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NRA splits with Open Carry Texas on demonstrations.

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NRA splits with Open Carry Texas on demonstrations.

Old 06-06-2014, 05:49 AM
  #61  
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For the most part, I do agree with you Sachiko, but we all must take into consideration that Texas does not allow open carry for pistols as was mentioned. Their only method for demonstrating open carry is to use the only firearms legally allowed. It does appear unconventional, but it is what they have, and is what they are trying to change, I agree completely in this regard.

My issue with the demonstration has been the carrying of the rifle in the front, low and ready position by some of these individuals, with hands resting on the stocks. Across the back I see no issue, slung over your shoulder I see no issue. Part of the training I received while in the military was body language, and part of what I am learning in Interpersonal-by-god-Communication is body language. Both areas have hit on identical concepts, They both agree crossing arms can demonstrate defensiveness, if anything escalates could result badly, but likewise can be said about carrying in the front. It speaks to be a more aggressive stance. While myself as a gun owner knowing the context can continue that thought into the individuals being comfortable with the firearm, they must at the end of the day understand, they are trying to change the perceptions of those who are not comfortable. To do so must take this into consideration when demonstrating, and do the best they can to put these other folks at ease.
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:09 AM
  #62  
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There is absolutely no reason to carry openly. Why do it?
For the very same reason you carry concealed: self-defense. Open carry is just another option. Open carry also has the benefit of educating the public - when done properly.

Okay, so now that I am carrying, what would I do? I would do exactly the same thing. I do not ever intend to place myself in a position where I might have to use my gun, if I can avoid it.
Very prudent. As an Arizona CCW holder I was also taught that awareness and avoidance were some of my best defenses.

Yup, thanks guys. Thanks for protecting my right to carry. You don't secure a right to carry by poking people in the eye with it.
I agree you do not win people over by "poking people in the eye." However you don't keep a right by letting one side (the left) control the conversation. If the only thing the undecided hear is: "guns are bad," "only the police and military should have guns," etc., etc., well you won't have that carry right for much longer.

Olsaltydog said very well what a few of us have said:

...they must at the end of the day understand, they are trying to change the perceptions of those who are not comfortable. To do so must take this into consideration when demonstrating, and do the best they can to put these other folks at ease.
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:24 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by sachiko View Post
I've read every post on this thread, but nothing posted here has changed my opinion that the demonstration discussed was completely wrong.

I am sorry you feel that way, don't think I have said it was completely right the way they have done it. Nor have I said the NRA was completely wrong but they could have been a little more discrete.

I am not afraid of guns. I am a pretty good shot and I have a permit to carry a concealed pistol. But I am certain that no one outside of my immediate family knows that I carry.

Many People fear guns, because of so much misinformation out there. Laws made years ago in the so called interest of our safety. Those people to scared to attempt to defend themselves, and just as today believed if they could just limit who had guns or carry guns they would be safer. To many it is weird to open carry because it was allowed to become that way.

I don't carry to make a statement about my second amendment rights. I carry for self-defense. And I think that is particularly sensible since I'm so small.

I don't carry to make a statement about my second amendment right either, I carry in case I have to defend myself. The Second Amendment affirms that right.


I am not afraid of guns and I am not afraid of "assault rifles." I am fully aware that an "assault rifle" is no more effective as a rifle than a gun with an attractive wooden stock. If someone were to propose a ban on "assault rifles" based on their ugliness, I would probably support it. (j/k)

The AR in AR 15 stands for Armalite Rifle, the first manufacture. "Not" Assault Rifle. Any rifle can used to assault. And ugly is in the eye of the beholder. You would support the banning of a rifle because you don't like the way it looks? I remind you a pretty rifle/gun is just as deadly in the wrong hands.

Open carry is legal here, handguns and long guns. I approve of that. I just don't think you should carry that way. It makes some people a little, or maybe a lot, nervous. And I'm one of those people who gets a little nervous. I'm not afraid of the gun. Guns aren't dangerous. If someone is injured by a car because the driver was careless, drunk, or deliberately trying to injure someone, you don't blame the car.

Not being a smart a** here, but glad to see you kind of approve of and support the 2nd Amendment. Sorry to hear the sight of a law bidding citizen exercising a Constitutional right.

I am concerned about the mental state of someone who feels they have to walk around displaying a gun. "Look at me, I'm carrying a gun." Michigan is "shall issue." Anyone without a criminal record can get a permit to carry a concealed pistol. That's "concealed pistol," not concealed weapon. You can't carry a machete under your coat.

