3. Why 125gr pts or greater? If you get a balanced arrow with a 85 gr or 100 gr tip? Is what you want here a minimum weight arrow? If so, say so!

4. Why restrict arrows to wood? Even Howard Hill used an aluminum arrow to kill an Elephant! Why not encourage archers to shoot what flies best for them out of their Longbow? Don't you think Hill, Bear, Pope and others of the past would use the best shaft material they could find. Why not outlaw forgewood and footed shafts also?

8. 1/8" thick shelf? Why should I have to trim my sealskin shelf with an electric razor. If you want to demand that people shoot with an English Longbow then just make this an English Longbow class.

10. Mediterranean release? What happened to Apache (3-under), and Asiatic? Other IBO classes just say have your index finger touching the nock. What's wrong with that?

11. Yellow stake 35 yds? Why increase the distance another five yards? Why not decrease it to 25 yds? If 3D is a game where we practice for hunting and the average kill is under 15 yds, then isnt practicing at 25 yds far enough? If we just want to make it more difficult, why not require all the classes to shoot from the orange stake and have only one stake?

In a thread regarding junior archers, the advisability of fragmenting the juniors into more and more classes was discussed. Here we have just excluded folks by making rules. You either shoot our way with our type arrows, or you don't shoot, seems to be the attitude.

Thanks for reading my tirade, The Grey Ghost, aka Bill Hayden
(I shoot aluminum 580-688 gr arrows with a 26" draw from a 50# bow using a 3pc LB with seal skin shelf using a 3-under draw.)

Those are the rules that have evolved in a class from competitors input.Those that are in the competitions.
From your comments I assume that you have not competed in IBO events.
I would not argue with your comments and your equipment selection, those are your choices. I even question why the mediterranean, but the rules are those comfortable to the participants.
We did adopt a Hunter recurve class that allows both your differences.Longbow or recurve also.
If you want to play, this class makes it possible.
ken

Hi Ken,

I can already "play" in any class. The Longbow archer is the only one who may do this. I would prefer to be an official competitor in a class appropriate to my skill level and equipment. Without undue restrictions placed on my style of shooting or Longbow equipment. Why don’t you list, by Bowyers name and model, the longbows that do not meet the IBO standards?

The young compound shooters have taken this FOF (fat old fart) under their wing and almost physically drag me around with them at shoots. Other than these young compound shooters, I have received direct encouragement from only one Longbow shooter. I have been competing since January of 2002, and except for the hot months have averaged one shoot a week till the beginning of this deer season.

Not once at any meet did I have an opportunity for input. I am looking for input to create more beginner friendly rules both for others and myself. I thought the idea was to encourage people to shoot the Longbow, not to discourage them.

Therefore, I am assuming, that all you're input comes from the "cream of the crop" that compete in Championship events. If I counted correctly, I found a total of about 40 out of 145 scores that were 300 or better and could have had a harder course. Was it for these 40 competitors that you moved all Longbow shooter back to 35 yards, and forgot about the rest of us?

Bill

Hi Ken,

I can already "play" in any class. The Longbow archer is the only one who may do this. I would prefer to be an official competitor in a class appropriate to my skill level and equipment. Without undue restrictions placed on my style of shooting or Longbow equipment. Why don’t you list, by Bowyers name and model, the longbows that do not meet the IBO standards?

The young compound shooters have taken this FOF (fat old fart) under their wing and almost physically drag me around with them at shoots. Other than these young compound shooters, I have received direct encouragement from only one Longbow shooter. I have been competing since January of 2002, and except for the hot months have averaged one shoot a week till the beginning of this deer season.

Not once at any meet did I have an opportunity for input. I am looking for input to create more beginner friendly rules both for others and myself. I thought the idea was to encourage people to shoot the Longbow, not to discourage them.

Therefore, I am assuming, that all you're input comes from the "cream of the crop" that compete in Championship events. If I counted correctly, I found a total of about 40 out of 145 scores that were 300 or better and could have had a harder course. Was it for these 40 competitors that you moved all Longbow shooter back to 35 yards, and forgot about the rest of us?

Bill

Bill,


I can assure you that we had no control over any of the rule change's ! Well, maybe one hand picked recurve shooter.



Bill Leslie

Hi Bill (Leslie),

I have never had the privilege to shoot a round with you, but we have met and shot on the same course a time or two. I have the utmost respect for your shooting abilities and know that your name appears seven (7) times on the list of top score's in various IBO events for this last year with four of those as the 1st Place Winner of that event and with a 2nd in the World Championship. I would say your credentials speak for themselves.

If they don't even let you have input into modification of rules and regulations, then they certainly wont pay any attention to a peon like me. The reality is they should be paying attention to both of us. This goes even further towards establishing what I believe is "Ivory Tower" standards which escape the reality of the real world. Looks like the BoD, is saying "let them eat cake", to Longbow Hunters.

Thanks for your reply to this thread, and good luck this coming season on the courses and in the field.

Bill Hayden

Two points to make here. The board is not going to consider any new classes until the fall meeting. In the operation of the organization and our tournament year, we are in the middle.
This will allow time to see if there is sufficient participation in the HR class to consider further action.
Ghost, please note that your equipment fits this class. It was structured this way to allow both longbows and recurves.It is done this way to allow broader participation. If the numbers are there a further distincion can be made based upon equipment.We will see how that goes.
I will also say that the distances for several classes are under review.(This one included.)
Do we seek input from individuals? Sometimes. Do we ask at local shoots? That is not really practical. Although to say that input is not provided locally would not be true. Any time any of us are at a local shoot, we certainly recieve comments. But, ascertaining the opinions of a class or group of shooters from a local area is unrealistic. Opinions can and are shaped locally sometimes to much from an individual viewpoint.
You have made some very good points. We will present your letter at the spring meeting for review through the season, and discussion at the fall meeting.
I have often looked for that ivory tower thing, just haven't found it yet.
FYI,you and I and every other shooter have opinions that vary greatly on just about any issue that relates to our sport. Sometimes it is not easy to find the most amicable opinion for the greatest number of us.
Six years ago, MTRD shot from the orange stake at an approximate 50 yards max.Most international organizations still compete in their traditional classes at distances of 50 meters. Some use the FITA max of 70 meters. Ours at 35 is by far the shortest. Are those bowhhunting distances? Ceratainly not, but they are used in competition.
ken12

I remember the days of the orange stakes in the mtrd. THAT was fun !!!!

