HC gets the shaft
 

I don't believe that most of the shooters who are spending their money for Nationals & Worlds go to these events to hone & practice their skills. Most of the shooters who just want to practice their skills can do so at various clubs closer to their home and pay a lot less to practice. Sure, we all go for fun, but, I think most people, including me is in HC/FHC because we are not good enough as of yet at the longer ranges. When we get better, then we will move up. So why should we be penalized for just starting out? We sure aren't going to start out at the longer ranges & lose all of our arrows & look ridiculous. Why in the world would the IBO allow the better shooters to move back down to the HC? That's a poor excuse not to give deserved money to the winner of the HC. To me, it's quite simple: don't let the shooters who have a high score that is in a class above HC move back! (I'm sure you can come up w/ a number; say anyone who shoots a 380 & higher) The people that shoot HC/FHC deserve the same treatment & awards as all the other classes? What in the world is the Trophy Class for?! The archers in HC/FHC pay the same entry fees & have to qualify the same, so we should get the same benefits!! If not we shouldn't have to pay the same entry fee. This just gives the IBO more profit.
The certificates are a nice idea & should be given out in all classes except semi-pro, pro, & trophy classes.
As for the SOY program, I think the same shooter who wins their classes to begin with, will also win SOY. The members will just be paying extra to give those shooters more money. We already have a winner for each class!! (By the way, is the IBO going to put any of their profit toward this?)

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

HC entrants do not pay the same entry fees atthe National Championship Triple Crown. The same dollars from your entry fees are put into the purse at the World as the other classes.The cash awards are capped. The dollars that are left are put into awards for the class. Those awards were sent out last week.We bought 98 gift certificates for the HC's.
Just for the heck of it I looked at the top shooters at the worlds(in HC). I noticed that it is still infested with shooters that probably should be shooting either MBO or MBR. If this change for this year does not gear the class further in the direction that we are looking for, further adjustments will be made.
As far as basing class selection on score; at which range? At what level of difficulty?
AS far as your comments about IBO making more profit from a HC shooter, you are wrong there also. The percentage to IBO is the same for all shooters.
FYI, in parlaying the monies for the gift certificates; we were able to purchase more in gift certificates that the dollars that we had for the purchase. So in actuality the HC got a better return than any other class.
ken12

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

If I have to hear one more HC shooter cry I think I will vomit. If you want to be treated like a big boy (prize money and all) then shoot with the big boys, otherwise shut up.

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

BowPro, you mention a change in HC to get the class more in the intended direction. What would that be? Thanks.

Phil.
"Could you guys be quiet, my dad's trying to shoot."

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

No changes now.
The results from 02 have to sink in and we will see how the changes in 02 affect 03.
ken12

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

Thanks BowPro. I think you'd have to agree that if HC is intended as an entry level class, a new shooter seeing scores in the 380's & 90's might wonder. For some people it's "just for fun", no care about the high scores, just their's. For others that wish to be competitive, it can be overwhelming. In some shotgun sports, a shooter is required to move up after winning X number of times in their class. They cannot move back down. Trapshooting has the handicap system. Maybe the top shooters could be moved to the green stakes, if they wish to shoot HC. I'm sure there's no easy answer, but if new shooters are starting in HC, going up against shooters that belong in higher classes won't help to add new blood.
ARCHERYXPERT, just curious, what class are you in? You're apparently an expert, given the screen name. What are your thoughts on this?
BTW, I don't care about the prize money much. I don't expect to support my family by shooting 3D. So I'm more interested in shooting well. But it's nice to feel one has a chance.

Phil.
"Could you guys be quiet, my dad's trying to shoot."

Edited by - pdq 5oh on 10/21/2002 20:32:51

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

pdq 50h: I shoot MBO in the IBO and Open B in the ASA it you must know. The HC should be for New shooters only one year in the class then out. The MBR class is only 10 yds more, ten little steps Let the new guys and beginners have a shot at winning a national tournament.The asa has a similar class, it is for first year shooters and shooters who shot in that class the prev. year and did not win any money.You can not shoot in that class after you have shot in any other class. These guys who want to go into the HC and shoot 396 to make them feel big are a joke.