We feel protected see Police who open carry, to see a Police Officer without a gun would seem weird to many, and would cause many to wonder about his/her mental status for not doing so. We trust them to be responsible in doing so. It is a matter of perception, we have been programed over time by in large prior pressure, fear, a list of things that a person open carrying other than a Police officer, is some how a mad man.

There is absolutely no reason to carry openly. Why do it? To exercise your second amendment rights? Do you go to church just to exercise your first amendment rights? Do you criticize the government just to exercise your first amendment fights? Of course not. You have a reason to criticize the government or attend church. The second amendment gives you the right to carry, but what is your reason for carrying openly?

I may not want to open carry, but I do not like worrying if someone might see I am carrying, an be so fearful at the sight of a gun loose their mind in fear. The mere sight of a gun by a law bidding citizen should not cause fear. No more the seeing a Police Officer with a gun on His/Her hip, or in their hands.

Back when I only had Miriam, I had bought groceries at Kroger. I always park at the edge of the parking lot no matter where I go because I like the exercise of walking to the store. When I came out with my groceries, I observed a full size van parked between my car and the store and a man sitting in the van. You couldn't see my car. I went back into the store and asked if some one could walk me to my car. The manager came, brought another guy, and the two of them walked out to my car with me, helped me load my groceries, waited until I had Miriam in her car seat and was safely locked in. I had apologized to the manager for being such a fraidy-cat, but he told me that I did exactly the right thing.

I applaud you, you are aware of your surroundings, and even armed you do not put your self in situations where you would be forced to use your gun. Like you I carry for just a little more personnel safety, not so I can put myself in situations I would not otherwise because I am armed. I will say if the person in the van had intentions of doing harm to you, do you think he would have had second thoughts if you had walked out carrying a gun? Or the manager had a gun in plain view. I bet he would look for a different parking lot, maybe one where guns are prohibited?

Okay, so now that I am carrying, what would I do? I would do exactly the same thing. I do not ever intend to place myself in a position where I might have to use my gun, if I can avoid it.

I applaud you, you are aware of your surroundings, and even armed you do not put your self in situations where you would be forced to use your gun. Like you I carry for just a little more personnel safety, not so I can put myself in situations I would not otherwise because I am armed. I will say if the person in the van had intentions of doing harm to you, do you think he would have had second thoughts if you had walked out carrying a gun? Or the manager had a gun in plain view. I bet he would look for a different parking lot, maybe one where guns are prohibited?

As I've said, open carry is legal in Michigan, but in that picture, the guy on the right would certainly get busted for brandishing if he were observed by a police officer. I'm not sure about the other guy. But a handgun in a holster is okay. A long gun in a sling over your shoulder is okay. But bring the gun into a ready to use position and you're "brandishing."

Brandishing can be a matter of opinion. it is very obvious those two at least the one on the right was posing for the picture, just looking at him, his body posture is non-threatening, if you saw a guy standing like that without a gun you would not have a second thought, but add a gun, which is what you are actually looking at strikes fear. So in a way you do fear guns and the sight of them. We have been programed to see any one holding a gun as a threat. I have looked at the big hole in the end of a barrel on several occasions, some you can see the the fear in their eyes as they are pointing it at you, while others have a different look. The body posture tells a lot, and when you see it you know it, then you know what a threat is. Those who believe they are protecting them selves are just as dangerous as those who intent to do harm. But there is a look and feel, that neither of those two in the picture display.

One caution here. As most everyone knows, my husband is a lawyer. He would warn you against reading statutes and concluding that you know the law. The law is what the courts say it is, not necessarily how you might read a statute. It seems they warn you in law school to not ever read a statute and conclude that you know the law. You have to always research what the courts have said about it.
The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the land, the Second Amendment has not been amended. The Courts are to adhere to the Supreme Law of the land. Over the years laws have been made in the so-called interest of our safety, they have been allowed to stand and given and set precedence, but when held up to the Supreme Law of the Land have been struck down. And the Supreme Law of the Land does not say how I can carry any gun, or what gun I can carry, or I can not carry a certain gun because in someones opinion I don't need to or don't need it, or they don't like the way it looks, It just says I can.


The Constitution is the supreme law of the land that the courts must adhere to.

Last edited by ckell; 06-06-2014 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:57 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by ckell View Post
The Constitution is the supreme law of the land that the cours must adhere to.

The Constitution means what the Supreme Court says it means. Please see my comments above about reading statutes.

