Where' s ken
 

where is ken' s responce? i know he was at snowshoe, but he has had 2 days to post his reasoning? with something that affected so many people he should have
posted right away. i know that WV is a little far from cleveland but the internet is available even there. the communications between the ibo and its members was disgracefull to say the least. snowshoe has it own tv channel and was posting that the ranges for saturday were closed. so ken could have just as easily gone on there and told us how and why!! instead we got stories passed from one shooter to another and no one knows what really went on behind closed doors..
come on bowpro we are all waiting!!!!!!

RE: Where' s ken
 

i am sure with a little patience ken will respond to all who are posting. i was there and very disappointed as well. i missed the cut by a couple of points, and had an easier range to shoot on saturday. i am very sure i could have shot well enough to shoot down on sunday.

i have many thoughts in my head. as with many, anger, disappointment, disbelief, and frustration. i personally would have hated to be the one to say " go ahead and shoot" on saturday morning and have a single person hurt on that mountain. i know that ken is in a highly visable situation. i am quite sure he acted with the best intentions for all involved. i paid a 60.00 entry fee to shoot there, it was worth the $30 donation to see everyone safe. they planned for the worst, and got the best. i wish i had those odds at vegas. in reality the ibo was lucky, as were the shooters who did not get injured.

RE: Where' s ken
 

Keith ,
I was 2 points from the cut also . I shot a 194 on R and a guy I was shooting with made it with a 196 on R .
It' s too bad we couldn' t have shot Saturday , but I feel worse that I couln' t come up with 2 more points on Friday .
This was a family vacation for me , and my wife and children had a great time . It' s too bad the weather is so unpredictable at Snowshoe as it' s a great spot to take the family .
Scott

RE: Where' s ken
 

the problem is ken is not respecting the people who spent their time and money to
participate in this shoot. all i have heard is hearsay. ken has had ample time and opportunity to explain what happened on saturday. the faster people know what is going on the more likely the will accept the results, keep us ignorant and tempers prevail. channel 6 on snowshoe' s cable system is their own channel. they were able to tell us that the shoot was called of for saturday. but there was no details as to what was to come. in this day and age it is a shame to not communicate better. ken has had 2 days to post on his own forum and let us know what happened and why it happened. yet tempers still prevail because he doesnt communicate with us. i understand he may be busy but this orginization is waiting to hear from " THE MAN" .

RE: Where' s ken
 

i saw it all , all we needed was jerry springer if there was a code red why did
the rest of the mountain keep running. why didnt andy and barney stop all
the activities, whats the deal,just two hours later we had the best day of the
weekend. if its true that snowshoe called it off we need to look hard at what we
call the IBO world championship. what ever happened it was called to fast.
people travled and spent thousands of dollars and should be treated better.
this is the second time we have had weather related problems there, and it was handled poorly both times.........oh well.oh yea i didnt like the way security
came charging in , all they did was make it worse.

RE: Where' s ken
 

heres how i see it.
first do something to piss off the wife, then disappear for 2 days with no explaination of why you did what you did. what do you think will be awaiting you when you get home?
but it' s ok for ken to do as he pleases without answering to anyone?

RE: Where' s ken
 

Deviator98, You need to give Ken a little time. It usualy takes a couple of days to pack up and get home form a national. They don' t take computers with them so they can' t respond on the road. The IBO has to " clean up" every loose end before they get to go home unlike the shooters. He will respond when he gets home. :) Brian

RE: Where' s ken
 

i dont buy it, there is no excuse for his slow communication on a situation like this.
i am sure snowshoe has computers, and would bet that he has been on to check his e-mail. he' s avoiding us hoping cooler heads will prevail.

RE: Where' s ken
 

TTT

RE: Where' s ken
 

Having a few days to reflect on all this. The blame is the weather. I watched the weather channel at the Inn at the bottom of the mountain. The lightning strikes were closing in. The inn closed the swimming pool because of the warnings. I drove up the mountain to shoot and the fog and rain was terrible. To me risking falling and being miserable wasn' t worth it. I wouldnt have shot anyway. I feel for the guys in the running, but hind sight is twenty/ twenty. Ken Watkins did not act alone, and while everyone did not agree with the final outcome, the weather is still the blame. Let us not forget the boy at Bedford who is still suffering. The IBO is might act a little hasty now, but better than too late. For me as long as I have my health, there is always next year.