Fastsfletch: I am not here to promote archery I am here to shoot, and I am entitled to my opinion just as you are yours, it's just that i don't cry about mine. My point is this if you don't like the class or the organizations that you shoot in get out and move on, but please quit crying about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

Xpert, why not take your own advice: Move on or quit crying about it.
There is nothing wrong with change, or someone trying to promote change. If you don't like it, don't read and quit crying about it.
I personally don't care about the prize money in HC, but others may. If they want to advocate a for a change they certainly can - they'll either be successful, or not.
Either way, it doesn't sound like it has an effect on you, so quit crying about it.

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

RUSTY: YOU SOUND A LITTLE DEFENSIVE YOU MUST BE ONE THOSE CRYING ABOUT THE HC MONEY. I PERSONALY AM NOT CRYING I STATED ONCE THAT BEATING THE HC DEAD HORSE WAS GETTING BORING TO READ IN EVERY FORUM. AFTER THAT I SIMPLY RESPONDED TO PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF WHO TRY AND DEFEND THE ENDLESS BICKERING ABOUT THE HC MONEY SITUATION. LIKE I SAID BEFORE IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE HC MONEY SITUATION MOVE TO ANOTHER CLASS, IF THAT OFFENDS YOU I APOLOGIZE. I DID NOT KNOW SO MANY SHOOTERS AND HUNTERS HAD SUCH DELICATE FEELINGS.

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

Bowperson, You said "Should we be penalized for just starting out? We sure aren't going to start out at the longer ranges and lose our arrows and look ridiculous." How do you think that 90% of the people shooting today started out? HC has only been around for 3 years. That was just a fact of life 4 years ago when you started out. And get this- back then MBR was your entry level class, with a max yardage of 50 yards. That was the plain and simple reason behind starting Hunter Class- so that the IBO could attract more entry level shooters into their ranks.

Pinmaster

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

Xpert, don't read so good huh?
Money, in regard to prizes, means nothing to me, but it apparently does to some. They have that right, and the right to advocate for a change.
Yet the mention of it provokes "crying" comments from you. If you don't want to hear more about HC, don't read the posts. Its that simple.
As far as defensive, no. Annoyed with self righteousness, yes. If you disagree with what the person who started this thread has to say, make your point or don't read it; but, insulting comments like your first post are unnecessary.
So, if reading this thread is going to make you vomit, don't read it. Everyone will likely be happier if you keep your stomach contents down.

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

JDoyle, I will not change my tune, even if I would get a gift certificate. The only way I would change my tune, is if you or someone else would give me a good reason why HC/FHC is being treated as a lower class(for lack of a better term)shooters.

Thanks,rustywreck, all forum readers should have your attitude, whether they agree or disagree.

And, as for the so called archeryxpert; I and many others certainly don't feel that the shooters that shoot a 396 in HC are a joke! I for one think they are good shooters. I strive to get to that point sometime. And when they win their class twice, then they will move up.

By the way pinmaster, I didn't even know about the IBO 4 years ago. And if I did,and 50 yds. was max for entry level shooters, I would of never came to World's or any other Championship.

