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So, you wonder why health insurance is so expensive

Old 08-05-2011, 10:29 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Venator2 View Post

If you don't fix manufacturing , oh yea 4% nothing will change it will just get worse. They are eating us up.. You will never sell that bill of goods to me.
Just the old political bouncing ball. gulp, someone just caught a mouse.

Manufacturing output HAS increased. Manufacturing JOBS have decreased. Jobs have decreased largely as a result of automation. Robots now do many of the jobs humans used to do, cheaper, faster, more efficiently.

Jeff Jacoby
Made in the USA

US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent

By Jeff Jacoby
Globe Columnist / February 6, 2011

IN ECONOMICS as in apparel, most fashions come and go. But like the navy blazer or the little black dress, bewailing the decline of American manufacturing never seems to go out of style.

They’re closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks

Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain’t coming back.’’

So sang Bruce Springsteen in “My Hometown,’’ a hit song from his 1984 album, “Born in the U.S.A.’’ More than a quarter-century later, that sentiment (if not the song) is as popular as ever.

“You know, we don’t manufacture anything anymore in this country,’’ says Donald Trump in an interview with CNNMoney. “We do health care; we do lots of different services. But . . . everything is made in China, for the most part.’’

The Donald has his idiosyncrasies, but on this issue he is squarely in the mainstream.

A recent Heartland Monitor survey finds “clear anxiety about the decades-long employment shift away from manufacturing to service jobs,’’ National Journal’s Ron Brownstein reported in December. The “decline of US manufacturing’’ is giving Americans a “sense of economic precariousness’’ — only one in five believe that the United States has the world’s strongest economy, versus nearly half who think China is in the lead. “Near the root of the unease for many of those polled is the worry that the United States no longer makes enough stuff.’’ When asked why US manufacturing jobs have declined, 58 percent cite off-shoring by American companies to take advantage of lower labor costs.

There’s just one problem with all the gloom and doom about American manufacturing. It’s wrong.

Americans make more “stuff’’ than any other nation on earth, and by a wide margin. According to the United Nations’ comprehensive database of international economic data, America’s manufacturing output in 2009 (expressed in constant 2005 dollars) was $2.15 trillion. That surpassed China’s output of $1.48 trillion by nearly 46 percent. China’s industries may be booming, but the United States still accounted for 20 percent of the world’s manufacturing output in 2009 — only a hair below its 1990 share of 21 percent.

“The decline, demise, and death of America’s manufacturing sector has been greatly exaggerated,’’ says economist Mark Perry, a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington. “America still makes a ton of stuff, and we make more of it now than ever before in history.’’ In fact, Americans manufactured more goods in 2009 than the Japanese, Germans, British, and Italians — combined.

American manufacturing output hits a new high almost every year. US industries are powerhouses of production: Measured in constant dollars, America’s manufacturing output today is more than double what it was in the early 1970s.

So why do so many Americans fear that the Chinese are eating our lunch?

Part of the reason is that fewer Americans work in factories. Millions of industrial jobs have vanished in recent decades, and there is no denying the hardship and stress that has meant for many families. But factory employment has declined because factory productivity has so dramatically skyrocketed: Revolutions in technology enable an American worker today to produce far more than his counterpart did a generation ago. Consequently, even as America’s manufacturing sector out-produces every other country on earth, millions of young Americans can aspire to become not factory hands or assembly workers, but doctors and lawyers, architects and engineers.

Perceptions also feed the gloom and doom. In its story on Americans’ economic anxiety, National Journal quotes a Florida teacher who says, “It seems like everything I pick up says ‘Made in China’ on it.’’ To someone shopping for toys, shoes, or sporting equipment, it often can seem that way. But that’s because Chinese factories tend to specialize in low-tech, labor-intensive goods — items that typically don’t require the more advanced and sophisticated manufacturing capabilities of modern American plants.