RE: Where' s ken
 

A Clarification: What Happened and Why

Saturday morning of the 2003 IBO World Championships saw a cascade of unprecedented events unfold that combined to influence those involved in all levels of tournament management.
Just after dawn, a heavy fog at range check-in points made shooting conditions far from optimal and safe. Soon thereafter, an official Red Alert was announced (lightning/electrical storms in area).
Around 9:30 a.m., the lightning alert was lifted. At that time, range officials decided to start sending groups from the start points from C/D/E (where I was, at that time), as well as most of the other ranges.
Unfortunately, in a short period of time, another Red Alert was called and the ranges were shut down.
Then, as it grew closer to 11: 00 a.m., officials were faced with the potential of “go/no go” situation—the cut-off point when it was logistically impossible for all participants to shoot a full 20-target course in the remaining amount of daylight.
In past years, the IBO guideline regularly utilized under such a scenario has been to go to the last common target for the finals on Sunday.
However, this situation was unique because many classes had not yet shot on common ranges. As a result, it was decided to take the top five from every range/every class combination. If the class was split between ranges, scores started back at zero for the final. Simply, it is not equitable to compare scores from one range to another in this situation.
The classes that shot on a single range on Friday carried their scores for a combined score. Again, there was precedence for this procedure based on past IBO tournaments and decisions.
A clarification about the Red Alert system is also appropriate due to rumor and hearsay. This system is called Thorgard®. It is an automated system that tracks activity in a circle of 15 miles from Snowshoe. If the system detects conditions to be prime for a local lightning strike, a Red Alert is called. As further explanation, a single lightning strike can travel more than 10 miles from its point of origin.
Ignoring such a Red Alert would be negligent on behalf of Snowshoe staff and the IBO.
On the matter of closure of the practice range during the Red Alert—it was done, several times. As soon as an official was out of sight, someone began shooting again.

The IBO Board is in the process of examining further contingencies should such a situation occur in the future (Some were suggested to me Saturday at a much higher than normal volume.) One possibility is a four-day event with the last day as a weather contingency. Another is placing the course starting points lower, with 15 targets to a range. Additional ranges are also being discussed, to bring the start times into a 8:00-to-2:00 time frame.
Hindsight gives each of us a clarity to see what each of us may have done differently. Equity and format required us to go in the directions that were taken. We can change those structures for next time. But to change the process in the middle would deny equitable opportunity for all competitors.
All participants from this year will be notified by letter as soon as any changes or contingencies are official.
The decisions made by the IBO Board and Tournament Staff on Saturday were neither easy nor anticipated. They are decisions no one ever wants to make. We also knew the reaction would be mixed, and unpopular with some. However, shooter safety and well-being is, and will continue to be, the first priority for this and all IBO events.

RE: Where' s ken
 

Well said Ken.

As I have expressed to you before, I do not envy your position when dealing with such trying circumstances. You response to Deviator98 was concise and made sense. Kudos to you for being forthright.

RE: Where' s ken
 

thank you ken for finally responding, i understand that things got a little roudy on saturday. i wasnt in that crowd, but am upset with the handling of the whole situation. i feel the need for better communications between the ibo and the members can not be overlooked. the people at the checkin tents were not sure what was going on, and there was no posting as to how or why things were going to be handled.
also i am upset that the shoot was cancelled, regardless of the reason, we came there to shoot. we should have all been given the opportunity to shoot on sunday.
the way it breaks down now i spent approx. $1000 to shoot 20 arrows. and one of the things that concerns me is that if those same sensors had tripped on friday, i may not have shoot a single arrow all weekend. snowshoe is to much of a gamble,so i am sorry to say i will not be back. it is not worth taking time of work, travel, or lodging when the whole day of shooting can be so easily wiped out. i understand that you can not control the weather, but you do control where and when we shoot.

