Well guys I'm trying to decide on which of these to get...(beating a dead horse it seems)

Nikon Monarch 8x42
Wind River Cascade 8x42
Pentax DCF-HR II 8x42

I can make a run to the local Basspro and check out the Leupold and Nikon but nobody within 100miles of me caries Pentax. So are the Pentax really that much better in this price range to order them online and never held in hand? I've read what reviews I can find on these and they all seem to get about the same amount of praise.

Thanks,
Pinseeker

Been there done that. I was looking at those recently. I ended up with 7x42 Bushnell Discoverers. I am thrilled with them. You can find them on the net for under $300 if you look hard. I was a sure thing for the Nikon Monarch ATB 8x42's until I handled the Discoverers. I almost hate to say Bushnell since they have drug their name through the ultra low end market for a few years now. . .but these are different. For starters they are made in Japan.They are very clear and bright. I can see better than these under all conditions than I can with just my eyes. They really make the deer stand out from their background. I was counting points on a small whitetail buck at 700 yards at around dusk tonight.

They must be good, I could not do that with my Nikon Monarch 10X42's in the middle of the day.

Maybe I just have bad eyes.

After having tried the three bins in question I would suggest either the Monarchs or the Cascades over the Pentax. If you consider the Pentax SP series in the group then I would opt for them over the Monarchs or Cascades but the HR II really did not appeal to me optically or physically.

To further split hairs the Cascades weren't as good as the Monarchs optically until last year when phase coating was added to their design. Now they are in the same optical class in my opinion. However, I could be wrong but I believe the field of view is considerably narrower on the Cascades.

As for the Discoverers, excellent bins. Nks is correct. They are a step above the others here optically. The Discoverers utilize silver coated roof prisms which greatly help enhance both brightness and clarity. They are also of the 7x42 configuration which increases several key optical factors: depth of field, field of view and brightness level in low light conditions.

Their only negatives? They are a bit heavier than the other glasses mentioned here and they are now discontinued from the Bushnell lineup. They are being replaced by the new open bridge Infinitis and possibly the new Elite E2 line.

Nk,

It is nice to see you posting about the discoverers here too.

Frank

I concur with Frank, the Pentax DCF-SP series is absolutely amazing but the rest of the line isn't up to par with some of the other top end binos. I have a pair of Bushnell Legend 12X42's and while they are very nice, I wouldn't recommend them. The lens coatings seem to wear off very easily and the eye cups are just glued on with an inferior glue that will disolve when wet, I took my bino's out in the rain during archery season and found that my eye cups wouldn't twist up because of this.

If you are willing to spend a little extra money, I would look into the Pentax DCF-SP series. I found the Pentax DCF-SP 8X43's on www.hotbuyselectronics.com for $379.98 where as Cabelas wants $549.99 right now, and they are on sale from $599.99 I compared these to Zeiss, Swarovski, and Kahles bino's at Cabelas and in all honesty, I just can't see spending the extra grand for these brands over the Pentax. These are probablly the nicest overall bino's I have ever used if you consider price into the equation.

Thanks for the advice so far. With the new coating on the Cascades would they now surpass the Monarchs? Another option wouldbe to step up to maybe the Olympics??? I'm just trying real hard to keep things in the 300 range since my wife is not paying me much for the honeydo list.

pinseeker,

I do not necessarily think I would say the Cascades would surpass the Monarchs. With optics everything is a series of tradeoffs. At any given price point one binocular might have a wider field of view with a slightly softer overall level of sharpness. Another might have excellent sharpness levels at the center of the field of view but at a cost to the level of distortion at the edges or at a cost to actual width of the field of view itself. From another standpoint a company may choose to utilize certain chemical coatings on the lenses which will enhance certain colors of the light spectrum while inhibiting others. Another company may chose to utilize coatings that result in totally neutral color representation. Which is superior? That is entirely up to the consumer.

As for the Olympics, in my opinion I think the Olympics aren't much above the Monarchs in terms of performance. Had you asked me this a year ago I would have said the Olympics and Monarchs are at about the same performance level...and they still pretty much are. I think the Leupold lineup tends to have some redundancies in it. The Olympics claim to fame over the Cascades was always that they had phase coating on the roof prisms and the Cascades did not. Now that the Cascades do utilize phase coating I don't think the Olympics have any significant advantage other than possibly field of view.

If you are just looking for some suggestions in general, also consider the new Cabelas XT series of roof prism bins. They offer an exceptionally sharp image for the price...they are made in Japan instead of China and they sell for around $250. Great bins when I had a chance to evaluate them on a few occasions.

Second, if you are looking for the best prices, as Jason made mention to above, there are several places that offer superb prices on optics both new and used. You may cringe at the latter but there are a few places where you can buy "demo/refurbished" bins with a full warranty for substantially less than their new price at most retailers. My favorite place to buy from in this regard is www.cameralandny.com . I have nothing but good things to say about their owner "Doug". He is intelligent, articulate and honest with you as a consumer and his prices are the best I have seen anywhere..and I have looked around extensively. Head to his website and check out the prices on regular products as well as the demos. You may be amazed.

..and for what it is worth I have no affiliation with Doug or his business whatsoever other than having purchased several optical devices from him over the last year or two.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the website! he has some good deals on the demos.

Just to throw another wrench into things how are Carson rated to these? I've been reading they have a new High Def coating?? I was looking at the XM series and they seem on ave around 50-100 less than the monarchs or pentax.

For anyone who is tired of my questions I about the same way coming up with them. Thanks for everyones patience!

I just went through this process and I have a couple of thoughts.

After looking at virtually every roof prism bino out there in $300.00 - $500.00 rangeI ended up going with the Pentax DCF-SP 8X43. For my eyes it blew every other model away at this price point. The image is vivid, sharp, and focused nearly all the way to the edge. It has a locking dioptor ring, so once you set the right lens for your eyes is stays there. They are phase coated and fully multi-coated. The SP has special water sheeting, scratch-resistant coatings on all exterior services. It is waterproof and immersable to 1 meter (JIS class 6)The prisms are BAK-4, the gold standard. Earlier SP models had ED glass (extra-low dispersion) which is the sharpest and most optically pure glass available. I can't get confirmation that the current SP models have ED glass, and I doubt that they do because Pentax just introduced a DCF-ED model that has the ED glass.The SPs arerubber armored and just look and feel perfect IMO. They are guarenteed for life.

I also had the Pentax DCF-WP II 8x42 for about a month until I traded up to the SP model. It is a great bino that can be had for about $300.00-$350.00. It is a bit heavier than the SP and the sharpness doesn't extend to the edge like the SPs, but the center of the field of view rivals the SP and other high-end models. It, like most Pentax models, is JIS class 6 waterproof. It is agreat bino for the money and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one in a different magnification.

Both these models (DCF-WP II and SP), are superior to the Nikon Monarchs, which is a very good bino and a good value as well. The Nikons appeared not to be built as rugged (they are made in China), are not as waterproof, and the image appeared "soft" to me. The center was sharp but the image quickly lost focus as you extended away from the middle.


mouthcaller

I know that sounds unbelievable. I think I did have some antler glint since the sun was low in the sky. Also, these are good binos IMHO. They feel like they open my eyes up a bit wider than before.

The Discoverer's can still be found in 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 for around $300 - $400. Good buy in my book. From just the specs, I can't see what seperates them optically from the Elites??