Overall Responce
 

I' ve read and listened to the many thoughts and opinions written and voiced since Saturdays activities. Those opinions have ranged greatly from loud objection to quiet support. Instead of trying to chime in on the various threads being generated, I will offer my own thoughts on the overall responce from our shooters and membership.

First the treatment of the man. Contrary to popular belief at the moment, Ken Watkins does not and can not make these kind of decisions on his own. He reports to the board of directors, and while his voice is heard, it is not the only deciding factor. Ken is the point man when presenting such decisions in public. That does not mean he has a responcibility to act as your personal whipping boy whenever you disagree with those decisions. Accusations that any decisions were made with regard to personal profit are totally off base. The fact that such accusations were made at all does not speak well of the intelligence or understanding of the accusers.

Communication..... before it can be achieved people have to be willing to listen. The attempt was made, the information was presented. Unfortunately, as often happens people have pre-concieved ideas or opinions and refuse to hear the information presented. In the heat of their frustration they often see things which never happen and hear things never said. The lifts were shut down and pools locked. The threat was lifted and mountain top activities resumed. Unfortunately the timing was awful. Fog had already greatly delayed the start of activities on many ranges. Some ranges were able to start nearly on time or with slight delays. Unfortunately, contrary to the " factual" reports of some, ranges such as P were able to start 1 group before the alert sounded. When the alert forced the clearing of all ranges, legistically the window of oportunity for Saturday was lost. Never was a sunny afternoon so sadly welcomed. The alert system, by the way, is a safegard of the mountain. It is not controlled by Ken, or the board, or Snowshoe personnel. It is controlled by radar to detect that which we are unable to see or predict for ourselves. I heard several voices state that " we should decide for ourselves if it is safe" . You just don' t get it. Unfortunately saturday also allowed the emotions and voices of some to be lubricated a bit too much. Sound reasoning is often difficult to hear over big, loud, and obnoxious.

Moving the shoot? Where is weather never a factor? We play our sport outside, and weather is a part of that game. Rain damped the game in PA, Lightning disrupted things in Ohio. This weekend the lights went out in the whole northeast grid. We could have been there just as easy. I' m sure that if we were that would have been Ken' s fault also. I spent 9 days on the mountain. For the week preceeding the event the weather was great. Saturday and Sunday we saw the clouds on top. Monday the bottom was socked in. Only hindsight can accurately predict the perfect time and location.

Could things have gone smoother - sure. I believe, however, that we the shooters contribute greatly to that end. Ken, the B.O.D. , and Snowshoe have a responcibility to perform to the best of their abilities to ensure a smoothly run event. We the shooters have that same responcibility. This weekend we all could have performed better. I know that Snowshoe and the IBO staff instantly began looking at ways to improve their performance in the future. My hope is that we are able to do likewise regarding our own conduct.

I am proud to support and represent the IBO in the State of Ohio. The constructive ideas and suggestions being presented are noted and will be forwarded to the appropriate personnell at a time and manner to ensure their being heard. The immature rantings of some will be treated with all the respect they are due.

Working to secure our heritage:
Chris Turner
Ohio State IBO Rep.

RE: Overall Responce
 

Well said Chris!

RE: Overall Responce
 

You put it very nicely and intelligently. I agree 100%. Good job Chris.

RE: Overall Responce
 

Could not of said it better myself,pat on the back my friend:)

RE: Overall Responce
 

Well spoken! Maybe those who were/are unhappy with the events that took place on the mountain can read your post. Ken, you are in my prayers. Take care and hold your head up.
Jeremiah 29:11


In Christ,

Joel Chavez

RE: Overall Responce
 

bluejacket,

Your response was very well worded and also expected considering your position.

The event scheduled for the weekend at Snowshoe was supposed to be the final shoot of a year that had seen other problems for many people. To list these problems would serve no purpose. The problem in the past has been and remains to be communications during the event for those involved and communications for all members as soon as possible. The breakdown in communications got out of hand when the message of the cancellation of the days shoot was prensented at different locations on the hill by emplayees of the Host site with no clear cut message or understanding of what the archers expectations were for that day. This is not a cheap event for many people and and when the message that the remainder of the event had been cancelled was announced many people with hopes and expectations reacted other than normal. The announcement in the minds of most people came from one source and this was just another disappointment the people were being asked to understand. No other event scheduled for Snowshoe Mountain should be more important that the shooting portion of the championship rounds. The shoot off is not important if all the shooters have not had a fair chance to compete. The extra activities scheduled by outside vendors has less importance than the event that people have paid for in advance, the World Championship. The target auction should have no bearing on the completion of the main event. It seems that many of the contestants felt that some effort should have been made to complete 2days of shooting in a 3 day period scheduled. Closing the opportunity for the majority of the shooters was not what most of the people who had paid the same entry fees expected.