Now, to all who reads this; When I posted my first thread, it was the first time I ever heard about this $500 cap on HC/FHC and why the IBO did this. Why didn't we hear about this before World's this past August? What I don't understand is why you say HC is infested with shooters that probably should be shooting MBO or MBR. It would be the same thing in MBO & MBR where you have shooters that shoot high scores all of the time and don't move up to Semi-pro or Pro. I see nothing wrong with that. If you would have to move up just because you constantly get a high score, but don't win, most shooters would never make it to the top of a class. Also, if a shooter is not shooting as good as he use to, why shouldn't he move back? I don't see any problem with that either. Someone, please explain this to me, because I just don't get it! I would think that the Trophy Classes are for the beginners, not HC/FHC. And then the HC classes are just the next stage up from beginners and then MBO, etc. and then finally Pro classes. Why are some people putting the shooters in HC down? When I first started in 2001; I shot in the Trophy class because I was a beginner and knew I would probably be last on the list. Needless to say I wasn't the very last. This past August at World's , I shot the money class and did better then my first year, which by the way was my goal. I sincerely intend to proceed on to the higher classes eventually. So again, why isn't the HC/FHC given 10% the same as other classes? And why does the IBO have a problem with shooters in HC/FHC staying there until they take 1st place twice, the same as the other classes? The Trophy Classes should be left for beginners! And the HC classes should be treated with the same respect as all the other classes!
As I stated before, this just doesn't make sense to me at all!!

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

Bowperson, I don't know why you did not hear about the cap on winnings for the HC's untill now. The information is and has been out for some time. I am also sorry to hear that you feel punished, penalised, persecuted or abused by the system. I can assure you the intent was not to create a lower class of people when the organization formed a class designed towards the entry level shooter. I can also assure you that this class always was and will be for the immediate future dedicated towards that entry level status. If you were unaware of this you have my sympathy. I am also sorry that you can not see the greater good that is done by protecting a class for the entry level shooters from those that would take advantage of it. It is truely a shame that you can not see the effort being made to take care of this class, and not because of infiriority, but because of the extreme importance which they symbolize. I realize that you would do things differently, but perhaps with the passing of time you will see the benefits of what has been started. I don't think that anyone is currently telling you that you must change your class or that you are in any way a bad or lower class individual for shooting there. I have multiple friends who shoot there and all are fine people. The only difference that I see is that they except the class as it was intended.

Respectfully: Chris

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

Bluejacket, I don't know, either why I haven't heard about the cap. I didn't see it in the rules index, nor do I see it in the 2002 rule changes. Am I missing it somewhere?

What is this class intended for, other then entry level. Please enlighten me.

I did not say I'd do anything differently except treat HC/FHC the same with respect to awards. And yes, as I stated above, the gift certificates are a nice idea. Why not money and gift certificates. MBO is such a large class, they should get gift certificates also. That way more of them have something to work towards.

HC/FHC is fine to be dedicated towards the entry level status. This is not the issue.
What are you protecting the HC/FHC from? BowPro stated that HC is still infested with shooters that probably should be shooting either MBO or MBR. What would make MBO and MBR any different?

And again, I ask what are the Trophy classes for? Don't say for those who don't qualify; I know that much; but obviously most of them are beginners. That's where I started out.

And Chris, I have many friends shooting in HC/FHC also, and of course we are all fine people. Tell that to others, not me! I didn't say such a stupid thing!!

Someone answer the above questions and don't leave any out.
Thanks

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

ARCHERYX, I agree with your views regarding shooters moving down, and shooting 90's. It's ridiculous!! I agree, as well, with the idea of one year & out, if you win. If HC is the entry level class, then why are shooters allowed to move down to compete? I just started 3D this past summer, and feel competetive with people of similar experience. But when shooters with years of experience move down, it's no longer an "entry level" class.
bowperson, I don't see how HC can be considered entry level when shooters are allowed to move down. Explain that to me.
bluejacket, how is HC being "protected" from advantage takers?

Phil.
&quot;Could you guys be quiet, my dad's trying to shoot.&quot;<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

Fasstfletch, I agree with you 100%!
Just one more question, Why doesn't the IBO send letters to all members stating the changes they would like to make, so that, we, the members can voice our opinions before the committee votes on these topics?
Enough said.

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

bowperson, I have NOTHING to dowith the rule making, so this is just my opinion on all this:

&gt;Am I missing it somewhere?
I haven't looked at the rules latesly, but the payout info I don't believe is there for any class .Maybe it should be.

