RE: why is the ibo making up rule as they go
 

Let' s see... We had winners determined last year by not shooting...we have winners determined this year by not shooting...I was wondering how I placed next year? Since we don' t have to shoot to determine a winner anymore, the IBO can mark on our scorecards where they think we will finish and we won' t even have to show up. I can just send then the $2000 I spent and save me the driving time. That is unless they determine I was first, then I would have to go to get my winnings.

Sorry guys, everyone says when scoring they don' t want points they don' t deserve. Now we are giving away championships that aren' t earned. Yeah they may have shot good one day, but in my opinion one day doesn' t make a champion. (I would feel the same way if I was in first after friday)

I would not have been part of the shoot off that didn' t happen last year, but that still left a sour taste in my mouth.

This year I had a chance to be part of the final group and didn' t even have a chance to do so. This really leaves a sour taste.

I don' t like to make decisions while angry (I' m very angry) so I won' t make a decision about next year at this time. But, if pressed to make a decision right now....I won' t be back.

RE: why is the ibo making up rule as they go
 

I don' t understand why everybody keeps trying to make this a safety issue. It is not a safety issue. If it was nobody would have shot those courses on Friday. The courses were all beautiful, challenging, and dangerous. That is part of the challenge. However, the main problem was the lack of preparation for this circumstance. There should have been a published Plan B and Plan C etc. Especially after last year it was unbelievable that no plan existed. Everything should have been done for the shooters to get the max number of targets possible.
Even if only thirty targets were scored and the shootoffs canceled. I know there were other considerations-shootoffs, eagle eye etc. However the main consideration had to be the 40 target course. I think the shooters feel that all options were not exhausted in an effort to get targets shot. So the issue is really communication and lack of preparation. That has to fall squarely on the shoulders of the IBO officials.

RE: why is the ibo making up rule as they go
 

I think the whole point of this thread, and example of we as humans, is that no matter what action was taken, no matter what was done, there would still be the same type of people complaining about something.

You can' t please everybody, all the time. Everyone will think they have a better way, especially if they didn' t shoot that well or didn' t have a good time in general. Like someone said earlier, there was 2 options, that' s it:

1.Do what Ken did
2.Wait until the fog lifts and restart the courses.

With option #2 all you guys would have to wait around for several hours to your next shoot time, whenever that would be since we don' t know if and when the fog would lift, and if you were already on the course, would you want to sit for 5 hours on one target?!? And what if the shooters weren' t done by dark, do you let them walk on down by the targets they will shoot the next day?

Problem is, no one is ever going to be happy with every decision, in fact, some are going to complain no matter what happens. A bank president I knew used the illustration that you could mail every customer a $100 bill and there would still be 5 or 6 people out of a 100 that thought they should get a $110. How many of those 5 or 6 are complaining about the IBO right now?

Jeff...U.P. of Michigan

RE: why is the ibo making up rule as they go
 

Northjeff were you actually there shooting. Did you notice the sunshine when they made the announcement. The fog obviously was not an issue because they sent us out in it at 850 and we shot for 2 1/2 hours. We could barely see the first 4 targets but were told we had to shoot.
When I asked the official what we should do if we could not see our targets he avoided the question entirely.
Don' t sit there and say that people don' t have a legit complaint. THEY DO. If you were one of the people sitting in shaver center waiting for your shoot time then I could understand your ignorance. But some of us had to go out in it.
Oh and another point.....If it was so dangerous on the mountian why did they leave us out there in the woods until the weather passed. They did not send us a bus. We sat at the bottom of the mountian until they started the ski lifts.

RE: why is the ibo making up rule as they go
 

Actually,

This was my 8th IBO World, and around 60th national 3D tournament, from shooting during Bedford in 95 when a kid got struck my lightning, to shooting the ASA Michigan in 2001 when we were too far from shelter to do anything but stay in the woods during a lightning storm, to shooting in Bedford in I believe 96 when many people got heat stroke, to 2 hour wait times per target and 11 hours to shoot 30 targets with a 1/2 hour lunch break, to an ASA Alabams shoot with 30 degree morning start times and fingers numb enough to drop a porcupine.

I had 3 friends out on those courses Saturday morning. One waited over 2 hours and never shot, 1 shot 3 arrows in 2 hours, and 1 shot 3 arrows in 1.5 hours. One walked down the mountain, one walked back up. The point is, it was going too slow to get the thousands of shooters through by dark, and once guys have to walk off the course and get to see future targets, the course is ruined. Me, I was happy I didn' t have to waste my time shooting just 3 targets in 2 hours and the shoot was called before I was to go out. Was I disappointed I couldn' t shoot...darn right!! But could I see that anything could be done different!? Nope. You just gotta role with the puches sometimes.

The guys making the decisions have got a lot of experience, and responsibility. I think some of you guys actually think they sit back and talk about how they can make the shooters mad the most. You can' t please everybody, all the time, that' s a fact.

RE: why is the ibo making up rule as they go
 

NorthJeff,
I believe that there is a 3rd option, and it is called improvise and use some common sense and compassion. No you can’t make everyone happy, but you can at least give it the ole college try. I saw no effort at all by the IBO or Snowshoe to at least make this a legitimate championship. At the least they should have taken the top 10 to 20 scores for the Sunday shoot off. It may not have made everyone happy but it would have showed that they tried.

RE: why is the ibo making up rule as they go
 

Have no fear.....

THE SLAM IS COMING IN 2004.

RE: why is the ibo making up rule as they go
 

Again....why is there no rule stating what is going to happen if bad weather is around? We need to know before hand.
If a situation arises then rule A applies...
If rule A cannot be implemented then rule B applies...
If rule B cannot be implemented then rule C applies... ETC.
With so much at stake why is there no written rules? We cannot have things decided at the whim of whatever Ken decides.
2003 IBO World Championship = 2003 Kenionship.

2002 World Shootoff = cluster ****
2003 World Championship = cluster ****
What next?
Time for some changes

RE: why is the ibo making up rule as they go
 

NorthJeff

I would like to express my opinion about you people that patronise the Officials but that woould make this a personal thread. You tried to group everyone with your thread and your effort to portray yourself as an all knowing expierenced 3D expert only convinces me that you may be a BOD member or acting on some other patronizing impulse. If calling the shoot off was the only alternative then I think that this organization is in big trouble and if you ever become an official we will be closer to the end than we know. The people who are making suggestions in their moments of anger are at least looking at a future way of solving this problem. This is the second year that such an occurance has take place but this year it was much worse. There are very few people on the net that are unhappy compared to the total that are complaining. If you want to analyze and make suggestions about the PROBLEM, take them to the people responsible.