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-   -   Vindman May Get Booted From NSC (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/politics/422751-vindman-may-get-booted-nsc.html)

Fieldmouse 02-07-2020 02:47 AM

Vindman May Get Booted From NSC
 
All I can say is, Its about time! This man forgot who he works for and who is in charge of foreign policy. His testimony alone should have been good enough to get rid of him when he admitted he was motivated by a difference in policy from that of his boss. Then couple the fact he violated his own job requirements and his oath to the constitution, he needs to face an investigation and court martial if the allegations prove true.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/whi...-against-trump

grouch55 02-07-2020 06:07 AM

Libs are now finding out there is consequences to being on the losing side

Alsatian 02-07-2020 11:06 AM


Originally Posted by grouch55 (Post 4370219)
Libs are now finding out there is consequences to being on the losing side

I don't know the particulars, and the article does not elaborate. I would present your idea differently. Undermining your superior is not desirable. Disagreement, presenting a contrary analysis is often desired. At the same time, the ultimate decision remains with the boss, and the subordinates must carry out the boss's decision. If this guy leaked information, took action to undermine the president, resisted his orders in any of the myriad ways people can resist such orders . . . yes, it is just that he be booted. We didn't elect Vindman, we elected Donald Trump. Mostly we elected Donald Trump because we DIDN'T like the status quo of a lot of things, including US foreign policy. You bet Trump's foreign policy is going to look different from Obama's foreign policy. You bet Trump's foreign policy is going to look different from Bush's foreign policy. You bet Trump's foreign policy is going to look different from Bill Clinton's foreign policy. I would not look back on any of those presidencies -- and that is 24 years of foreign policy for those weak in arithmetic -- as setting standards of good foreign policy. I would go further and suggest there are a heck of a lot of foreign policy professionals and academics who have their heads up their butts, if it can be inferred that they had something to do with that 24 years of foreign policy.

Oldtimr 02-07-2020 11:24 AM


Originally Posted by Alsatian (Post 4370247)
I don't know the particulars, and the article does not elaborate. I would present your idea differently. Undermining your superior is not desirable. Disagreement, presenting a contrary analysis is often desired. At the same time, the ultimate decision remains with the boss, and the subordinates must carry out the boss's decision. If this guy leaked information, took action to undermine the president, resisted his orders in any of the myriad ways people can resist such orders . . . yes, it is just that he be booted. We didn't elect Vindman, we elected Donald Trump. Mostly we elected Donald Trump because we DIDN'T like the status quo of a lot of things, including US foreign policy. You bet Trump's foreign policy is going to look different from Obama's foreign policy. You bet Trump's foreign policy is going to look different from Bush's foreign policy. You bet Trump's foreign policy is going to look different from Bill Clinton's foreign policy. I would not look back on any of those presidencies -- and that is 24 years of foreign policy for those weak in arithmetic -- as setting standards of good foreign policy. I would go further and suggest there are a heck of a lot of foreign policy professionals and academics who have their heads up their butts, if it can be inferred that they had something to do with that 24 years of foreign policy.

Absolutely, correct, it is a lot more than being n the losing side, he colluded against the President of the US who happened to be his boss. There seemed to be a lot of that going on in the system Hillary and Obama set up before they left office to usurp the President. Sounds pretty much like treason to me. There has to be ramifications against those deep state traitors and it needs to be swift so as prevent it from happening again. People need to go to prison!

dhasemann 02-07-2020 12:12 PM

Trump should fire every Obama hire and appointee he has the legal authority to fire.

flags 02-07-2020 03:50 PM

There is no "might" to it. He was fired from the NSC this afternoon and removed from the from the building by other employees. He is still on active duty in the Army but will have to be reassigned. If I was calling the shots I'd billet him at the most remote ammo dump in Backwater USA and leave him there. His military career is over because he will never advance to full bird and I don't think he has his 20 years yet. If he gets passed over for 3 consecutive cycles he will be sent home.

I spent a long time in uniform and I saw this guy testify in real time. I assure you he is the type of officer everyone hates.

Fieldmouse 02-07-2020 04:28 PM


Originally Posted by flags (Post 4370272)

I spent a long time in uniform and I saw this guy testify in real time. I assure you he is the type of officer everyone hates.

I spent long enough to learn there were many in power who shouldn't have been. When I was in, there was no limit on how long you could remain and not advance. The issue became, just having the name in the hopper got you quality points to where eventually they had to advance you. Nothing takes the cake as mush as a 20 year first class.

