So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

I just looked at the indoor worlds results.If it s just me then I am sorry for writing this.I dont understand why there is almost 3 pages of people that shoot 400' s.I hear that the scores are usually high there.But to shoot 428 (which is great shooting good job) in a " beginner class" is ridiculous.Maybe I am over reacting.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

Maybe I' m wrong but I don' t believe the Hunter class was designed to be or was ever called a beginners class. I know people that have been shooting for years and they are competing in the HC though some of their scores don' t necessarily reflect all their years of experience though.

I think the HC was designed for the folks that don' t have all the more expensive equipment to compete in the higher up classes.

I believe there' s a rule in place stating that if a person wins twice in year they have to move up. Until that happens and as long as they stay within eqipment rules I' d say they have the right to shoot in HC.

JMHO...

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

I think ur right parker shtr it is absolutely rediculous that they would shoot that class. the money isnt there anymore and they arent getting a good rep by shooting the short stakes. Them people should be booted to mbr or something.

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RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

I’m sorry; I am not sure what all the fuss is over the HC. Where does it state that an introductory class has to have low scores? Then who would decide what scores are acceptable? I take it as introductory being the distance is not as long as the other classes and that makes it a little easier for the beginning shooter or average hunter, but not necessarily for them to win. The other thing is some people like shooting their hunting setup which HC is the only class other than the traditional classes that has these restrictions. After all this is supposed to be a bow hunting organization. MBR is no longer a hunter class with the unlimited stabilizer length. I do agree that a score of 429 is kind of discouraging but I blame that mostly on the new 11 ring which I think adds nothing to this sport, but that’s someone else’s decision. Bottom line is pick a class that you enjoy shooting in and have fun and if someone shoots a 429 you just have to say “that is some mighty fine shooting”. I have three suggestions;
1. Do away with the 11 ring
2. If you want an introductory class call it that Introductory Class (IC) and make it to where you can only shoot that class one or two years
3. And if you do number 2 make MBR the Hunter Class with some of the same restriction as the present HC
Just my two cents.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

JDOYLE,
I shot at your club a couple of weeks ago. You guys put on a nice shoot. This is off the topic but could you send me the results.

Thanks

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RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

I don' t understand why people call the hc a beginners class. It may be that someone who has never shot 3d and is new in that respect could be what is meant, but when this class was put in it was to try and get the guy who leaves his bow in the closet to take part and have some fun at a 3d shoot. It does not matter if you have been shooting 3 days, 3 years or 30 years. The ones that seem to get upset are the one' s that haven' t won and think everyone who beat them belongs in another class. The ones that do win have to move up, some who try see they can compete and they move up, and then there is the guy who just wants to be part of it and enjoy himself and that is what it is about. There are 32 classes in IBO so out of 2600 shooters at world there are 32 winners enjoy the class for the reason it was put there to have some fun. Question: should the class be made non-competetive, scores don' t count, pay less of an entry fee and just have for a place for people to get a taste of what a 3d shoot is like?

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

I' ll bet if we had a HC pro class or a rangefinder class a bunch would flock too those as well . Some excellent shooters don' t want too deal with yardage estimation and that' s were the high scores in HC are coming from .
Just my opinion , I shoot MBO .
Scott

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

You know the HC has been the greatest improvement the IBO has made in years. Even our local club has better entries in the HC than anything else, I have shot for years and I am a bowhunter, I shoot in the HC and have won a few times in local shoots but never on a national or world level shoot. I don' t think it is right to ask someone to move out of a amateur class as long as they enjoy it, if you can' t win or compete very well in this then IMPROVE. Yes, I have shot MBR but I didn' t really like that class because you can use a lot of equiptment that is not used during a hunting setup, I did compete but to force someone out of a hunter class is all wrong to me.[8D]

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

I don' t see any problem here. Ifa guy is content shooting in the HunterClass then so be it. Does an MBR participant have to move up a class if they win twice in one year or does an MBO participant have to move up a class if they do the same? No they don' t. If we want to gripe about something then let us find out why the youth classes are not split into fixed pin and adjustable sight classes. I don' t want to hear that it is because of the numbers. There are many classes that would have far less participants than these would if they were divided. We have seperate classes for the female and the male adult classes only seems fair to have the youth classes the same way. Only my opinion.[:o]:eek:

