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Ron Paul introduces pro gun legislation.

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Ron Paul introduces pro gun legislation.

Old 07-27-2011, 06:47 AM
  #11  
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Rick Perry is pretty liberal on gun laws; he was trying to pass legislation in Texas for college students with a CC permit could carry guns on campus. I would rather see Rick Perry in the Whitehouse than Ron Paul, he scares me, and he reminds me of someone you might see in the Texas Chain Saw Massacre.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:55 AM
  #12  
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I dont know a whole lot about ronpaul- but i think he maybe onto something.


verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license"
I do remember seeing a story on just this recently- with the passing of the new law that says- no licence or permit is needed to CC
( why leave a federal law in place that makes ppl here lawbreakers & open to criminal charges( even if they have never used the law in the past to do so)


Wyoming gun owners could violate federal law

Wyoming gun owners could violate federal law

By JOAN BARRON Star-Tribune capital bureautrib.com | Posted: Monday, July 11, 2011 7:00 am |

CHEYENNE —

A traveler driving along Interstate 25 at Cheyenne will come within 1,000 feet of Jessup Elementary School.
If that Wyoming driver is carrying a weapon in the vehicle without a concealed weapon permit, he or she is in violation of a little-known federal law.

The Federal Gun Free School Zone Act of 1995 makes it a crime to possess a functional firearm on public property, such as sidewalks, roads, highways, parks or fairgrounds within 1,000 feet of the property line of any elementary, middle or high school.

The penalty for violations is up to five years in federal prison and the permanent loss of the offender’s right to own a firearm.
The National Coalition for Amending the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act of 1995 is alerting Wyoming residents to the existence of the federal ban, given that the state’s new law allowing residents to carry handguns without permits is in effect.

“Anyone who carries in a populated area without a Wyoming permit is unavoidably committing multiple federal felonies,” said Grant Chapman of Oklahoma.
Chapman is working with the coalition and other gun rights organizations, including the Western Wyoming Riflemen’s Association based in Afton, to get the federal law changed.

An exemption in the law applies to gun permit holders, but only in the states where they obtained the permits.

Although Wyoming concealed-carry permits are recognized in 34 other states, the owners risk federal prosecution of the gun-free school zone law in all of them, Chapman said.

The federal law apparently never has been enforced in Wyoming.
The U.S. attorney’s office has not filed charges under the law for at least 15 years, spokesman John Powell said last week.
Powell said the scenario of the I-25 driver who has a weapon in his vehicle and inadvertently breaks the law boils down to a matter of “common sense.”

“Why would we charge anyone with that?” Powell said.
Cheyenne Police Chief Brian Kozak said the department has never been in a position where it had to enforce the federal law.
Tim Hare of the Western Wyoming Riflemen’s Association said he first learned of the federal law last year from Chapman.

“I started investigating, and sure enough. It doesn’t matter if you have a carry permit in Wyoming” and get stopped in a school zone in another state.
“If you’re from out of state and you’re in a gun-free school zone and are in possession of a weapon, you are guilty of a federal felony,” Hare said.

“They (Congress) wrote it up so the permit does not matter,” he said.
The law is another example of government chipping away at citizens’ constitutional rights, he said.
Hare said his group is only about five years old and is trying to develop a firing range in the Star Valley area.
Mark Spungin of Guernsey, president of the Wyoming State Shooting Association, said the federal law is unconstitutional and should be repealed.

The U.S. Supreme Court, he noted, ruled the law unconstitutional but Congress passed it again.
“It’s been ignored ever since it passed,” Spungin said. “I don’t see it being an issue here.”
The operative word in concealed carry is “concealed,” he pointed out.
Alan Korwin, an Arizona gun rights activist and author, said the federal law was never intended to be enforced.


