What does Article II of the Bill of Rights mean to you ?
10-11-2006, 02:13 PM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: a van down by the river
Posts: 8,938
RE: What does Article II of the Bill of Rights mean to you ?
I see no line present in the amendment. We have a right to keep and bear arms, and the amendment does not authorize limits in any form or fashion.
10-11-2006, 02:15 PM
#12
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: a van down by the river
Posts: 8,938
RE: What does Article II of the Bill of Rights mean to you ?
ORIGINAL: Charlie P
Sort like some other amendments being stomped on now too eh?
Our forebears dealt with weapons that to them were the state of the art and dreamed of better ones . Leonardo DaVinci envisioned the machinegun over 500 years ago , only the state of technology prevented it from being a reality . They knew that more powerful weapons would one day come along , and they wrote this article that way knowing it .
10-11-2006, 02:25 PM
#13
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 903
RE: What does Article II of the Bill of Rights mean to you ?
ORIGINAL: petasux
Well regulated militia-leaves the power to defend against invaders, both foriegn and domestic, including our own government if they try to go against what our country stands for, to the people if neccassary and not just the military.
Right of the people to keep and bear arms-This gets somewhat more tricky.When the bill of rights was written they had no concept of the weapons we would have today.I think the definition of arms is unclear, does it just mean guns or should we all have the right to put missile silos in our back yards?If you have a refrigerator full of anthrax spores is it a chemical weapon or just excersising your right to bear arms?Should I be able to refine uranium in my basement?Going by the loosest definition of the terms these things would all be legal weapons.
The only problem with the opposing side of that argument is when the bill of rights was written the standard firearms were what are considered today as antiques, even the advanced versions like the inline muzzleloader are available for sale without any paperwork.We would be a well regulated militia with access only to flintlock or matchlock firearms.Theres a lot of middleground there between the firearms of then and today.This is just if you take the definition and timeline of this quite literaly which most people do not.
All that aside a guns no more dagerous then its owner, I dont care if every household in America has fully automatic rifles with 100 round clips and everyone in Walmarts carrying a handgun.To my thinking these things are all well within the bill of rights as long as your still eligible to own and carry weapons{legaly a citizen, not a felon etc....}.Look at the big issue made out of .50 cal rifles a year or two ago.They wanted them outlawed yet theyve only been used in a handfull of crimes in this countries history.More crimes have been committed with pellet guns then with these yet the politicians and media played them up to be the biggest evil this side of a nuclear warhead.There is a line as to what should be legal to own, but most firearms dont cross it.
Well regulated militia-leaves the power to defend against invaders, both foriegn and domestic, including our own government if they try to go against what our country stands for, to the people if neccassary and not just the military.
Right of the people to keep and bear arms-This gets somewhat more tricky.When the bill of rights was written they had no concept of the weapons we would have today.I think the definition of arms is unclear, does it just mean guns or should we all have the right to put missile silos in our back yards?If you have a refrigerator full of anthrax spores is it a chemical weapon or just excersising your right to bear arms?Should I be able to refine uranium in my basement?Going by the loosest definition of the terms these things would all be legal weapons.
The only problem with the opposing side of that argument is when the bill of rights was written the standard firearms were what are considered today as antiques, even the advanced versions like the inline muzzleloader are available for sale without any paperwork.We would be a well regulated militia with access only to flintlock or matchlock firearms.Theres a lot of middleground there between the firearms of then and today.This is just if you take the definition and timeline of this quite literaly which most people do not.
All that aside a guns no more dagerous then its owner, I dont care if every household in America has fully automatic rifles with 100 round clips and everyone in Walmarts carrying a handgun.To my thinking these things are all well within the bill of rights as long as your still eligible to own and carry weapons{legaly a citizen, not a felon etc....}.Look at the big issue made out of .50 cal rifles a year or two ago.They wanted them outlawed yet theyve only been used in a handfull of crimes in this countries history.More crimes have been committed with pellet guns then with these yet the politicians and media played them up to be the biggest evil this side of a nuclear warhead.There is a line as to what should be legal to own, but most firearms dont cross it.
great post peta!!! only I think that there should be no limit on firearms, the number, or the operation, as long as you have the paperwork and the record to purchase one. To me, the second ammendment is much more than going to my farm and plinking off some cans with my .22. Its a family tradition, a heritage, a pride, something I would die for, something I want to past down to my son, and he to his son, its something that can bring people closer together, to spend quality time with one another. It also means that I have the right to defend myself, my family, my friends, my neighboors, and my country. It means I have the right to ban together with abunch of guys and fight against an invader of this country, and it gives me the right to protect my family, and to kill any intruders in my house. It also says to me that I have the right to form a militia and fight against the government if they get to controlling, and that, right there, is a huge part, that the power truely lies with the people, just like they made it to be. It is withouta doubt the most important right we as Americans have. thats what it means to me
-Travis-
10-11-2006, 04:18 PM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Waipahu HI USA
Posts: 2,912
RE: What does Article II of the Bill of Rights mean to you ?