CalHunter 02-07-2020 05:58 PM

I agree FM. It's about time.

sconnyhunter 02-07-2020 07:07 PM

Vindman and his BROTHER were both ousted today. As well as Amb. Sondland being recalled to Washington.


https://www.businessinsider.com/yevg...as-alex-2020-2


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gor...ment-testimony

Good bye, and GOOD RIDDANCE.

Lunkerdog 02-07-2020 08:17 PM

Interesting days coming!!!

Oldtimr 02-08-2020 02:36 AM

I suspect there is a lot of paranoia i DC right now, and there should be.

CalHunter 02-08-2020 03:21 AM

Good riddance. Trump honestly needs to clean house if he wants to move forward and achieve more.

Fieldmouse 02-08-2020 03:35 AM


Originally Posted by Oldtimr (Post 4370293)
I suspect there is a lot of piano i DC right now, and there should be.

its going to happen. Dan Bongino has been really good over these last few years in pulling all the media reports together. While those in power have been leaking tidbits here and there to throw off suspicion or other reporters have dug up information to prove the source was lying, he has linked Hillary gate, spygate, Russian collusion hoax and know the Ukraine hoax. They are all the same people. They all know each other. They all have worked together and crossed paths. As he like to say it, they all have something to hide. His podcast yesterday was a really good one that walked through a lot of these links using the evidence we all have in the public domain. I don't need to repeat this for the folks who aren't inoculated against facts but its Hillary and Obama in collusion with the Russians to take Trump to cover it all up.

They need to stop the investigations before it all is revealed. just recently Schiff has ask the DOJ to go after Freddie Prince of Blzckwater fame. Why, because the Russian he was brought into meet with is a key figure in Hillary's world. Prince needs to be shut up.

The Rev 02-08-2020 06:07 AM


Originally Posted by CalHunter (Post 4370294)
Good riddance. Trump honestly needs to clean house if he wants to move forward and achieve more.

Ditto; I sure hope more get the boot.

Oldtimr 02-08-2020 07:17 AM


Originally Posted by flags (Post 4370272)
There is no "might" to it. He was fired from the NSC this afternoon and removed from the from the building by other employees. He is still on active duty in the Army but will have to be reassigned. If I was calling the shots I'd billet him at the most remote ammo dump in Backwater USA and leave him there. His military career is over because he will never advance to full bird and I don't think he has his 20 years yet. If he gets passed over for 3 consecutive cycles he will be sent home.

I spent a long time in uniform and I saw this guy testify in real time. I assure you he is the type of officer everyone hates.

The ax fell on his brother as well!

Alsatian 02-08-2020 04:56 PM

The Democrats and media are again bloviating about these things, as if serving in high level positions in the executive branch is a sinecure and if they go rogue Trump just has to live with that. They are deluded.

This again makes me reflect on the madness of Democrats and the media. One needs to maintain one's perspective in this crap-storm of propaganda and misinformation. Trump needs no excuse to remove these people from their responsibilities. They were not elected. Trump does not need to say "mother may I?" before taking action. He does not need to ask CNN's permission to act. He does not need to ask Nancy Pelosi's permission to act. He needs and has every right to demand loyalty from his subordinates.

I have not quoted Machiavelli for several weeks, so time is ripe:

"Most men are satisfied with appearances as though they were realities and are often even more influenced by things that seem than by those that are." "Discourses" book I, chapter 25

The point? This is not a cover up, it is a president wielding legitimate constitutional authority. He cannot possibly execute his office well when his staff and administration is infected with disloyal, back stabbers and leakers. Let those who have eyes see, let those who have ears hear.

flags 02-09-2020 05:59 AM

A lot of uninformed people are screaming to the heavens about this being "retaliation and punishment" and that is simply not the case. What happened was that a mid grade officer was insubordinate and bypassed his chain of command and was openly antagonistic to the Commander in Chief. As such his chain of command lost faith and confidence in him and removed him from is duty assignment. This sort of thing is actually fairly common in the military. The clown was NOT reduced in rank and did not have his pay docked. He was not subjected to either a court martial or nonjudicial punishment despite both being authorized under the UCMJ. He will still draw full pay, retain his rank and will be reassigned to another duty assignment. How he succeeds at a new duty assignment is completely up to him, just as it was up to me when I was on active duty.