“It’s a feel-good, do-nothing law and because of that it should be rescinded,” Korwin said.
The law, he added, has been used in other states as an add-on to drug charges, for example.
Korwin commended Wyoming for passing a “constitutional carry law,” but because of it questions could be raised about restrictions in the federal law, he said.
“If Wyoming was going to do it right, they would stand on states’ rights and say we reject this law because it makes no sense. That would get the attention of the federal government,”Korwin said.
Chapman said that while he agreed the law has historically been a low enforcement priority, it is necessary to change it because permit holders don’t want to violate any law.
Moreover, because of the law’s penalty, people who carry in violation of it are taking a serious legal gamble which they should not be forced to take, Chapman said.
The national coalition is pushing for amendments to exempt any firearm carried in accordance with the laws of the state where the school is located.
Another exemption would be for off-duty law enforcement officers who now also are barred from carrying weapons within 1,000 feet of schools.



Read more: http://trib.com/news/state-and-regio...#ixzz1TJk9Eo1P
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:22 AM
  #13  
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“If Wyoming was going to do it right, they would stand on states’ rights and say we reject this law because it makes no sense. That would get the attention of the federal government,”Korwin said.

Chapman said that while he agreed the law has historically been a low enforcement priority, it is necessary to change it because permit holders don’t want to violate any law.

Moreover, because of the law’s penalty, people who carry in violation of it are taking a serious legal gamble which they should not be forced to take, Chapman said.
Guess we could add it to our growing states list of asinine federal laws
& say we reject this law to.
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:28 AM
  #14  
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I wonder what the Supremes will say about this one. It clearly infringes on a right already recognized by many states, that is the failure to recognize the reciprocity agreements.

We need to make sure that our reps are aware of our hostile view of this law.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:52 AM
  #15  
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While i agree with the last post /above Dlg, this not so much.( we are no longer required by the state to have there permission to CC or to have a licence or permit given by them.

There are a whole lot of other exceptions including someone living in a school zone, or having to pass through a school zone to get to a hunting area, and so on. If you can't find an exception, you just aren't thinking.

Obviously, the purpose of the statute is to permit someone shooting someone on school property, like Columbine, etc., to be charged with a federal crime.

That's okay with me.
I guess just dont go to another state & drive threw a school zone to even with a permit?

Arent crimes like columbine etc covered under existing state laws prohibiting assult, murder etc?( pretty strong punishments are possible( someplaces)( unlike some places like- norway, germany etc etc)

Why the need for a federal law? Why the need for federal hate crime laws when these things & all persons are also covered under those same laws?

In OK lots of school kids park their trucks on school property with guns inside. There's no problem so long as the vehicle is locked and the gun is out of sight.

Bergall, how would that play out in NJ?
Your state & local say its ok? How about the feds?

Just some general info from a like story as the above.

Concealed weapons at a glance

Permit requirements include:

-- The person is a U.S. resident.

-- They are at least 21 years old.

-- They do not suffer from a physical infirmity that inhibits safe handling.

-- They are not ineligible to possess a firearm under federal law.

-- They have not been committed to a detention facility because of a felony or misdemeanor controlled substance violation.

-- They do not chronically or habitually use alcohol to an extent that their normal facilities are impaired.( who gets to say if drinking 2x a week , 8x a mth- 2 drinks isnt habitual & impairing( it will cause impairments from a normal state even if minimal)
( if inforced it id guess could leave a lot of ppl out of & exclude them from getting a CC permit)( even 1 drink every full moon is a habit ;0 )

-- They are not adjudicated to be legally incompetent.

-- They have not been committed to a mental institution.

Places where concealed weapons are prohibited include:

-- Law enforcement agencies

-- Prisons or jails

-- Courtrooms

-- Meetings of government agencies

-- Colleges and universities, including sponsored athletic events

-- Bars

-- Gatherings for the purpose of religious worship
( How come?)
-- Elementary and secondary schools

Last edited by Knightia; 07-27-2011 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:15 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by falcon View Post
In OK lots of school kids park their trucks on school property with guns inside. There's no problem so long as the vehicle is locked and the gun is out of sight.

Bergall, how would that play out in NJ?