&gt;What is this class intended for, other then entry level. Please &gt;enlighten me.
I believe HC was originally put in for both beginners, and hunters, folks who don't want to try adn compete with the 3D specific bows, long stabilizers, 5gr/lb arrows etc. It was for an introductory class on one hand, but also a class for people who want to shoot 3D, but want to do it with a hunting setup which typically is not compatible with a top 3D setup.

&gt;HC/FHC is fine to be dedicated towards the entry level status. This &gt;is not the issue.
&gt;What are you protecting the HC/FHC from?

The first year HC was a class, the amount of shooters who dropped down from MBO, MBR, SPM and I beleive even Pro was HUGE. The payout for this class at the worlds was larger than any division with the exception of PMR. I know people who dropped from SPM to HC for the sole purpose of winning the money. People who shoot 395+ don't &quot;normally&quot; fit the description of what this class was intended for, sure, some folks, with hunter setups can do it, but they are rare. What are they being protected from? Simple, remember the second part of the HC, to allow folks in as a beginner level which is less competitive. This gets blown away by the people who drop and shoot high 390's.

&gt;BowPro stated that HC is still infested with shooters that probably &gt;should be shooting either MBO or MBR. What would make MBO and MBR &gt;any different?
The only place MBO can drop from is pro/semi-pro. The top MBO shooters are shooting the same equipment at roughly the same distances and shoot the same scores, there is no advantage to dropping into MBO EXCEPT the lower entry fee. MBR is basically the same, it is the top class for pin shooters.

&gt;And again, I ask what are the Trophy classes for? Don't say for &gt;those who don't qualify; I know that much; but obviously most of &gt;them are beginners. That's where I started out.

Another aspect of the trophy shoots, at least in my mind, is families. My family goes to the worlds, my wife shoots the money round, myself and the boys would have shot the trophy round this year, but it too got to big and we wouldn't have been able to shoot together. Sure, its for the beginner/non-qualifiers. But it is also for the family people who want to go to experience the worlds, but want to shoot with their family (IBO, please make this happen, shoot with a group you show up with)

As far as why they don't send out letters, remember the IBO membership is much more than 3D so sending to all members is logistically not much sense. Second, all members get a magazine that has all the IBO news in it, third, return on mailed questionaires is notoriously low, fourth, they have done the questionaires at the national/world level shoots in the past and they get little to no response.

Just my opinion.

--Bob

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

Bob H in NH,
&quot;The first year HC was a class, the amount of shooters who dropped down from MBO, MBR, SPM and I beleive even Pro was HUGE. The payout for this class at the worlds was larger than any division with the exception of PMR. I know people who dropped from SPM to HC for the sole purpose of winning the money. People who shoot 395+ don't &quot;normally&quot; fit the description of what this class was intended for, sure, some folks, with hunter setups can do it, but they are rare. What are they being protected from? Simple, remember the second part of the HC, to allow folks in as a beginner level which is less competitive. This gets blown away by the people who drop and shoot high 390's&quot;
My sentiments exactly. This is one thing that removes hunter class as an entry level class.
&quot;I believe HC was originally put in for both beginners, and hunters, folks who don't want to try adn compete with the 3D specific bows, long stabilizers, 5gr/lb arrows etc. It was for an introductory class on one hand, but also a class for people who want to shoot 3D, but want to do it with a hunting setup which typically is not compatible with a top 3D setup.&quot;
This I feel is the other. I was ripped for an earlier post regarding the equipment used in HC. Target bows with pins & 12&quot; stabilizers, in target colors, don't have a place in the woods, IMO. I'd never want to carry a 6+ pound bow around all day.


Phil.
&quot;Could you guys be quiet, my dad's trying to shoot.&quot;<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

I don't know if I will be successful, but I will try to explain what the purpose of HC's and the trophy classes are. I will trust Bowpro or any of the powers that be to correct me if I err.