Ouch!
Perhaps the reference was subtle. The point I was making, was that the MilitiaActis complimentary and supportive to the Second Amendment.
The Militia Act of 1792 identifies who the militia is comprised of, and what they're supposed to have. An important piece of equipment identified in the act is a firearm and the powder & shot for it. I believe there is a reference to the caliberby way of the size of the shot (a lead ball 1/18of a pound)
It sounds like you're looking to stir the pot amongst a bunch of people who agree.
Perhaps the reference was subtle. The point I was making, was that the MilitiaActis complimentary and supportive to the Second Amendment.
The Militia Act of 1792 identifies who the militia is comprised of, and what they're supposed to have. An important piece of equipment identified in the act is a firearm and the powder & shot for it. I believe there is a reference to the caliberby way of the size of the shot (a lead ball 1/18of a pound)
It sounds like you're looking to stir the pot amongst a bunch of people who agree.
10-11-2006, 08:20 PM
#17
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Elkin, N.C.
Posts: 811
RE: What does Article II of the Bill of Rights mean to you ?
ORIGINAL: CtHunter8
great post peta!!! only I think that there should be no limit on firearms, the number, or the operation, as long as you have the paperwork and the record to purchase one. To me, the second ammendment is much more than going to my farm and plinking off some cans with my .22. Its a family tradition, a heritage, a pride, something I would die for, something I want to past down to my son, and he to his son, its something that can bring people closer together, to spend quality time with one another. It also means that I have the right to defend myself, my family, my friends, my neighboors, and my country. It means I have the right to ban together with abunch of guys and fight against an invader of this country, and it gives me the right to protect my family, and to kill any intruders in my house. It also says to me that I have the right to form a militia and fight against the government if they get to controlling, and that, right there, is a huge part, that the power truely lies with the people, just like they made it to be.
-Travis-
ORIGINAL: petasux
Well regulated militia-leaves the power to defend against invaders, both foriegn and domestic, including our own government if they try to go against what our country stands for, to the people if neccassary and not just the military.
Right of the people to keep and bear arms-This gets somewhat more tricky.When the bill of rights was written they had no concept of the weapons we would have today.I think the definition of arms is unclear, does it just mean guns or should we all have the right to put missile silos in our back yards?If you have a refrigerator full of anthrax spores is it a chemical weapon or just excersising your right to bear arms?Should I be able to refine uranium in my basement?Going by the loosest definition of the terms these things would all be legal weapons.
The only problem with the opposing side of that argument is when the bill of rights was written the standard firearms were what are considered today as antiques, even the advanced versions like the inline muzzleloader are available for sale without any paperwork.We would be a well regulated militia with access only to flintlock or matchlock firearms.Theres a lot of middleground there between the firearms of then and today.This is just if you take the definition and timeline of this quite literaly which most people do not.
All that aside a guns no more dagerous then its owner, I dont care if every household in America has fully automatic rifles with 100 round clips and everyone in Walmarts carrying a handgun.To my thinking these things are all well within the bill of rights as long as your still eligible to own and carry weapons{legaly a citizen, not a felon etc....}.Look at the big issue made out of .50 cal rifles a year or two ago.They wanted them outlawed yet theyve only been used in a handfull of crimes in this countries history.More crimes have been committed with pellet guns then with these yet the politicians and media played them up to be the biggest evil this side of a nuclear warhead.There is a line as to what should be legal to own, but most firearms dont cross it.
Well regulated militia-leaves the power to defend against invaders, both foriegn and domestic, including our own government if they try to go against what our country stands for, to the people if neccassary and not just the military.
Right of the people to keep and bear arms-This gets somewhat more tricky.When the bill of rights was written they had no concept of the weapons we would have today.I think the definition of arms is unclear, does it just mean guns or should we all have the right to put missile silos in our back yards?If you have a refrigerator full of anthrax spores is it a chemical weapon or just excersising your right to bear arms?Should I be able to refine uranium in my basement?Going by the loosest definition of the terms these things would all be legal weapons.