NJ state troopers will routinely stop any driver in ORANGE during the months of October November or December, and look for firearms.
Kid comes to school with a winchester in the back window of his pick-up....he's going down to the county lockup for sure. I believe (but an not sure of it) that NJ is one of the states that bucks the FOPA which allows unmolested travel for people carrying firearms as long as the firearms are legal at point of departure and point of destination. I believe they have something akin to a 'transport permit' which you pay for, list make model and serial number of all firearms you will be 'transporting'. If you're stopped, you show this and you're supposed to be ok (Massachussetts has the same garbage, as I believe Delaware and/or Maryland...again, I'm not sure>). Personally, they dont get all that information from me....even when I lived in NYC, I just did not wear my Hunter's Orange gear so there's no 'probable cause'.
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:37 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by sachiko View Post
This demonstrates that nobody can be wrong all the time.

But on a side note. My husband says he'll check and make sure if he can find the time, but he thinks the school zone weapons ban was overturned by the Supremes. The Congress used the Commerce Clause and the Supremes said it didn't apply. Congress threatened to pass another one using a different justification, but he doesn't think they ever got around to it.

I do know, having taken the course that Michigan's concealed carry law permits you to take a gun on to school property as long as you leave it in your car. You can't legally take it into the school on your person. They didn't mention anything about a federal law. I have seen signs around some schools that it is a weapon and drug free zone. Yeah, sure. That really affected all the dopers smoking joints behind my high school between classes. Really scared them.

So Ron Paul may be off base here.
Ya'll are probably thinking about the United States v. Lopez decision handed down by the Supreme Court in 1995. Congressional regulation of firearms was sought to be tied to the commerce clause. By a slim 5-4 margin, that was shot down.
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:03 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by sachiko View Post
This demonstrates that nobody can be wrong all the time.

...

So Ron Paul may be off base here.

I think you may have an excessively harsh opinion of Dr. Paul. Even when you say he might not be "wrong all the time" you add that he "may be off base..."

I believe the primary influences on his position on various issues are the Constitution and the 10th Amendment, and his votes on issues seem to pretty clearly delineate an belief that the Federal Government should simply not be involved in all issues all the time. You seem very concerned about his "moral" positions, citing specifically his statements about marriage and your assumption that they mean he supports gay marriage, yet, he has stated that he supports the Defense of Marriage Act, but believes that any further determinations in regard to gay marriage are state issues.

On the other "biggie" moral issue of abortion, as an OB/GYN who delivered over 4,000 babies, Dr. Paul is adamantly anti-abortion.

I disagree with Dr. Paul on a number of issues, but, to suggest that his position on this 2nd Amendment issue is a "demonstration that nobody can be wrong all the time" is a bit silly and beneath your usual level of analysis.
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:51 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by ipscshooter View Post
I think you may have an excessively harsh opinion of Dr. Paul. Even when you say he might not be "wrong all the time" you add that he "may be off base..."

I believe the primary influences on his position on various issues are the Constitution and the 10th Amendment, and his votes on issues seem to pretty clearly delineate an belief that the Federal Government should simply not be involved in all issues all the time. You seem very concerned about his "moral" positions, citing specifically his statements about marriage and your assumption that they mean he supports gay marriage, yet, he has stated that he supports the Defense of Marriage Act, but believes that any further determinations in regard to gay marriage are state issues.

On the other "biggie" moral issue of abortion, as an OB/GYN who delivered over 4,000 babies, Dr. Paul is adamantly anti-abortion.

I disagree with Dr. Paul on a number of issues, but, to suggest that his position on this 2nd Amendment issue is a "demonstration that nobody can be wrong all the time" is a bit silly and beneath your usual level of analysis.
agreed, sachiko obviously has a deep rooted bias against Paul, possibly as deeply rooted as mine...just the opposite end. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, you just have to keep Sachiko's in mind when reading her posts. Same could probably be said of me too lol
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:56 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by ipscshooter View Post
On the other "biggie" moral issue of abortion, as an OB/GYN who delivered over 4,000 babies, Dr. Paul is adamantly anti-abortion.

I disagree with Dr. Paul on a number of issues, but, to suggest that his position on this 2nd Amendment issue is a "demonstration that nobody can be wrong all the time" is a bit silly and beneath your usual level of analysis.
Hey I should be allowed to have a little fun now and then.
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