When referring to entry level shooters, we are not always referring to new shooters. You have to remember the real purpose of the IBO. They promote, advocate, and educate hunting or hunters. The game of 3D is a fantastically successful way to encourage the bowhunting populace to pick up their bows all year long. It also offers a way to combine the intencity of the target archer with the determination of the bowhunter. The combined effect is a very accurate hunter who is very familiar with his/her equipment and its limitations. Net result: safer hunters better representing the hunting community. A few weeks back, we saw posts lamenting the casual attitude of some who pick up their equipment a week before hunting season. We want to get them involved so that we can change that attitude. &lt; By the way, I frequently refer to the IBO as we. This is my organization just as it is yours. I believe in the organization, and will actively support its attempt to improve hunting and archery in general.&gt;

I am currently the president of our local archery club, and I make it a point to talk with members. I try to discover why many have left and what brings many of them back. The truth from my vantage point, is that many are intimidated by the intense competitive flavor of many of the events. Maintaining a casual, entry level class, gives us the opportunity to draw these folks into the game. They are often surprising at just how competitive they become.

As for the trophy class, again many don't feel that they can compete at a national or world level event. Consequently they don't try to qualify. We are often able to convince them that they could just shoot the trophy round. Once there many realize &quot;I could do that&quot; and proceed to do so. Ken told me something one time that has stuck. The best shooter out there we have probably never met. He's the guy/gal just out back shooting squirels or spots. I for one would like to meet that individual.

By the way: the purpose of a class does not change just because people abuse its existance. It only points out that attempts must be made to try to change the abuse patterns. What has been done has helped, the new attempt may help more. My hope is that folks fiqure this out before more aggressive attempts have to be made.

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

Bowperson: The joke of a 396 in HC is not the score itself but the level at which the score was reached. If you can shoot anything over a 390 you are most certainly not a beginner and do not belong in the HC!!!!!!!!!! It would be like playing one on one basketball with your 12 year old son and beating him 25 to zero, that is the joke. It does not make the HC a lower class, just a different class that is geared for beginners. The only way to keep more accomplished shooters out of the HC is simply not awarding big dollars to win in that class. Then they will move back up the food chain, MBO and MBR is were these shooter belong because their is no restriction on experience or skill.

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

bluejacket, thanks for these words: &quot;When referring to entry level shooters, we are not always referring to new shooters. You have to remember the real purpose of the IBO. They promote, advocate, and educate hunting or hunters. The game of 3D is a fantastically successful way to encourage the bowhunting populace to pick up their bows all year long. It also offers a way to combine the intencity of the target archer with the determination of the bowhunter. The combined effect is a very accurate hunter who is very familiar with his/her equipment and its limitations.&quot;

This is where the equipment rules are lax. I don't know how the IBO can identify a hunting bow, but it certainly isn't bright blue with chrome cams & accessories. I suppose the real problem lies in the shooters that don't belong in the class. I realize there are shooters out there that can, and do, shoot high scores. But they should be moved along, and kept out of HC after they are moved up.

Phil.
&quot;Could you guys be quiet, my dad's trying to shoot.&quot;<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

pdq 5oh, While I understand your feelings regarding target bows, it is not that easy. I know that I can not tell how much experience someone has by the color of their bow. To some people a bright sparkly, chrome trimmed bow is just pretty. To be honest, more are probably sold for that factor than for their performance features. Now would you or I or anyone else who grew up around hunting carry such a bow into the woods hoping for hunting success? No. But that is not to say that noone would. I am sure there is someone out there who hunts with a fully tripped out target bow. There are just too many different personalities to rule that out.

As for drop backs, we also have to recognize that there are legitimate reasons for people to want to drop down into that class. I know of people who have trouble seeing well beyond 30 or so yards. Then there are physical impairments which limit how well an individual can shoot. I also know of people who have burned out on the upper competition. All of these people are struggling trying to hold on to their participation in this game for as long as they can. These individuals will usually place mid to 3/4 up on the list of shooters. Once in a while they may still put together a great day of shooting. They are not really the problem. The problem arises from those individuals who were tough competition in the upper ranks, but never quite made it all the way. When they drop for the sole purpose of trying to defeat a &quot;entry&quot; class shooter, it becomes very demoralizing. That class can and will be won by shooters who progress their way through it. I would not be surprised to find someone start shooting this year, enter that class as a newbie and dominate come worlds. I just hope that he then carries on to teach the rest of us a thing or two about shooting as he/she progresses through the rest of the class structure.