Last year a similar unexpected event occured which was also weather related but it only made people who had qualified for the shoot off disappointed. I may have missed it but I never seen any kind of explanation of what had happened or a plan to take care of any future problems of the same kind.

The comments and replies of the people that were there are not entirely with out justification. Some of the presentation of these comments may not meet with our approval but their ability to relay such comments is the biggest difference.

The IBO and BOD has an opportunity to take a bad situation and learn a valuable lesson. If blaming the unhappy members and trying to justify what happened is the only response forthcoming then I can only say that we all loose.

I too am very disappointed by the abrupt ending of the scheduled WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, and it is going to take more than one positive event to cancell this feeling.

RE: Overall Responce
 

I think the general sense of disappointment is because many people would expect more out of a self-proclaimed world championship. Had this happened at a smaller shoot... one less expensive.... less time consuming.... less demanding... Shall we say, then, less than something expected and billed as the biggest and most prestigious shoot anywhere.... had it been less, I think less would have been expected. I wish I had felt the same way about the World Championships on Friday that I do now. I certainly wouldn' t have felt as pressured realizing that it was just an overblown club shoot with a grandiose title instead of a true world championship that everyone, including the IBO takes VERY seriously.

The result is that a tremendous number of shooters who came now have a different perception of the IBO World Championships than they had on Friday morning. And there aren' t many people who want to spend a week and a lot of money and preparation to attend an event that is considered a fiasco or a joke. If this is to be taken seriously, it needs to be treated like other sports treat their events. If the World Series if a game gets rained out, it gets delayed or replayed or whatever. The umpire doesn' t simply declare whoever had the lead in the 4th inning to be the winner.

Maybe if the official rules stated that whoever was winning with whatever targets get shot will be declared the winner in the event that the IBO decides to cancel shooting on a day for any reason, then maybe there would be a lot less hard feelings. People wouldn' t feel that the rules had changed on them or that the format changed without notification. But if it' s in the rules, I missed it and I thought I read them all. This, I think, is the real reason for the ruffled feathers and feelings of disappointment. What' s been done can' t be undone and the clock can' t be turned back. However, the IBO is, for all intents and purposes, a vendor. The shooters are, for all intents and purposes, customers. The customers complaints need to be listened to and acted on if the IBO wants to keep those customers. I thought I' d throw that out there and if you disagree, that' s perfectly fine. I have no interest in debating this and I' m not castigating anyone or anything. I' m simply trying to analyze and clarify my thoughts; for my own benefit as much as for anyone else, I suppose.

RE: Overall Responce
 

I Agree it is not Kens fault the weather went bad but this makes it no less expensive for the shooters, IBO still made there money and the shooters did not get what they paid for.

I don' t blame Ken for the weather, I agree on his call, but I think he could have had a contingency plan in place or been prepared to return some of the fees. Snowshoe did, if you checked out by 2pm they gave you a half a day back. Snowshoe from what I have seen has been more than cooperative it is IBO that did not do there part in my opinion.

RE: Overall Responce
 

Bob Williams

Well put. The organization has much farther to go to get to the top. Organization being the key word is still lacking and needs to be studied.

RE: Overall Responce
 

" Dissappointment often clouds the mind, sours the heart, and forks the tongue of an otherwise honorable man."

Rings all too true doesn' t it?

RE: Overall Responce
 

Boy, you said a mouthful there, Chris! That' s why most businesses that want to stay in business don' t take a cavalier attitude toward disappointing their customers.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Overall Responce
 

Kudos' to you Chris... Well said and very professional...

I feel things like this should always be expected and thought of when we participate in an outdoor sport...

Think about how many baseball games/car races/golf tournaments etc., etc. have been rain and or weather shortened over the years... I still look at the winners as the winners...

Regards, Pat

RE: Overall Responce
 

I agree. I think that' s why so many people are surprised the IBO didn' t.

RE: Overall Responce
 

I am also an IBO state rep. What I have to say may bring that responsability to an end. If that happens, oh well. I heard from a lot of IBO members sat and sun. The information I got from them was largely the same as the complaints heard here. I belive that more shooters should have been given the chance to shoot in the shoot off. Other events could have been cancled. Ken did the right thing as far as safty was concerned. He did the wrong thing by allowing so few of the top shooters to shoot on sunday. I tried to relay what I was hearing from the members to the BOD members. Several acted like I was making the complaints up, they acted like they thought every one was happy. We have to have a backup plan that will at least let a representive group in the shoot off. Five places is a joke! When ask about a different location the standard answer was who else could have it. If we can accept the way Snowshoe run' s it, then I say just about anyone can host it. Put it out to bids and don' t refuse anyone who wants to bid. Let' s learn from this and get this shoot up to the professional level that it is billed at.