A vast amount of “stuff’’ is still made in the USA, albeit not the inexpensive consumer goods that fill the shelves in Target or Walgreens. American factories make fighter jets and air conditioners, automobiles and pharmaceuticals, industrial lathes and semiconductors. Not the sort of things on your weekly shopping list? Maybe not. But that doesn’t change economic reality. They may have “clos[ed] down the textile mill across the railroad tracks.’’ But America’s manufacturing glory is far from a thing of the past.

Last edited by ipscshooter; 08-05-2011 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:50 AM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/20/bu.../20charts.html


http://www.tradingeconomics.com/unit...tes/gdp-growth

Go back a few years

Last edited by Venator2; 08-05-2011 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:07 PM
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Your New York Times link discusses exports, and the other link discusses GDP. Neither relates to the statement that manufacturing has been growing at an average of 4% per year, for decades. What point are you trying to make?

Last edited by ipscshooter; 08-05-2011 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:33 PM
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I dare not suggest hidden outsourcing in stats.

noooo
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:52 PM
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Ventator, why don't you put up your so called stats? Here is the article which made me dig even deeper to find out the truth behind the report. On top of that, I have ready several books regarding trade, economies and deficits. I'll be happy to share their titles with you.

I will say this, trade deficits don't matter. The money has to return back to the USA in order for it to have value. A country's worth isn't how much gold it has socked away. A country's worth is how large its GDP is. Jobs and economies have changed for thousands of years. These aren't new uncharted teritories we face. Last, the minions will always create and uproar in order to get a payoff.

NOTE TO WALTER WILLIAMS EDITORS: THE FOLLOWING COLUMN CONTAINS LANGUAGE IN THE 2ND PARAGRAPH THAT SOME READERS MAY FIND OFFENSIVE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION. -- CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.
A MINORITY VIEW
BY WALTER E. WILLIAMS
RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 26, 2008, AND THEREAFTER

Trade versus Protectionism

There's a growing anti-trade sentiment in our country. Much of the dialogue is grossly misinformed. Let's try to untangle it a bit with a few questions and observations. First, does the U.S. trade with Japan and England? Put another way, is it members of the U.S. Congress trading with their counterparts in the Japanese Diet or the English Parliament? An affirmative answer is pure nonsense. When I purchased my Lexus, I had nothing to do with either the Japanese Diet or the U.S. Congress. Through an intermediary, a Lexus dealer, I dealt with Toyota Motor Corporation.
While it might be convenient to speak of one country trading with another, such aggregation can conceal a lot of evil, particularly when people call for trade barriers. For example, what would be a moral case for third-party interference, by either the Japanese Diet or the U.S. Congress, with an exchange between me and Toyota Motor Corporation? Some might reason that since Japan places restrictions on U.S. products entering their country, an appropriate retaliatory measure is not to allow Japanese products to freely enter the U.S. By the way, Japanese protectionist restrictions on rice imports force Japanese consumers to pay three or four times the world price for rice. How much sense does it make for Congress to retaliate against Japan by imposing restrictions on their products thereby forcing American consumers, say Lexus buyers, to pay higher prices? Should our rule be: If one country screws its citizens we should retaliate by screwing our citizens?
Since there is no moral argument for preventing one person from trading with another, anti-traders shift their argument to a patriotic appeal such as suggesting that we're losing our manufacturing sector. That doesn't square with the facts. According to a report given by Dr. William Strauss, senior economist for the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, titled "Is U.S. Losing Its Manufacturing Base?" (http://www.edcchicago.org/ecom/2008/edc062508.htm) the answer is no. In each of the past 60 years, U.S. manufacturing output growth has averaged 4 percent and productivity growth has averaged 3 percent. Manufacturing is going through the same process as agriculture. In 1900, 41 percent of American workers were employed in agriculture; today, only 2 percent are and agricultural output is greater. In 1940, 35 percent of workers were employed in manufacturing jobs; today, it's about 10 percent. Again, because of huge productivity gains, manufacturing output is greater.
The decline in manufacturing employment is not limited to the U.S. Since 2000, China has lost over 4.5 million manufacturing jobs. In fact, nine of the top 10 manufacturing countries, which produce 75 percent of the world's manufacturing output (the U.S., Japan, Germany, China, Britain, France, Italy, Korea, Canada, and Mexico), have lost manufacturing jobs but their manufacturing output has risen.
Despite the pretense of being a free trade nation, the U.S. has significant barriers to trade that come in the form of tariffs, quotas and steep regulatory barriers. Our restrictions are just not as onerous as many other countries but there's a push to make them so. It's simple politics. The people who face foreign competition, say management and workers in the auto industry, are well organized, have narrowly shared interests and the resources to have considerable clout in Washington to get Congress to enact trade barriers. Restricting foreign competition means higher prices for their products, and hence higher profits and fuller employment in their industry. The people who are benefited by foreign competition, say auto consumers, have widely dispersed interests; they are not organized at all and have little clout in Washington. You never see consumers descending on Washington complaining about cheap prices for foreign products; it's always domestic producers who do the complaining.
The relationship between prosperity and economic freedom, including free trade, is a no-brainer. But if you need hard evidence, check out the Heritage Foundation's "Index of Economic Freedom" (http://www.heritage.org/Index). You'll find that nations having the greatest measure of economic freedom are the most prosperous and peaceful.
Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University. To find out more about Walter E. Williams and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.
COPYRIGHT 2008 CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.