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

I just don't understand why people have to bitch and complain about every little thing that someone else does or doesn't do .We all know that alot of the shooters in HC are people that should be shooting in another class. If that is what class they want to shoot in so be it. Just shoot your class and QUIT complaining about the HC. I am and I am sure that everyone is sick of hearing about it. Personally I can't wait til 3-D season starts again.I get bored setting a treestand and not getting to shoot, when you go to a 3-D shoot I can promise you that you will get to shoot at least 30 times.



>>>-----> SHOOT STRAIT DURANGOSHOOTER

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

Jump up a class or two and quit





>>>-----> SHOOT STRAIT DURANGOSHOOTER

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

Fastfletch: To answer your question, for me....no. I started shooting in MBO when I was only using my hunting bow setup. I competed for 2 years that way before adding a scope, then stabiliser ect. When I eventually win, I will have done so defeating the toughest competition I could find. The challenge of getting there and the improvements along the way are my reward. Any thing else will just be gravy.

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

I don't think the color of your bow make's you shoot better then shooting a camo colored bow.Most of the guy's shooting in the HC Class are shooting bows with a camo paint job on them,color makes NO differnece.I cannot beleive the crying and whining that go's on here about the people shooting in the HC class,if you don't like getting beat,learn to shoot better.You can change all the rule's you want to,but,the better shooter's are alway's going to be at the top.What do you guy's want the I.B.O. to do?Keep changing the rule's until you find a class you can win in?We shot behind some guy's at a local shoot,they dropped back to the HC class thinking how much easier it was going to be for them to win.They told us what a suprise they got by going back with the fixed pins and the competition level.So I don't beleive it would matter what rules you change.I don't beleive you should penalize a person because he or she shoots a good score,or has the ability to do so,90 percent of the people shooting are shooting to have a good time and to help with there hunting.There can only be one winner in each class.Archery is 90 percent mental,with this kind of attitude,most of you are beat before you shoot you first arrow.Ask yourself this,what seperates the guy's shooting the 390's score's from yourselve's,they KNOW they can shoot the high score's.By the way,I shoot in the mid 270's,can the IBO set up a class for me so I can win something also??

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

bluejacket, I understand the color of a bow doesn't determine how it will shoot. I also understand that equipment rules have got to be very hard to set. I just don't feel the intent of HC is well served, as it is now. I constantly work to improve my shooting and range estimating skills. Hopefully I can get there. I appreciate you're taking the time to answer my concerns in a friendly manner.
durangoshooter, you were one that was less than &quot;friendly&quot; in another thread I participated in. Maybe you need to learn better stand placement.
This thread seems to be deteriorating, so I'll go now. Thanks to those who answered constructively. To those who didn't.......
I was thinking (dangerous). This is not bitching, but the concerns of what the IBO is trying to attract with HC, new shooters.

Phil.
&quot;Could you guys be quiet, my dad's trying to shoot.&quot;<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Edited by - pdq 5oh on 10/28/2002 09:15:15

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

Not really meaning to be &quot;unfriendly&quot; if that is how I come across.....I am sorry. But like I said I just get tired of hearing all the crying about the HCagain I'm sorry to have stepped on anyones toes lets all be friends and be happy

>>>-----> SHOOT STRAIT DURANGOSHOOTER

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

So, what's worse: Someone crying about HC; or someone crying about someone crying about HC?
Or, could it be someone crying about someone crying about someone crying about HC?
I just, accidentally, used a hammer on my thumb. So if you want to hear something other than crying, open your window and listen - you can probably hear me. Well, maybe a little crying.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