First let me say how much I appreciate the IBO having a longbow class that is more in line with what the majority of longbow shooters most often actually shoot (wood arrows with a split finger release}This what some see as overly restrictive set of rules allows people insted of equipment or shooting style to compete on an equal basis. As to the distances for this division, this is a game not hunting, I seriously doubt that many of the compound shooters would take a shot at fifty yards while hunting any more than a longbow shooter would at thirty five. They realise it is a game and consider the greater distance a challenge not a handicapp. As to this being a English longbow division I suggest you look at the British Longbow Association if you want to see restrictive rules. The IBO is correct in setting these rules and sticking with them rather than following the lead of earlier organizations such as the NFAA that kept allowing more and more until true traditional shooting was pushed out> There is a place for three under and any arrow so allow those of us who shoot wood and split fingers to have ours. If you are not reciving any encouragement from other longbow shooters (very unusual) perhaps it is because they dont want to change from how they choose to shoot and are tired of always hearing about how it should be from someone who likes to play a different way.

Hi BowPro & Darryl Longbow,

The stated mission of IBO is "To promote, encourage and foster the sport of bowhunting; further bowhunter education; act as a political coordinator and liaison for the protection and advancement of bowhunting; - function as a clearinghouse for essential bowhunter information; and - adhere to the basic ideal of the unification of bowhunters."

I fail to see how divisive rules will bring about this unification. Nor do I see how "protective rules" of any class will do so either.

I believe that all Longbow hunters should be encourage to participate in IBO meets without regard to equipment or style. Therefore, I respectfully submitted the following set of rules. These are modified Traditional rules and form a class called "Longbow Hunters". This set of rules is intended to recognize all Longbow Archers, their equipment, and style, under whatever categories it falls. (English, American Indian, Asiatic, African, South American, or Modern American)(English Longbows, American Flat bows, one piece, two piece or three piece, straight limbs, R/D, radical, contemporary, experimental) (Ishi, Thompson, Young, Pope, Hill, Bear, Mary Rose).

LONGBOW HUNTER (LBH)

All I.B.O. rules apply, and the Longbow rules listed below. There is a 90-lb. Maximum bow weight. THIS CLASS ONLY.
1. Competitors shooting in the longbow hunter class will use a longbow defined as: a bow which when strung the string touches only the nocks of the bow. (I.e. a bare bow).
2. No sight, stabilizers, counter balances, cushion plungers or mechanical adjustments shall be permitted.
3. Arrow shafts shall be identical in length, weight and color, except for normal wear. Arrow shafts may be wood, aluminum, carbon, or a combination of aluminum and carbon. All arrows will be Hunting weight (i.e., a minimum weight of 8.5 to 10.1 or greater, grains per pound of draw weight)
4. Strings shall have single color middle serving with no marks.
5. One string nocking point only is permitted.
6. One additional nock locator, which may be snap-on type, tubing, thread or dental floss tied or served on the servings.
7. Arrow should be shot from the shelf or hand with no elevated rest. Only a piece of leather, fur or similar material 1/4 inch thick or less shall be allowed on the arrow shelf.
8. One anchor point only is permitted. (No string or face walking)
9. Must be shot with glove, finger tab, thumb ring or bare fingers only.
10. While shooting the archer shall touch the arrow with the index finger against the nock
11. An archer may shoot using: a Mediterranean release (one finger over and two under the nock); an Apache release, (three fingers under the nock); or an Asiatic release (use of a thumb ring).
12. The White Longbow Stake shall be set half way between the Orange stake and the 3D target. (As examples. Orange stake at 60 yds, LB stake = 30 yds; Orange = 50 yds, LB = 25 yds; Orange = 40 yds, LB = 20 yds; Orange 30 yds, LB = 15 yds; Orange = 20 yds, LB = 10 yds)
13. Longbow Hunters who normally hunt from longer distances, or who wish to compete from longer distance, (or for any other reason), may elect at registration, to compete against the other competitors in the Longbow Hunter Class by shooting from the yellow stake, or the green stake, or the orange stake.

It is hoped that the above rule would allow all Longbow Hunters to shoot in the 3D games at a distance that is challenging to them and one they just might use under Hunting Conditions. (The "average kill" occurs at 15 yards or under).

The IBO does an excellent job of offering different Classes for Compound Hunters, based on equipment differences, or age and experience. It does a poor job with Recurves and does its worst job with the Longbow.

I believe that there is often a problem with the placement of stakes due to the absence of a clear system for doing this without a rangefinder. If a meet director, set the Orange stake first, then set the 3D target then set the White stake halfway between. (Something that can be done by eyeballing the 3D target and the Orange stake until he finds the middle). Then looking back from the White stake towards the Orange stake he can mentally and visually divide that distance into thirds. The yellow stake would go at the first third (walking back towards the Orange stake) and the Green stake would go at the 2/3's mark. This provides within a yard or two distances in keeping with the original % used without any measuring being required. Orange = 100%, Green = 90%; Yellow = 70%, and White would now be 50%