Finger

Steve-This is my opinion not directed at you personally. When you pay the entry fees that IBO has $50 in the case of RU I do not feel it out of line for you to have a cash payback. They only give ONE plaque to this class. Now in looking at the breakdown of the $50, $10 goes into the pot for the class, $6 to the IBO(this is the figure I have been told by an IBO representative) and $34 goes to the host club. Regardless of the amount of work a club has in a shoot that is a pretty tidy profit. Now contrast this to the ASA, they payback 70% of the entryfees to the class plus three plaques. BTW the entry is only $30 for Traditional.

As far as rule changes go, I have tendency to agree with you. A few years back I believe RU did shoot 30 or 35yds then it was changed to 25. Look at what they call the classes. The current Longbow(LB) was called MTRD for a long time. The current Traditional(TRD) has been called Hunter Recurve(HR), Traditional Hunter(TH) and I thought there was another one all in the last 5 years. I must say some of the changes are positive. Allowing you two nock between two nocks is a positive change. I guess what you missed on my tirade was they changed the rules because of the involvement in 3DI and then didn't send a team. Personally I could care less what the Europeons or the Asians or anyone else for that matter does at their shoots. I seem to do all my shooting in the good ole USA.

3drchr

I keep shooting the RU class because I enjoy shooting a recurve and am somewhat competetive. I agree the entry fees are going to start hurting, if they haven`t already. I would like to see a way of balance so that the pay outs could be larger and see if that draws more shooters. I won the world in the early 90`s with a payout of 700.00 and yardages up to 60 yards but it was all one class.There was around 90 shooters in the RU class.I did see payout go to almost 1200.00 for a couple of years. Then the yards got closer and this rule was changed and that rule was changed and pretty soon the RU class got split to RU and TRAD. It does seem like change happens alot with this class and as far as string/face walking, it really doesn`t matter because I`ve seen people do well against them doing thegap/instinctive shooting thing. When it comes to competing, you run what you brung, if you want to get to the top then you have to try different methods to see what works for you and if you stay as is then it`s practice, practice, practice to make it work well for you. I`ll stop rambling on and just say, see ya on the course andshoot`em in the middle.

Finger

3drchr it must have been nice to get that kind of payback. By today's standards there would of had to have been 120 shooters just for a winner take all pot that big. Maybe the "hosts" didn't profit as much then. I don't know what the answer is for getting more participation. Whether it is rule changes, lowering entry fees or changing venues. Yes I said changing venues. As IBO shooters we go to Bedford, McKean & Nelsonville year after year so we accept traveling say 5 or 6 hours one way. What if they had a National Triple Crown somewhere else. Might be a nice change. How often have you heard these comments? I hope we are not on top of the hill at Erie again this year. Ya I shot that range last year. I am not going to Nelsonville this yearbecause I am too far out to win. Maybe some change is needed. As far as Trad and Ru being combined, the other organizations due it now. The current Traditional in ASA is basically if you shoot a stick you are in one class. You are allowed a single 12" stabilizer. Finger must touch arrow nock. NFAA Traditional( I know they only have one national 3D shoot) is all sticks, no stabilizer, no string or face walking. ASA has a 25 yard max and NFAA I believe has a 50. The participation for all three organizations is small. Last year the top turnouts were IBO-RU 15 in Bedford, TRAD 19 in Erie;ASA 27 in Texas and NFAA had 3 or 4 at Yankton. If the IBO combined RU & TRAD the largest turnout would have been 32 at Bedford. So is combining the classes the answer? I don't know. Even if you had all three classes combined you would only had 42 shooters at Bedford. That is still not a large class. Maybe we need a Pro Traditional class to get us some respect and recognition. LOL!!!!!!

Judy4

Finger,
Not true! That poll was sent only toRU, TRD, FTRD andLB classes, not the other classes. I know, I did the mailing. And the IBO does not "just change a rule". Rule changes come up most of the timebecause the archers bring them up, that is when they are even opened for discussion by the Board. We get letters, emails and polls done by archers themselves. They are taken to the meetings and discussed at length. I know, I do the minutes at the meetings.
Just wanted to clarify.

Judy

Finger

Judy I guess I missed the mailing on that one. I have been a semi regular in TRD or RU the last 4 or 5 years.

bluejacket

....."to get us some respect and recognition."

See now, it's cheap little quips like this that get under my skin a bit. You don't like a particular rule....That's ok,I understand that, we will never completely satisfy everyone. However, your views regarding a lack of respect are way off base, and serve only to divide the bowhunting comunity rather than to unite. Lets take a look into the validity of the claim.....