The only problem with the opposing side of that argument is when the bill of rights was written the standard firearms were what are considered today as antiques, even the advanced versions like the inline muzzleloader are available for sale without any paperwork.We would be a well regulated militia with access only to flintlock or matchlock firearms.Theres a lot of middleground there between the firearms of then and today.This is just if you take the definition and timeline of this quite literaly which most people do not.
All that aside a guns no more dagerous then its owner, I dont care if every household in America has fully automatic rifles with 100 round clips and everyone in Walmarts carrying a handgun.To my thinking these things are all well within the bill of rights as long as your still eligible to own and carry weapons{legaly a citizen, not a felon etc....}.Look at the big issue made out of .50 cal rifles a year or two ago.They wanted them outlawed yet theyve only been used in a handfull of crimes in this countries history.More crimes have been committed with pellet guns then with these yet the politicians and media played them up to be the biggest evil this side of a nuclear warhead.There is a line as to what should be legal to own, but most firearms dont cross it.
great post peta!!! only I think that there should be no limit on firearms, the number, or the operation, as long as you have the paperwork and the record to purchase one. To me, the second ammendment is much more than going to my farm and plinking off some cans with my .22. Its a family tradition, a heritage, a pride, something I would die for, something I want to past down to my son, and he to his son, its something that can bring people closer together, to spend quality time with one another. It also means that I have the right to defend myself, my family, my friends, my neighboors, and my country. It means I have the right to ban together with abunch of guys and fight against an invader of this country, and it gives me the right to protect my family, and to kill any intruders in my house. It also says to me that I have the right to form a militia and fight against the government if they get to controlling, and that, right there, is a huge part, that the power truely lies with the people, just like they made it to be.
-Travis-
Good post.
10-11-2006, 09:11 PM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wy
Posts: 8,874
RE: What does Article II of the Bill of Rights mean to you ?
Just a question, You guys really think you could fight ther goverment with out some type of military coup?
But they didnt fair to well.(including in court afterwards, the surviviours)
Just got sattalite tv- they where showing the waco congressional? hearings on wrong doing etc on that one... lotsa photos etc
10-11-2006, 09:29 PM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wy
Posts: 8,874
RE: What does Article II of the Bill of Rights mean to you ?
Look at the big issue made out of .50 cal rifles a year or two ago.They wanted them outlawed yet theyve only been used in a handfull of crimes in this countries history.More crimes have been committed with pellet guns then with these yet the politicians and media played them up to be the biggest evil this side of a nuclear warhead. There is a line as to what should be legal to own, but most firearms dont cross it.
Just curious what do you think is the line you speak of above?
10-11-2006, 10:19 PM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wy
Posts: 8,874
RE: What does Article II of the Bill of Rights mean to you ?
Greek fire
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[/align]
[/align]Depiction of Greek fire in the Madrid Skylitzes manuscript.
[/align][/align][/align][/align]
Greek fire
Also called:
Byzantine fire
wildfire
liquid fire
Greek:
Υγρό *υρ igró pyr
Greek fire was a burning-liquid weapon used by the Byzantine Empire, typically in naval battles to great effect as it could continue burning even on water. "Byzantine fire" was largely responsible for many Byzantine military victories, and partly the reason for the Eastern Roman Empire surviving as long as it did. The formula was a secret and remains a mystery to this day
In this county fireworks are illegal i believe(not the next one tho) wild land(and forest)fires are pretty commen
I dont think the batf controls flame throwers much tho?
You can have a 50.cal tho here& pretty much whater else you want(within reason of course).
Our capital of Dc &Nyc &few states orother suchlocations where even sharp plastic things are banned from being shipped there[
].along with some knifes, tear gasammo & pellet guns etc?
[/align]
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[/align]
[/align]Depiction of Greek fire in the Madrid Skylitzes manuscript.
[/align][/align][/align][/align]
Greek fire
Also called:
Byzantine fire
wildfire
liquid fire
Greek:
Υγρό *υρ igró pyr
Greek fire was a burning-liquid weapon used by the Byzantine Empire, typically in naval battles to great effect as it could continue burning even on water. "Byzantine fire" was largely responsible for many Byzantine military victories, and partly the reason for the Eastern Roman Empire surviving as long as it did. The formula was a secret and remains a mystery to this day
In this county fireworks are illegal i believe(not the next one tho) wild land(and forest)fires are pretty commen
I dont think the batf controls flame throwers much tho?
You can have a 50.cal tho here& pretty much whater else you want(within reason of course
).Our capital of Dc &Nyc &few states orother suchlocations where even sharp plastic things are banned from being shipped there[
].along with some knifes, tear gasammo & pellet guns etc?[/align]