RE: Where' s ken
 

Ken, Thanks for the responce. This was my first year at Snowshoe and a very nice place it is. I had problems with my qualifying club not sending me a invitation ,so after talking with Judy I felt it in my best interest to get a trophy registration so if my initation didn' t come I wouldn' t be left watching and not shooting. My invitation never came probably due to a mix up at the sponsoring club not giving IBO scorecards out.(I won' t mention the club ,but Judy knows.)I' m glad I did register for trophy because I won 1st place in the tmsr division. Since everything was running late on Sunday and it was a 7 1/2 hr. ride back to PA for us. I personally want to thankyou for giving me my award early so we could leave. I know you can' t please everyone all the time, but I was the leader going into saturday and won the shootoff sunday. Would have loved to shoot on saturday , but am more happy not to be struck by lightning. Thanks for a nice weekend! Yours in archery, Dave Hamilton

RE: Where' s ken
 

I say they need to look into Bob Evans farm in Rio Grande,Ohio. The farm has enough land for all the ranges and enough parking. The only thing I see would be a problem is hotels. But I don' t know if they have built more in the last couple years. If they haven' t Jackson and Chillicothe,Waverly is not to far away.

RE: Where' s ken
 

Ken, Thanks for responding. You had a tough job and a tough call to make. My concern is that it seems as though the officials had to make an off the cuff ruling. In other words there didn' t seem to be a contingency plan and it certainly wasn' t published. People seem to get way more upset if they don' t know the procedures ahead of time. I would like to have seen more than the top five scores taken and more than ten targets for the shootoff (I wasn' t close one way or the other). Snowshoe is a beautiful place, but traversing the courses is a little much for the average archer. Add to that the problem with the weather and it is apparent that changes are in order. I also believe that the entire area gouged our wallets big time. You have a lot of difficult decisions ahead of you. I hope the officials are receptive and responsive to the concerns of the shooters (I know you can' t please everyone). One suggestion would be to go to a golf format where a certain score would have to be shot the first day in order to make the cut for the second day. Shooters that do not make the cut would be eligible for a 30 target trophy shoot to be shot at their leisure on either Sat or Sun. That way in case of bad weather on the second day (like this year) it would be easier to get the championship shooters through the course because alot would be cut after the first day. Even those that are cut would get targets in for the weekend. There are alot of scenarios, but you get the picture. What ever is decided there should be a basic SOP published so that the general membership has some idea and can comment. There are alot of creative minds in the IBO. Please avail yourself of some of the better ideas to improve the organization. Thanks, Steve

RE: Where' s ken
 

LXRocker that " golf" idea is one of the most original and thought provoking ones I have seen here!! I like the basic idea, logistics to work out, but the idea is worth exploring! Shoot 20 on Friday, some % of shooters or base score, above that line you keep going, below that line you go trophy style or some such, worth thinking over in my opinion! EVERYONE would have to go check the scores and getting out the Saturday shoot times would be a challenge, plus setting/staking the " other folks" (which I would be one probably :( ) would be hard and would back up, probably.

As for the fall back plans, it sounds like, from Ken' s explanation there was one:

In the event of bad weather that you can NOT finish the tournament, you " stop" it at the last common target shot (man what a nightmare for score keepers there[:o] ).

The issues:

1) Wasn' t public knowledge
2) Didn' t seem to account for such a HUGE cutback in the tournament
3) Still doesn' t account for different courses, though the further into day 2 you get the less this is an issue.

The " 5" shooters thing I believe is the " normal" shootdown cut isn' t it? If so, then it is the " right" one to use given the above proceedure, however there maybe should be an exception for such a huge cut.

Also, if that is the " standard" rule, it would have been nice to turn us all loose again on Saturday to see how much we could get done, many would have finished only to have some targets not count (which if explained before hand might have been acceptable), many would not have finished in which case some sort of siren/fog horn could be blown at the " end time"

Oh well, hindsight makes it all easy. IBO had to make a call, they did, whatever it was would have made someone unhappy.

--Bob