1. The IBO established a secondary organization (3DI) and spent years negotiating the establishmentof International 3D competition in an effort to promote our sport and our competitors on a world format. (2/3 of those team memberswere Traditional style shooters)
2. The IBO responded to requests from our membership to implement rules to reflect international standards to help our competitors better prepare for international competition.
3. The IBO engaged our sponsors within the Bowhunting community to cover the expence of sending teamsabroad to represent the USA for International 3D competiotion.
4. The IBO responded to additional requests from our membership (Traditional) to reduce distances for some classes to better reflect the desires of those who do not wish to compete internationally but still want to participate.
5.The IBO/3DI opposed changes implemented for the International events that significantly deviated from the original intent and integrity of the game, and placed our competitors at an unfair disadvantage.
6. The IBO appointed a director to the board, not only because of his knowledge and involvement in the bowhunting community, but also specifically due to his love for and involvement with the traditional segment of our membership, and his desire to recognise, support, and promote their issues within the organization.
7. The IBO established additional practice ranges to reflect the needs of our traditional participation.
8. The IBO has established not 1, but 5 seperate traditional style classes to recognise the varied interests of our membership,and have worked with the strong support of Hocking College to attach scholorship potential for our youth who wish to pursue traditional style shooting.

For anyone who doesn't know it, currently the IBO recognizes the following traditional style classes:
Youth Traditional - includes scholorship potential with Hocking College.
Female Traditional - Allows womento compete on an even field with their peers.
Longbow - Recognizes the historical significance of the class and its equipment.
Traditional - Recognizes the modernization of the class and equipment.
RecurveUn-aided - Recognizestechniques and equipment utilised in international competition.

You can argue that the decisions of the IBO BOD were good or bad, right or wrong. In my opinion, however, if you are looking for signs of a lack of respect or recognition for any of our members or of any element of this sport, you are looking in the wrong direction.

These are of course, only my opinions, and are offered in responce to your opinions previously presented.

Chris Turner

Finger

Chris thank you for your response. It is nice to see a Board Member on here. Let me address a couple of things that you said. First of all the respect and recognition comment I made was followed with LOL(laughing out loud) which means I am joking. We don't need a Pro class. It is is someways about respect and recognition. You should try shooting these classes sometime. The top competitors in these classes are virtualy ignored. Other than the Shooter of the Year getting a picture and little bio in the IBO Yearbook. If you read an archery magazine that has coverage of the big shoots only the Pros get press, we and all the other amatuers are ignored. Try being a stick shooter and then try to get a "shooter"bow from someone.I don't know the exact figures but there are dang few people with a factory shooter bow in these classes. Last year at the IBO World there were 5 Hoyts in the shootdown. How many of those 5 guys got anything from Hoyt previous to the shoot? One and that was because of his participation in 3DI in 05. BTW he kinda shamed Hoyt into doing something.
If you would have read my earlier posts you would see that I don't have a problem with the rules as they stand. The 30 yd max fine, string/face walking if that is what you want to do fine by me. The statement I am trying to make is- The rules were changed, a team was not sent to 3DI and participation fell in all three Male stick classes. I have purposely left Female Trad and Youth Trad out because they normally don't participate in the 3DI.
I thank you for the work that the IBO did to establish the 3DI. I also thank you for the Traditional practice ranges at the NTC & World. I know it was much appreciated by the stick shooters. I also want to apologize to Judy my comments were not directed at her. I just wanted to say that as a participant in probably half the national or world shoots the last three years I was not asked to fill out the poll. Even though it would not have mattered to me about the changes it would have been nice to have been asked.

3drchr

Finger, yes the payout was nice but the way it was done then I`m not sure of. Entry fees were lower but you also had alot more shooters then. The pot was made up of world shoot participant`s fees and world qualifier fees. Now how that was divided is what I`m not sure of. Back then it was common to have 10 to 20 RU shooters at a local shoot,around here anyway. The NTC averaged about 40 to 50 at the first event and 30 or so at the second and about 15 or 20 at the last. I used to hear some guys start talking of going to a compound class for one reason or another. One reason was, more shooters = larger payout. So, we started losing a few here and a few there. I would like to see more shooters in this class and I try to encourage anyone that mentions it. Some even try it and say, man I wish I would`ve pick one of these up a long time ago. So anyone wanting to try it, go for it and you might just get hooked but also give it a chance. See ya on the course and shoot`em in the middle!

ru shooter

finger,just wondered how he shamed hoyt into sponcership?

Finger

Well the story I was told was-After he was told that Hoyt doesn't do anything for recurve 3D shooters, you said well that's ok Mathews will give me two bows. At that point whoever at Hoyt had a change of heart. I would call that kinda shameing them into it. RUshooter if you are who I think you are and you are, are my comments that far off base? Would like to know how Powell, Hawk, Beedy, Irvine, Epling,Steinke,yourself and some others feel. BTW you won't have to drag me around the course at the World this year. LOL!