I prefer to be friends. Alot more gets done that way. I hope to meet some of the people on the BBS this coming summer, shooting some 3D.
BTW, I'll be the one with the 48&quot; red, white, & blue target bow with the gold wheels & fixed pin sight in HC. I haven't decided on the color for the stabilizer. Maybe hot pink.<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Phil.
&quot;Could you guys be quiet, my dad's trying to shoot.&quot;<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

Who said HC is just for beginners???? Bow Pro??? The rule book?? The kid on the corner??? If you read the preamble to the IBO it states &quot;to promote B O W H U N T I N G &quot; not competition classes. Anyone should be able to shoot HC as long as the equipment standards are met and for as long as they want( but not be able to monopolize the top slots). If you force and old,expierenced shooter to move to another class, you also force them to change equipment to remain competitive, and thats not being fair. Bowhunting is what got this thing called IBO started, not competition archery. Although it seems more like competition now. I thank Bow Pro tremendously for introducing the HC class; and it seems that as large as it is so do a lot of other shooters. The Gift certificates were quite good and numerous, and if you add it all up and count how many got something, it was a pretty good award for the HC class. What HC really needs is youth class , a novice class, a masters class, and a seniors class.

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

I WOULD JUST LIKE TO ADD MY TWO CENTS, THIS PAST YEAR I STARTED BACK INTO 3-D AND BOWHUNTING AFTER 5 YEARS OUT, I ONLY SHOT FOR ABOUT 1 1/2 YEARS THEN, BUT DID SHOOT OPEN EQUIPMENT CLASSES IN ASA AND IBO EVENTS THAT I ATTENDED USUALLY WITH A HUNTING SETUP. NOW, THIS MOST RECENT YEAR I REFOUND MY HOBBY OF CHOICE, I COULD AND CAN STILL STAND IN THE YARD AND SHOOT 2-3-4 HOURS A DAY AND IT WOULD NOT BECOME BORING FOR ME. LETS FACE IT, TOO MUCH STUFF BREAKS, BENDS, OR RETUNES ITSELF WITHOUT US WANTING IT TO. THIS YEAR I SHOT THE 3RD LEG AND WORLD TROPHY ROUND. I DID NOT DO GREAT IN HC, 340s AND 360s RESPECTIVELY BUT I DID HAVE A GOOD TIME AND SHOT WITH SOME INTERESTING PEOPLE. BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, I KEPT IMPROVING. THIS GAVE ME SOME SORT OF SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT AND SATISFACTION. I WILL ALSO SHOOT THIS CLASS NEXT YEAR BUT DONT INTEND TO THE FOLLOWING (MAYBE MBR). I DONT FEEL AS THOUGH I SHOULD BE ABLE TO OUTSHOOT EVERYONE IN THE CLASS THAT I AM SHOOTING IN EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD BE NICE TO DO AT A LARGE SHOOT. ALSO, I LEFT THE WORLD TROPHY SHOOT WITH TWO THINGS, THE KNOWLEDGE THAT I AM IMPROVING AND WILL BE MORE COMPETITIVE NEXT YEAR, AND A COMFORT LEVEL IN MYSELF KNOWING THAT I ACHIEVED MY GOAL OF SHOOTING BETTER THAN BEFORE. NEXT YEAR AT BEDFORD, IM GOING FOR A 380s THEN MORE AT MCKEAN. I DONT SHOOT FOR ANYONE ELSES PLEASURE BUT MY OWN AND BEING ABLE TO BE COMPETITIVE GIVES ME THAT, AND I WILL MOVE ON IN CLASSES UNTILL I CANT ANYMORE. I DIDNT TAKE THE TROPHY HOME FROM THE WORLD, I TOOK SOMETHING MORE.

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

VERY WELL PUT butch. Now if we could just get everyone else to follow in your steps the HC would be better and the other ones would have more competitors also.

>>>-----> SHOOT STRAIT DURANGOSHOOTER

RE: HC gets the shaft
 

Why can't we all just get along?