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Best matches for manufacturing</DIV>In each of the past 60 years, U.S. manufacturing output growth has... Jump to text »
Manufacturing is going through the same process as agriculture. Jump to text »

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Old 08-05-2011, 02:13 PM
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Interesting article FM.
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Fieldmouse View Post
Ventator, why don't you put up your so called stats? Here is the article which made me dig even deeper to find out the truth behind the report. On top of that, I have ready several books regarding trade, economies and deficits. I'll be happy to share their titles with you.

I will say this, trade deficits don't matter. The money has to return back to the USA in order for it to have value. A country's worth isn't how much gold it has socked away. A country's worth is how large its GDP is. Jobs and economies have changed for thousands of years. These aren't new uncharted teritories we face. Last, the minions will always create and uproar in order to get a payoff.
I think you are jumping around a bit.

back to the 4% manufacturing thing. I don't know where it comes from it certainly is not consumer. :

Not electronics
appliances
cars

hell, go into any store.

What ever you see anywhere. We probably didn't make it.
In my particular little niche. I doubt that we could even produce to the level we used to. I know what is left and although there are some very small higher up the scale technical parts left we don't even have the expertize to produce what we used to as routine.

What the hell do we consume or sell to someone that we don't even buy that constitutes 4 % growth.

As far as stats there is a lot o disagreement on the measurements..what else is new....and I am havingt a hard time finding something that would be acceptable for you.....indisputable...LOL

Although I know you have no problem with that argument.

Oh and I have no gold..commodity
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:39 PM
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http://blogs.forbes.com/beltway/2011...uring-decline/


Over the last ten years, China has mounted the biggest challenge to the U.S. manufacturing sector ever seen, threatening producers of steel, chemicals, glass, paper, drugs and any number of other items with prices they cannot match. Not coincidentally, the United States has lost an average of 50,000 manufacturing jobs every month during the same period.

Examples

Take the case of steel. The year before China joined the WTO, the United States and China each produced about 100 million tons of crude steel. But once China was in the WTO, its steel output rose rapidly while U.S. production drifted downward. Last year, China produced eleven times as much steel as America (880 million tons versus 81 million). The huge size of the Chinese industry now makes it a dominant force in both the global steel market and the market for production inputs such as iron ore and metallurgical coal. Few U.S. producers can compete with China’s state-supported producers, and as a result some key products like the “rebar” used to reinforce concrete are no longer produced at all in America.