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

okay, here is my .02, i have never seen in the rule book that this is an ability class. the only restriction in this class is equipment, therefore, just as in the open, and mbr, it is an equipment class.
i feel that the addition of the hc has helped many clubs on the local levels greatly. there seems to be a number of posts that reflect that feeling, but, (and there is always a but):D people who travel to the big ibo shoots, are usually, more advanced shooters than the bulk of the shooters at the local club.
i agree that the abiltiy of the shooters in the hc probably exceeds what the class could be used for, but until the ibo has the means of testing a shooters ability, there will be and should not be a change.
i think there are shooters in the open that will never win an ibo national triple crown shoot, or a world shoot. should the ibo cull them out and make them shoot in a lesser class, that would be the same as moving up a hc shooter based on ability.
if you win two events in hc, you are asked by the ibo to move up. that rule is a little scewed, because there are a lot of great shooters in the class. if it were to be truly fair to all, base participation on score alone.
if the shooters in the hc shoot say a 385 or higher at the triple crown, as an average, they probably have the ability to shoot in the mbr class. will this run shooters off, who knows. will leaving the class the same run shooters of lesser ability off, who knows. either way you loose. so you take the lesser of the two evils if you can identify it. any suggestions out there?

back to the club shoots, which benifits the bulk of the board members here with a place to shoot on the weekends, the addition of the hc at the local clubs around here has brought some additional shooters out that normally would not be there. these folks are progressing and most move out of hc after a year or so anyway. most want to shoot in the open class reguardless of ability. these new shooters are our future. the hc gives them a good place to start and stay in the sport. i have asked a number of our new shooters to go to the ibo shoots and the response is always, i cant shoot with the big boys there. then i explain the hc and on occation, they will make the trip to bedford to see what it is all about. most are not concerned with winning, they just want to have fun. in time the drive to get better will take over and most of the shooters around here have moved up without much coaxing.

as for the perception of sandbagging in the hc, yes, there is some going on, and is a matter of character and morals more than ability, the shooters should make the move without the urging of the ibo, but that doesnt seem to be happening.

i cannot say that i have any answers, or solutions, but i am aware of the problem, as it is percieved, but until there is a rules change, at present, there is no infraction being committed.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

A far as the hunter class being for the beginner, I totally agree. There is only one reason why guys drop back to this class, and that is they are tired of getting there butts kicked in the MBO and SP classes . So they drop back to where guys who have just started shooting last year, or even this year, so they can finaly say I beat someone. Probably not even thinking about it that they just beat a guy who bought a new bow last week. As far as the 11 ring. Its A good thing . If you can hit it at a 43yd deer and I can' t you clearly maade a better shot than I did.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

the ibo screwed up on this one by offering so much money the first year of this class, and even though that has been rectified the damage is done, my opinion is also to make it a no money class and give trophies instead.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

i don' t see why the prizes are any different than MBO or any other class. HC is the same thing just different rules.
ON another note..........
Beginners should be out to learn new stuff not to win classes. all this " winning" stuff is getting to peoples head.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

I was just wondering how many of you guys that are so opposed to the hunter class even shoot in it?

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

This subject has been discussed so much it is hard to get any new opinions.
Let us start by checking the records and see what increases the HC has given the IBO in total shooters. Any class that is that successfull as far as drawing shooters at the club level on up is worthy of much study. Even if theses shooters are coming from within the IBO class system who is to say that they could have also dropped out of the IBO because they were unhappy with the class that they were competing in for what ever reason? How can we not say that when this class was formed that many people switched because it better matched their real interest in archery? If being able to win is the only reason that all these people have switched or joined this class why does the class keep growing or at least maintaining high figures. Study some of the facts and think about the overall results of the class and then make suggestions for changes that can be evaluated by the responsible people. If we can only offer things that represents what will best make us a winner on the award stand we are only promoting failure for the class and even the organization. IMHO.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

I would like to respond to all the messages about the HC class. I finished #4 in the Indoor Worlds in the HC class. This was also only my second national event. I finished #98 in the Outdoor Worlds last year in Snowshoe.
I have used the class to start my path of competition in the IBO. This is my second year shooting 3-D' s and after my finish at Snowshoe last year made a solid decision to practice hard all winter, get help from my local pro shop (Strictly Archery,Washington N.J. Tom DiRisio) and make myself a better shooter for 2003.
I did not drop down from the MBO,or MBR classes, and already plan to move up in 2004. I will use the rest of this year to shoot the P.A. triple crown and the Outdoor Worlds in the HC class. I feel this was a great asset for a beginning shooter to learn the ropes of shooting at a national level event. For all the shooters who dropped down to post the big score, I don' t have to wrestle with your conscience, just doing this to tell yourself or your friends you won an IBO event is pretty poor. Keep the class for what it' s used for. Change the rules to not allow anyone from the MBO,or MBR class to drop down once they have shot an event in the upper classes. Thanks to the Parma City Archery club for a great shoot at Cleveland!