Show me where the Constitution conveys a right to an abortion. The Constitution conveys a right to an abortion because the Supreme Court SAYS it does.
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:16 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by sachiko View Post
There is absolutely no reason to carry openly. Why do it?

The second amendment gives you the right to carry, but what is your reason for carrying openly?
One reason to open carry is you have easier access to your gun if you need it....

Here in Virginia we have the right to open carry and there are times depending on what shirt I wear in the summer I open carry because if I pull the shirt over my gun it's very oblivious I'm carrying....
Mose people don't even notice when I open carry and some just look at the gun look at me and go about their business as if I didn't even have a gun on....no big deal.....

Last edited by brewman555; 06-06-2014 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:25 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by RobertSubnet View Post
For the very same reason you carry concealed: self-defense. Open carry is just another option. Open carry also has the benefit of educating the public - when done properly.

Carrying concealed is for self-defense.

Open carry is for self-defense and to make a statement. What kind of statement does that make? Police officers wear a uniform and carry a gun, openly. Why? Why don't they just wear a casual shirt and carry a gun in the back pocket? Because, being intimidating helps you do your job if you're a cop. If you're not a cop, you don't need to intimidate people.

Is that the reason why one would open carry? To be intimidating? Well I would be intimidated and so would a lot of other people.



Very prudent. As an Arizona CCW holder I was also taught that awareness and avoidance were some of my best defenses.

Absolutely! Sometimes a police officer has to go looking for trouble. For the rest of us, it's best to avoid it.


I agree you do not win people over by "poking people in the eye." However you don't keep a right by letting one side (the left) control the conversation. If the only thing the undecided hear is: "guns are bad," "only the police and military should have guns," etc., etc., well you won't have that carry right for much longer.

I think people who are afraid of guns have rights too. As long as we have the right to carry concealed for self-defense, why do we have to "poke them in the eye" with our guns. And as I've commented before, I'm not in the least afraid of guns. I'm concerned about the mental state of "look at me, I'm carrying a gun" people.

Olsaltydog said very well what a few of us have said:
Note to ckell here. I know what AR stands for. I put "assault rifle" in quotes so every one would know what I meant. I'm fully aware that they are just a rifle, period. I do think they are ugly though.

The first time my husband and I ever went anywhere together was to the range. He said he was going out to practice and I invited myself along. So he proceeded to show me how to use a gun and I loved it.
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:10 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by sachiko View Post
Note to ckell here. I know what AR stands for. I put "assault rifle" in quotes so every one would know what I meant. I'm fully aware that they are just a rifle, period. I do think they are ugly though.

The first time my husband and I ever went anywhere together was to the range. He said he was going out to practice and I invited myself along. So he proceeded to show me how to use a gun and I loved it.
Did not say you didn't, sorry if you felt I was, it is not my intent to be confrontational with you or any one else. but many do believe AR does stand for Assault Rifle. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And certainly not a reason to ban anything. Ugly don't make them more dangerous.

I was editing the post as you posted, If I don't post every so often as I reply to a post the site drops me and all is lost, so I post, and edit. I know there are other ways but I do it that way.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:12 AM
  #68  
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...but many do believe AR does stand for Assault Rifle.
Just one of the ways along with "magazine vs. clip," "ammunition vs. shells" that you can determine if someone knows what they are talking about when it comes to firearms.

/sorry for the thread hijack.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:20 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmWtXkp8HIk

Helping the cause

Easy to not associate with the GOP party at election time
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Old 06-06-2014, 12:56 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by NeverWill View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmWtXkp8HIk

Helping the cause

Easy to not associate with the GOP party at election time
What I saw and got out of it and take away from that video, was a group exercising a Constitutional right. I Saw no tension, no real confrontational behavior. The Texas Troopers where fallowing their instructions, they do not have to agree with those instructions, just fallow them. They remained calm, and professional, even jovial. The demonstrators were not threatening, loud and boisterous. Indeed jovial as well. There were people, bystanders in the back ground and walking around, looking on curiously, but not panic stricken, running and hiding in fear. The troopers were not rushing the passers by around, or rushing them to safety. Those who looked a little confused by the sight were calmly motioned by, and walked by looking a little curious more than anything else. Just My observations and opinion. Why should we open carry? Maybe so people will remember we do have that right and not feel threatened by the sight of guns. Just like we are not phased by the sight of a Police Officer with a gun. Think about it, in England to the English the sight of a Bobby (Police) with a gun would be a bit odd, or weird. Odd or weird is what you have been trained to perceive as such.

Last edited by ckell; 06-06-2014 at 01:04 PM.
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