Northern,AZ
Posts: 3,171
RE: The theory behind the 6.8mm Remington SPC
ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack
Well something you did doesn't work out right because nothing like that is reflected by the ammo manufacturers.
I'm not calling you a liar or anythingbutthe 6.8 doesn't even have the potentialto yield that much energy let alone actually yield it now.
The hottest load data I could find would still only yield just over 1700 ft/lbsat the muzzle. That isonly about 400 ft/lbs more than the .223. Not even close to double.
The 115 gr. bullet in the 6.8 would have to begoing over 3100 fps in order to produce twice the energy of a .223 at the muzzle. The fastest I could find was just over 2600 fps.
ORIGINAL: HighDesertWolf
no I dont because you are comparing a 223 match bullet to .277" dia hunting bullets which will have far lower BC's then match bullets...... gotta compare apples with apples here buddy....
I got my figures using long range ballistic tables in the back of my RCBS reloading manual. I used the BC's of a 62 grain .224 dia bthp match bullet and a 115 grain .277 dia. bthp match bullet. when using the given chart for specific yardage for that specific BC and velocity range. then using the kinetic energy conversion equasion also in the book and converting all the data for kinetic energy from the velocity I determined that the 6.8 spc with the same style of bullet as a .223 would have atleast twice the KE out to 500 yards I then confirmed my findings on my buddies sierra ballistic software and also determined my finding were also true for ranges from 500 to 1000 yards.
no I dont because you are comparing a 223 match bullet to .277" dia hunting bullets which will have far lower BC's then match bullets...... gotta compare apples with apples here buddy....
I got my figures using long range ballistic tables in the back of my RCBS reloading manual. I used the BC's of a 62 grain .224 dia bthp match bullet and a 115 grain .277 dia. bthp match bullet. when using the given chart for specific yardage for that specific BC and velocity range. then using the kinetic energy conversion equasion also in the book and converting all the data for kinetic energy from the velocity I determined that the 6.8 spc with the same style of bullet as a .223 would have atleast twice the KE out to 500 yards I then confirmed my findings on my buddies sierra ballistic software and also determined my finding were also true for ranges from 500 to 1000 yards.
I'm not calling you a liar or anythingbutthe 6.8 doesn't even have the potentialto yield that much energy let alone actually yield it now.
The hottest load data I could find would still only yield just over 1700 ft/lbsat the muzzle. That isonly about 400 ft/lbs more than the .223. Not even close to double.
The 115 gr. bullet in the 6.8 would have to begoing over 3100 fps in order to produce twice the energy of a .223 at the muzzle. The fastest I could find was just over 2600 fps.
11-25-2006, 10:49 AM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,572
RE: The theory behind the 6.8mm Remington SPC
ORIGINAL: HighDesertWolf
to give you specifics from my finding heres a a make shift graph to show you the KE comparisons. the further they get out there in range the 6.8 has well over twice the KE and at over 500 yards the 6.8 begins to retain a KE that is nearly triple that of the .223 I know at the muzzle its not twice the KE but its still 740 ft lbs more, thats the KE of a 44 mag more at the muzzle over the .223. I dont understand how you can say that its not much of an improvement?? its a drastic improvement!!! just so you know the velocities listed in the graph were velocity listed in remingtons ammo catalog.
ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack
Well something you did doesn't work out right because nothing like that is reflected by the ammo manufacturers.
I'm not calling you a liar or anythingbutthe 6.8 doesn't even have the potentialto yield that much energy let alone actually yield it now.
The hottest load data I could find would still only yield just over 1700 ft/lbsat the muzzle. That isonly about 400 ft/lbs more than the .223. Not even close to double.
The 115 gr. bullet in the 6.8 would have to begoing over 3100 fps in order to produce twice the energy of a .223 at the muzzle. The fastest I could find was just over 2600 fps.
ORIGINAL: HighDesertWolf
no I dont because you are comparing a 223 match bullet to .277" dia hunting bullets which will have far lower BC's then match bullets...... gotta compare apples with apples here buddy....
I got my figures using long range ballistic tables in the back of my RCBS reloading manual. I used the BC's of a 62 grain .224 dia bthp match bullet and a 115 grain .277 dia. bthp match bullet. when using the given chart for specific yardage for that specific BC and velocity range. then using the kinetic energy conversion equasion also in the book and converting all the data for kinetic energy from the velocity I determined that the 6.8 spc with the same style of bullet as a .223 would have atleast twice the KE out to 500 yards I then confirmed my findings on my buddies sierra ballistic software and also determined my finding were also true for ranges from 500 to 1000 yards.
no I dont because you are comparing a 223 match bullet to .277" dia hunting bullets which will have far lower BC's then match bullets...... gotta compare apples with apples here buddy....