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

First let me say congrats to Outshootme for his 4th place this is proof of your hard work and training and I think your moving up next year is the right thing to do. If only more people would fallow in your foot steps HC would not be so frustrating for first year shooters.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

I will be shooting at Bedford for the 1st time, this will be my 1st national shoot. I have enjoyed shooting the local shoots around here for years but I wanted to try a national shoot.I have attended world shoots and national shoots to watch my husband shoot, but now its my turn,I was very intimidated by the idea at 1st but the folks that I shoot indoor leagues and 3D with told me not to worry That I am proficient enough to shoot Bedford.
I usually dont have to shoot past 40 yards at the local shoots except every once in a while, so I dont feel confident enough in my yardage estimations past 40 yards. So I have decided that I will shoot the FHC for the 1st time and hopefully after another year of practice at judging yardage estimations of 40 yards and over I will then return to Bedford and shoot the FBR. So thats my reason for shooting the FHC.
Im really looking forward to the shoot,I just know its gonna be fun:):D

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

Lady Forge - You' ll have a great time at Bedford. Good Luck to ya!

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

Here' s my opinion! I shoot FHC. I shot in the Indoor Worlds this year. I saw more women using the wrong equipment to shoot FHC. If they want to shoot in it, then damn it, use the equipment that your suppose to use. I even heard one of them bragging on how " great" she was doing! Now to me, that is just wrong. But, then again, it takes all kinds, and they will do whatever they can get away with to win!!!! I always consider the sources. If they need to cheat to win, oh, well maybe there conscience will get the best of them in the long run some day!

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

Thanks for the well wishes;)

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

I was under the impression that there are random equiptment checks, Was this not inforced in the FHC class?
Were you not able to file a formal protest in regards to improper equiptment for that class being used? Was that option available at this shoot?
I found it pretty simple to find the info on equiptment that is allowed for the varying classes.
I have not nor will I ever use the same equiptment that my husband uses( except for the Golden Key Premier Rest that we both have one of ).:D I am a different shooter than him, what works for him may not work for me. I have spent the time and the money to find what I like and what works for me. I wont be shooting some Frankenstein Hand Me Down setup from my husband. Ill be shooting my Parker Ultra Lite 31, Stone Mountain String, Golden Key Premier Rest, Toxonics Hybrid IV Sight, My self made custom walnut grip, Limbsavers and mini limb savers, shooting Carbon Express CXL 150s, Either the old Winn Free Flight C-10 release( Which I love) or the King George Extreme with the Talon Head.
Do you see anything here that does not fall within the rules for FHC IBO that I might of missed?
ITS NOT SO HARD TO HAVE A GOOD TIME WHILE PLAYING BY THE RULES.:D

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

Here' s another reason why I know some people shoot HC instead of MBR or MBO..

They work 6 days a week and don' t have the spare time to do much practicing.
At least they can still go out on a Sunday to a shoot and enjoy themselves without having to worry about misjudging distances and losing arrows.

As far as random equipment checks... from what I have seen at the shoots I have been to (Indoor and Outdoor worlds and shoots in between), this needs to be enforced more.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

jhunter - Are you sure the ladies you saw were competing in the FHC? I know the line is pretty full and it' s tough to see who is shooting what. Several of the former FHC competitors moved to FBR this year.
There were lots of officials there, why didn’t you report the violations?

Lady Forge - Remember screw in tips and 4 inch fletching! Have Fun!

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

I agree 100%! The equipment checks do need to be enforced more. For the past two years, plus this years indoor worlds; I have not
seen one equipment check on anyone except the first place winners.

Couldn' t the officials take a look at each shooters equipment when you go to register at the tables for your shoot? That wouldn' t take long to do. I' m not saying to take the time to weigh each persons arrows or bow; just do that randomly; but check visually their equipment. Then you wouldn' t have the problems that jhunter was talking about. They should take a look at each persons binoculars also!

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

It is good to see all the Lady shooters expressing their opinions.

One thing that needs to be done is for the people that want a change in the HC class to make the facts know to the BOD of the IBO directly and through their State Reps.

One solution would be to disband the HC class and to Start a novice class that will be for only persons that understand that their is no awards other than a trophy for the first 3 to five depending on the number of shooters. Their would be no reason for persons to have restrictions on the type of equipment. Yardage would be closer than other classes but would be for begining type archers.