Mickey Finn 02-09-2020 05:37 PM


Originally Posted by flags (Post 4370352)
A lot of uninformed people are screaming to the heavens about this being "retaliation and punishment" and that is simply not the case. What happened was that a mid grade officer was insubordinate and bypassed his chain of command and was openly antagonistic to the Commander in Chief. As such his chain of command lost faith and confidence in him and removed him from is duty assignment. This sort of thing is actually fairly common in the military. The clown was NOT reduced in rank and did not have his pay docked. He was not subjected to either a court martial or nonjudicial punishment despite both being authorized under the UCMJ. He will still draw full pay, retain his rank and will be reassigned to another duty assignment. How he succeeds at a new duty assignment is completely up to him, just as it was up to me when I was on active duty.

It's clearly retaliation.

elkman30 02-09-2020 06:54 PM

I think that's a stretch.

C. Davis 02-09-2020 07:45 PM


Originally Posted by Mickey Finn (Post 4370401)
It's clearly retaliation.

I think they are just some guys who used to work at the pleasure of the President.

C. Davis

Champlain Islander 02-10-2020 02:12 AM


Originally Posted by Mickey Finn (Post 4370401)
It's clearly retaliation.

Of course it is but since they served at the pleasure of the president he has the right to remove them. The White House door must have some strong hinges since it swings open then shut so often. Trumps history is that he doesnt keep people around him for very long. People know that when they take a job so that's just the way it goes.

Fieldmouse 02-10-2020 02:45 AM


Originally Posted by Mickey Finn (Post 4370401)
It's clearly retaliation.

you see no problem with an advisor in a sensitive position on NSC to the President going beyond his duty and providing advise to a foreign entity behind the scenes? That doesn't set off any alarm bells in your book? That was his testimony before the house.

Mickey Finn 02-10-2020 03:24 AM


Originally Posted by Fieldmouse (Post 4370409)
you see no problem with an advisor in a sensitive position on NSC to the President going beyond his duty and providing advise to a foreign entity behind the scenes? That doesn't set off any alarm bells in your book? That was his testimony before the house.

I think that's your interpretation of his testimony. But either way, there were two paths President Trump could have taken post Acquittal. The path he took with retaliation against people who believed they were doing their duty is not surprising. By that I mean, it was in keeping with his personality type.

sconnyhunter 02-10-2020 04:08 AM


Originally Posted by Mickey Finn (Post 4370410)
I think that's your interpretation of his testimony. But either way, there were two paths President Trump could have taken post Acquittal. The path he took with retaliation against people who believed they were doing their duty is not surprising. By that I mean, it was in keeping with his personality type.

How many times have you acted in Opposition to your boss and been able to keep your job.
As I recall, VINDMAN was the only call witness, who testified. The remaining 17 "witnesses" were all OPINION witnesses. Who had not actual facts to add. They were and ARE a bunch of butthurt children (read: democrats) who were mad that their advice wasn't sought or listened to.
If you're convinced that Trump is such a bad actor, don't vote for him in Nov.
Myself? I'm voting for him. He's been a positive for this nation.
He has placed OUR needs ahead of the rest of the worlds.

Oldtimr 02-10-2020 04:29 AM

Mickey would vote for Joe Stallin if he was running. "Workers of the world unite"!

Champlain Islander 02-10-2020 05:47 AM

Ironically this whole impeachment fiasco has done nothing other than to set the stage for a total takeover of the GOP and government by Trump. He is more powerful now than ever. He could have come off that impeachment in one of 2 ways and he chose to come out guns blazing. The Dems now know they unleashed a force that they can't contain. One can rest assure that Trump, in his presidential capacity will do all he can to punish those he feels went up against him from both parties. He got to where he is in business by playing hard ball and being ruthless using his power and money to get what he wants. Now he has another tool at his disposal...the almost unlimited power of the presidency.

Oldtimr 02-10-2020 06:29 AM

I will have to disagree that he has unlimited power. The constitution controls his power. What he will have is support from those who in the past did not support him because they now can clearly see the corruption and viciousness of the democrats of the democrats who somehow believe they have manifest destiny to have the Presidency and saw it snatched away from them by an outsider and fomented a lie over 2 years and ginned up a coup which fortunately for the country failed. We now get to watch them eat their young as they jockey for position to hang on to the power they still have. It will be an interesting chain of events to watch. So far as Trump punishing the democrats who tried to overthrow him goes, he absolutely needs to do that and he needs to expose every member of the deep state that orchestrated it and people should go to prison so the country can see what happens to traitorous scum who behaved as though our country is a Banana Republic. I want to see democrat blood on the ground,(figuratively), of course, but inside I wouldn't mind literally, however, that would make us as bad as them. I want to see Trump win in the next election and watch the democrats squirm and writhe in their agony as the House is regained by the Republicans as well as gaining more seats in the Senate so they will be unstoppable in appointing Circuit court and Supreme Court Justices so our country can be set back on a proper Constitutional course. Rant ended!