For example, when Defense Secretary Robert Gates decided to surge production of armored trucks for the Iraq counter-insurgency campaign in 2007, it was discovered there was only one steel plant in the nation producing steel of sufficient strength to meet military needs. That plant — the old Lukens Steel Company facility in Coatesville, Pennsylvania — had been bought by European steel giant Arcelor Mittal, and already had weapons makers waiting in line for the output its limited capacity could support. Other items needed for the Iraq-bound trucks also were in short supply, such as oversized tires. The Pentagon had to cobble together an ad hoc network of domestic and foreign suppliers in order to ramp up production of the needed trucks, suggesting that the industrial complex FDR once called “the arsenal of democracy” had become a rather fragile affair.

I think your good doctor went to school with oslama
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:42 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Venator2 View Post
I think you are jumping around a bit.

back to the 4% manufacturing thing. I don't know where it comes from it certainly is not consumer. :

Not electronics
appliances
cars

hell, go into any store.

What ever you see anywhere. We probably didn't make it.
In my particular little niche. I doubt that we could even produce to the level we used to. I know what is left and although there are some very small higher up the scale technical parts left we don't even have the expertize to produce what we used to as routine.

What the hell do we consume or sell to someone that we don't even buy that constitutes 4 % growth.

As far as stats there is a lot o disagreement on the measurements..what else is new....and I am havingt a hard time finding something that would be acceptable for you.....indisputable...LOL

Although I know you have no problem with that argument.

Oh and I have no gold..commodity
OMG, lets see, where are BMW's made? Toyotas, Hyundias, Volkswagon, Hondas, Washing machines, Lawn mowers, mufflers, Jets, planes, Red Box dispensers, Tanks, Bows, Surf boards, snow boards, guitars,......We still make things here in America. There is just so much out there but if you sit around and just listen to the Dems and the main stream media, nope, we are all unemployeed buying things from china.
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:51 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Venator2 View Post
http://blogs.forbes.com/beltway/2011...uring-decline/


Over the last ten years, China has mounted the biggest challenge to the U.S. manufacturing sector ever seen, threatening producers of steel, chemicals, glass, paper, drugs and any number of other items with prices they cannot match. Not coincidentally, the United States has lost an average of 50,000 manufacturing jobs every month during the same period.

Examples

Take the case of steel. The year before China joined the WTO, the United States and China each produced about 100 million tons of crude steel. But once China was in the WTO, its steel output rose rapidly while U.S. production drifted downward. Last year, China produced eleven times as much steel as America (880 million tons versus 81 million). The huge size of the Chinese industry now makes it a dominant force in both the global steel market and the market for production inputs such as iron ore and metallurgical coal. Few U.S. producers can compete with China’s state-supported producers, and as a result some key products like the “rebar” used to reinforce concrete are no longer produced at all in America.

For example, when Defense Secretary Robert Gates decided to surge production of armored trucks for the Iraq counter-insurgency campaign in 2007, it was discovered there was only one steel plant in the nation producing steel of sufficient strength to meet military needs. That plant — the old Lukens Steel Company facility in Coatesville, Pennsylvania — had been bought by European steel giant Arcelor Mittal, and already had weapons makers waiting in line for the output its limited capacity could support. Other items needed for the Iraq-bound trucks also were in short supply, such as oversized tires. The Pentagon had to cobble together an ad hoc network of domestic and foreign suppliers in order to ramp up production of the needed trucks, suggesting that the industrial complex FDR once called “the arsenal of democracy” had become a rather fragile affair.

I think your good doctor went to school with oslama
Too funny, trade drifts around countries all the time. The far east use to be the worlds cotton producers and we use to have our wheat farming power house in new england.

I suggest you put down the tabloids and educate yourself on the global markets. I got news for you, China and India have over a billion people with nothing all wanting something. Our best bet to be apart of that is to end capital gains taxes (China's are zero) and end any taxes on corporations who make their profits overseas and repatriats that money here at home (China already does that also). One more thing, China has no medicare or SS. Hmmm, isn't that interesting?
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