I got my figures using long range ballistic tables in the back of my RCBS reloading manual. I used the BC's of a 62 grain .224 dia bthp match bullet and a 115 grain .277 dia. bthp match bullet. when using the given chart for specific yardage for that specific BC and velocity range. then using the kinetic energy conversion equasion also in the book and converting all the data for kinetic energy from the velocity I determined that the 6.8 spc with the same style of bullet as a .223 would have atleast twice the KE out to 500 yards I then confirmed my findings on my buddies sierra ballistic software and also determined my finding were also true for ranges from 500 to 1000 yards.
I'm not calling you a liar or anythingbutthe 6.8 doesn't even have the potentialto yield that much energy let alone actually yield it now.
The hottest load data I could find would still only yield just over 1700 ft/lbsat the muzzle. That isonly about 400 ft/lbs more than the .223. Not even close to double.
The 115 gr. bullet in the 6.8 would have to begoing over 3100 fps in order to produce twice the energy of a .223 at the muzzle. The fastest I could find was just over 2600 fps.
Try again. The velocities listed by Remington for the 115 gr. are all 2625 fps.
11-27-2006, 04:47 AM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: A flat lander lost in the mountains of Northern,AZ
Posts: 3,171
RE: The theory behind the 6.8mm Remington SPC
ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack
Try again. The velocities listed by Remington for the 115 gr. are all 2625 fps.
ORIGINAL: HighDesertWolf
to give you specifics from my finding heres a a make shift graph to show you the KE comparisons. the further they get out there in range the 6.8 has well over twice the KE and at over 500 yards the 6.8 begins to retain a KE that is nearly triple that of the .223 I know at the muzzle its not twice the KE but its still 740 ft lbs more, thats the KE of a 44 mag more at the muzzle over the .223. I dont understand how you can say that its not much of an improvement?? its a drastic improvement!!! just so you know the velocities listed in the graph were velocity listed in remingtons ammo catalog.
ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack
Well something you did doesn't work out right because nothing like that is reflected by the ammo manufacturers.
I'm not calling you a liar or anythingbutthe 6.8 doesn't even have the potentialto yield that much energy let alone actually yield it now.
The hottest load data I could find would still only yield just over 1700 ft/lbsat the muzzle. That isonly about 400 ft/lbs more than the .223. Not even close to double.
The 115 gr. bullet in the 6.8 would have to begoing over 3100 fps in order to produce twice the energy of a .223 at the muzzle. The fastest I could find was just over 2600 fps.
ORIGINAL: HighDesertWolf
no I dont because you are comparing a 223 match bullet to .277" dia hunting bullets which will have far lower BC's then match bullets...... gotta compare apples with apples here buddy....
I got my figures using long range ballistic tables in the back of my RCBS reloading manual. I used the BC's of a 62 grain .224 dia bthp match bullet and a 115 grain .277 dia. bthp match bullet. when using the given chart for specific yardage for that specific BC and velocity range. then using the kinetic energy conversion equasion also in the book and converting all the data for kinetic energy from the velocity I determined that the 6.8 spc with the same style of bullet as a .223 would have atleast twice the KE out to 500 yards I then confirmed my findings on my buddies sierra ballistic software and also determined my finding were also true for ranges from 500 to 1000 yards.
no I dont because you are comparing a 223 match bullet to .277" dia hunting bullets which will have far lower BC's then match bullets...... gotta compare apples with apples here buddy....
I got my figures using long range ballistic tables in the back of my RCBS reloading manual. I used the BC's of a 62 grain .224 dia bthp match bullet and a 115 grain .277 dia. bthp match bullet. when using the given chart for specific yardage for that specific BC and velocity range. then using the kinetic energy conversion equasion also in the book and converting all the data for kinetic energy from the velocity I determined that the 6.8 spc with the same style of bullet as a .223 would have atleast twice the KE out to 500 yards I then confirmed my findings on my buddies sierra ballistic software and also determined my finding were also true for ranges from 500 to 1000 yards.
I'm not calling you a liar or anythingbutthe 6.8 doesn't even have the potentialto yield that much energy let alone actually yield it now.
The hottest load data I could find would still only yield just over 1700 ft/lbsat the muzzle. That isonly about 400 ft/lbs more than the .223. Not even close to double.
The 115 gr. bullet in the 6.8 would have to begoing over 3100 fps in order to produce twice the energy of a .223 at the muzzle. The fastest I could find was just over 2600 fps.
Try again. The velocities listed by Remington for the 115 gr. are all 2625 fps.
what catalog are you looking at maybe a 2006? well they must have down graded it or something because im looking right at my 2005 remington catalog and it clearly shows 2800 fps.
11-27-2006, 11:19 PM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Body in SE WI, mind in U.P.
Posts: 4,781
RE: The theory behind the 6.8mm Remington SPC
Huge waste of money developing and testing it. 7.62x39 would be a much better combat round if we needed to go in that direction, and there is almost an inexhaustable supply of it in existance. I'm not so sure the .22 poodle shooter round currently in service lacks the stopping power as urban legends would have you believe- even the russians have gone to a .22 rifle round in the AKs, and its not because of political cronyism, industrial bribes, or because they they like developing inferior military equipment that they ended up there.