Champlain Islander 02-10-2020 06:35 AM

I see Trump taking the line of power far beyond what has ever been reached by any President. After all this I doubt anyone from either party will dare to go up against him.

Originally Posted by Oldtimr (Post 4370419)
I want to see Trump win in the next election and watch the democrats squirm and writhe in their agony as the House is regained by the Republicans as well as gaining more seats in the Senate so they will be unstoppable in appointing Circuit court and Supreme Court Justices so our country can be set back on a proper Constitutional course. Rant ended!

I feel that is the path that Trump has forged

Fieldmouse 02-10-2020 07:18 AM


Originally Posted by Champlain Islander (Post 4370421)
I see Trump taking the line of power far beyond what has ever been reached by any President. After all this I doubt anyone from either party will dare to go up against him.
I feel that is the path that Trump has forged

what power has he yielded that other Presidents haven't? I'm curious. He has been reserved in using the military unlike Obama who bombed more countries than any other President since WW2. He hasn't used the CIA to spy on Congress like Obama did. He hasn't spied on reporters, their parents and news outfits like Obama did. He hasn't used the IRS to go after your political rivals. So seriously, what power has Trump used that others haven't?

Fieldmouse 02-10-2020 07:19 AM


Originally Posted by sconnyhunter (Post 4370412)
How many times have you acted in Opposition to your boss and been able to keep your job.
As I recall, VINDMAN was the only call witness, who testified. The remaining 17 "witnesses" were all OPINION witnesses. Who had not actual facts to add. They were and ARE a bunch of butthurt children (read: democrats) who were mad that their advice wasn't sought or listened to.
If you're convinced that Trump is such a bad actor, don't vote for him in Nov.
Myself? I'm voting for him. He's been a positive for this nation.
He has placed OUR needs ahead of the rest of the worlds.

Vindman wasn't the only one. His direct boss did testify and stated he didn't hear anything wrong with the call.


Fieldmouse 02-10-2020 07:23 AM


Originally Posted by Mickey Finn (Post 4370410)
I think that's your interpretation of his testimony. But either way, there were two paths President Trump could have taken post Acquittal. The path he took with retaliation against people who believed they were doing their duty is not surprising. By that I mean, it was in keeping with his personality type.

No, it's not my interpretation of his testimony. It was his actual testimony where he stated he was advising Ukraine. I will also go further and state his issue with the call wasn't that it was illegal, he stated it went against what he felt our foreign policy should be. Let me repeat since you have had issues with our Constitution. The President sets foreign policy not anyone else. Vindman because he didn't like it, went outside of his chain of command which has been stated and he most likely was the source for the fake whistleblower complaint. This means he should have also been investigated for leaking call info to someone who wasn't in line to receive that info.

Fieldmouse 02-10-2020 06:00 PM

Being vindictive is Obama administration going after Flynn because he dared to disagree with Obama's funding of Iran's terrorist network and green lighting their nuke program

CalHunter 02-10-2020 07:27 PM


Originally Posted by Fieldmouse (Post 4370426)
No, it's not my interpretation of his testimony. It was his actual testimony where he stated he was advising Ukraine. I will also go further and state his issue with the call wasn't that it was illegal, he stated it went against what he felt our foreign policy should be. Let me repeat since you have had issues with our Constitution. The President sets foreign policy not anyone else. Vindman because he didn't like it, went outside of his chain of command which has been stated and he most likely was the source for the fake whistleblower complaint. This means he should have also been investigated for leaking call info to someone who wasn't in line to receive that info.

It's especially concerning that Vindman thought Trump's conversation went against what the US's foreign policy should be and apparently leaked part of the contents of the call to somebody not authorized to receive it. As you correctly point out, the President sets foreign policy, not any or even all of his advisors. They are not elected and also work for the President. If Vindman thought something Trump said was wrong, the proper way for him to address it was to report it through his chain of command. Vindman is in the army and does not have some legal authority to simply flout the chain of command. And Vindman sharing what was a classified phone call with the whistleblower likely violates laws and policies, not to mention trying to thwart a sitting President's agenda.


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