The IBO 3D shoots are for competition and persons that are interested in competing with other archers with similiar equipment and shooting styles. At no time should the IBO attempt to dictate to individuals that they should shoot in a class other than their choice. For years one of the biggest problems with archery has been that a FEW individuals who complain the most to the people making the rules get the most attention and more classes are made to accomadate a few shooters. Their is no reason that a person who is interested in competing in archery in the begining of their competive phase should have to be given a class that will give them instant success. The persons making a new division or class has to be more difinitive regarding the purpose and rules. Each time a change such as was made with the hunter class this change should be well publisized for at least a year prior to the begining of the class and the membership be given a chance to express their opinions regarding such changes or additions.

For the remainder of this year we would do well to register our remarks in writing to the State Reps or directly to the IBO office so that such input can be noted and used at the annual meeting for this purpose. Encourage all people interested in competitive archery to express their thoughts to the appropiate people that can influence the BOD decisions when new items are being considered.

All changes should be made for the benefit of the MAJORITY.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

Im using the CXL 150s for the non IBO Club shoots around here, Ive gotten Gold Tip XT 3555s for bedford with screw in points and the 4 inch pink Vanes;) Thanks for the reminder.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

If a person wants to shoot in the hunter class,or what ever class it shouldnt matter. It is their right. The host club still gets their money. The I.B.O. also gets there part when they go to the triple crowns. As long as these people are involved in archery it shouldnt matter.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

So much controversy???? I think the idea behind the IBO as stated in the preamble is " to promote bowhunting" ie Hunter Class. Although all of the other classes would make you think it promotes Archery Competition!! It makes no difference what class you shoot as long as you are shooting a bow and promoting the shooting of a BOW. Just enjoy what ever you shoot and if you want to try to compete in a class you feel comfortable in, go for it and don' t worry about what if , or he/she shouldn' t, or they shouldn' t etc etc. Abide by the rules, be awed at the great shooters, amazed at the never ending new equipment, and happy with the comradre.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

pselee, that says it all, I AGREE AND hope BOWPRO does too.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

Pselee; worded well!

Bowperson, from what I have read, I agree that more equipment checks are needed. I understand that with the constant new technologies entering the bow market, there may be some unintentional mistakes made. I don' t understantd things like the illegall binoculars. The IBO rules spells these guidelines out clearly.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

I shoot Hunter Fingers class, and I' ve been shooting over 40 years. I shot some IBO competition several years ago, but dropped out for three reasons: the waiting times at the targets were becoming ridiculous, the cost to shoot was getting up there, and the ranges were well beyond what I would ever shoot at game (I' m primarily a hunter, but enjoy targets as well). I recently took another look at the IBO, and found that they had added enough ranges so that the waiting times weren' t as bad. Then when I saw that they had added a class that had ranges of 35 yards and under, I got real interested. Then when I saw that that class also had a lower entry price (and less prize money), I signed up and started shooting IBO again. Seems like it' s made to order for those of us who couldn' t care less about shooting animals at 45 or 50 yards, whether we' ve been shooting for four months or 40 years. I think the IBO hit the nail on the head with the Hunter classes and that' s why they' re so popular.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

Russ, I' m glad to see you have found your way back into our ranks. While the initial thought of creating this class was to create a place for the entry level archer to compete with a lower stress level, they are well aware that there are many experienced shooters who just prefer this class design. The challenge for the organization, is to maintain that " casual" atmosphere for the new shooters, while allowing the 40 year veteran to shoot in the class of choice.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

Russ, I agree completely with your statements.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

I think the classes are for separating equiptment not people.

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

Let me ask you guys a question.........Will I get the ol' " Hairy Eyeball" from shooters in Hunter Class if I' m shooting a nice shiny target colored bow with fancy accessories?

I have never been to a big shoot,(just a local club shooter) and quite honestly ,even tho I eventually plan to ,its just not realistic for me to attempt to COMPETE in Open class or probably even MBR. just not enough time at the longer yardages to get it down yet, and I' d like to make it to Snowshoe and actually have some fun......and actually be competitive at the same time;):D

So that said am I going to catch any flak for shooting I guess what amounts to expensive but HC legal gear in a " Hunter" class and treat it as a serious competition? Not that at 6' 3" and 275lbs I expect to much " direct" flak.........[8D] but more like will I be looked at as an example of " what is wrong" with Hunter Class?

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

Matt.

You can bet your last dollar that you will cop a lot of flak from me if we happen to share the same stake at a shoot:D

The old saying the bigger they are the harder they fall comes to mind size has never worried my 5' 8" 120lb body;)

But it will be all in good fun of course now if we can only get that BowTech_Shooter to join us we will both have some one to pick on[:o][:-];):D

RE: So much for the hunter class being a beginners class?
 

Matt

If this is going to be your first BIG SHOOT, it matters not what people think. I think that with 580 post here, shooting the bull must be your field.:D