RE: Overall Responce
 

The shoot should be moved because there are people still getting hurt because off the steep mountain sides and at 4000 feet the weather is to unpredictable, The fog has been a problem in past years not just this year. They called for 75 and sunny and we got rain and fog so don' t tell us the weather is going to effect us the same somewhere else, Yes we may have rain but we have a much better chance of shooting in fog at 4000 feet.

RE: Overall Responce
 

THANK YOU Hogwildarch !

RE: Overall Responce
 

as far as the weather, here in missouri we havnt had hardly a drop for a month. move that shoot out here!! just tryin to lighten things up!!:D easton69

RE: Overall Responce
 

I don' t see where the terrain was all that difficult. As a matter of fact I think it is ideal. It is no more difficult terrain than the ranges I shoot here at home, and I have 5 ranges to choose from that are within 45 minutes of my house. What more could you want. It' s downhill walking and a ride back up.

RE: Overall Responce
 

I say move it to Ohio. Bob Evans farm could hold all the people. They have enough land for all the ranges and the town would really enjoy the extra income. The IBO needs to check it out. The farm is in the southern part of Ohio in the town of Rio Grand. Its just a thought.

RE: Overall Responce
 

I agree Bob Evans farm would be a nice place. They definately have the land for all the ranges needed. But I don' t think there would be enough hotels to put all the people that would attend.

RE: Overall Responce
 

Whitetail hunter30 and Gatorsmoon,

Send me some info about this place. I will check this place out and contact IBO office.

Thanks,
Curtis Locker II

RE: Overall Responce
 

This was my first year at the Worlds. I must say I did not entirely enjoy the experience. The terrain was awful for walking (L range), while trying to carry the necessary equipment. Loose rocks, mud, moss. In places, dangerous. One guy in our group has an ankle the size of a football after 4 falls. I had to grab another guy to slow him down on a particularly steep spot. My 7yr old son enjoys going along while I shoot. I' m glad he didn' t. Snowshoe is a beautiful place, and I enjoyed being there with my family. Along with mountains come unpredictable weather patterns, and lightning is always a factor. Not to mention fog. If there is a more shooter friendly place to host the Worlds, look at it. I suspect I' ll go back; just a little less enthused.

RE: Overall Responce
 

:D:D:D Question??? A lot of talk about how terrible the terrain is at Snowshoe, no doubt in my mind its bad, but HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY HUNT PLACES LIKE THAT????? I can' t imagine getting a deer out of a place like that with his hide still on!!! Or me having a heart attack!! I' am a flatlander shooter in tall trees.

RE: Overall Responce
 

Ohio_Curtis

What kind of info do you need? The farm is in southern Ohio in the town of Rio Grand. It has pently of parking and camping area. I believe it has electric and water for camper hook up. I don' t know about the hotels in the area.

RE: Overall Responce
 

Ken I would just like to say Thanks and that it was a tough desion to have to make and realise that it was not soley your own. The only thing that would have helped and may in the future is to have the rules or Plan laid out in the IBO rule book on what will happen in the event of a cancellation On Fri Or Sat Or Sun. How many shooters will be taken and such. Had a Great time with a lot of Great people and the outcome would never dampen my Experiance.. Thanks again Ken and to You too Blue Jacket well said at the start of this posting!!

RE: Overall Responce
 

The one comment that was made about the terrain being unsafe is probably the most accurate statement that I have heard yet. With the number of people that are there and the number of falls that happen every year. It is just a matter of time untill someone will fall and brake there back or neck or worse fracture their scull and become paralyzed or killed. The terrain is bad enough but when you add fog or rain it becomes 100 times worse. Don' t get me wrong I do like Snow Shoe but it is not a very safe place. I know that the IBO is worried about the safety of the shooters when it comes to lightning. The truth is your much more likely to be injured or die from a fall than being struck by lightning. One other comment is how long would it take to get medical treatment to someone that was in the middle of the course on that mountain.

RE: Overall Responce
 

To all of you shooters that were present at snowshoe, why was the shoot called when the sun was shining as Ken Watkins was making his announcement? Why couldn' t they just delayed the shooting time by two hours or so?

RE: Overall Responce
 

At 11:30 the shoot was already about 3.5-4 hours behind I believe. Weather didn' t really clear til at least 1 or so. The puts it about 5 hours behind. Last shooting groups head out around 3 per schedule, which means they won' t start til 6-7, takes
3-4 hours to shoot, they finish about 10:00. that' s why it couldn' t be delayed. There are " possible" other options, but that is what the decision was.

--Bob