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Sorry, guys, I gotta take a little sabbatical from here...

Off Season This is the place to kick back and shoot the breeze.

Sorry, guys, I gotta take a little sabbatical from here...

Old 10-18-2020, 02:59 PM
  #11  
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I wish it were that simple CI. But's it's often not so simple. Butch isn't the first member to leave and won't be the last. People have less patience with all of this covid house arrest stuff going on but it's more than that. A lot of people are getting fed up with bots and trolls posting on HNI and Mods have to wait until it's obvious or they break a rule so they can be banned. Meanwhile, many of those bots and trolls post meaningless or useless drivel that just messes up a topic for people trying to read it for information or discussion. This has led to less patience in many members and posts that sometimes are overly harsh when not needed or helpful. So a beginner or somebody with less experience/expertise, etc. posts something that isn't up to standard for the more experienced and technical members and it receives responses that are based on that expertise level instead of just answering or posting about the member's level. It's a Catch-22. Post just positive and the less experienced member doesn't learn or improve. Post too much technical detail and the member decides they're being impugned or belittled. And then want to leave so they don't have to be belittled anymore.

This topic and the original post that it was about are a perfect example. A member who likely never takes shots at game over 200 yards (probably rarely over 100 yards) posted a target shot with a rifle that pretty much resides in his gunsafe and is rarely used or sighted in. More technical members posted that the group isn't that great for longer distance shooting. Both are correct. But 1 felt maligned or belittled when he shouldn't. Any buck he shot at 100 yards or so would be quite dead and wouldn't know that his rifle didn't group into less than .5 MOA. The OP could have explained a bit more that he was only concerned about deer hunting back East and he rarely needs to shoot much past 100 yards. The more technical members responding could have pointed out that the rifle was fine for that kind of deer hunting (what the OP uses the rifle for) but wouldn't the the best rifle or caliber for long distance shooting at 1,000 yards or greater distance. In fairness, the topic wasn't about long distance shooting anyway but that's another issue.

So it's kind of you to vote Butch back on the island so to speak but I don't think that's an issue for Butch as he's pretty much a plank-owner anyway. At this point, it's strictly up to Butch. FWIW, I hope he comes back also.
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Old 10-18-2020, 03:42 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by CalHunter View Post
I wish it were that simple CI. But's it's often not so simple. Butch isn't the first member to leave and won't be the last. People have less patience with all of this covid house arrest stuff going on but it's more than that. A lot of people are getting fed up with bots and trolls posting on HNI and Mods have to wait until it's obvious or they break a rule so they can be banned. Meanwhile, many of those bots and trolls post meaningless or useless drivel that just messes up a topic for people trying to read it for information or discussion. This has led to less patience in many members and posts that sometimes are overly harsh when not needed or helpful. So a beginner or somebody with less experience/expertise, etc. posts something that isn't up to standard for the more experienced and technical members and it receives responses that are based on that expertise level instead of just answering or posting about the member's level. It's a Catch-22. Post just positive and the less experienced member doesn't learn or improve. Post too much technical detail and the member decides they're being impugned or belittled. And then want to leave so they don't have to be belittled anymore.

This topic and the original post that it was about are a perfect example. A member who likely never takes shots at game over 200 yards (probably rarely over 100 yards) posted a target shot with a rifle that pretty much resides in his gunsafe and is rarely used or sighted in. More technical members posted that the group isn't that great for longer distance shooting. Both are correct. But 1 felt maligned or belittled when he shouldn't. Any buck he shot at 100 yards or so would be quite dead and wouldn't know that his rifle didn't group into less than .5 MOA. The OP could have explained a bit more that he was only concerned about deer hunting back East and he rarely needs to shoot much past 100 yards. The more technical members responding could have pointed out that the rifle was fine for that kind of deer hunting (what the OP uses the rifle for) but wouldn't the the best rifle or caliber for long distance shooting at 1,000 yards or greater distance. In fairness, the topic wasn't about long distance shooting anyway but that's another issue.

So it's kind of you to vote Butch back on the island so to speak but I don't think that's an issue for Butch as he's pretty much a plank-owner anyway. At this point, it's strictly up to Butch. FWIW, I hope he comes back also.
I can agree with you on many things here but IMO, your 100% wrong on the reason the OP got upset
he CLAIMED a 1 inch group,
NOTHING about if ity was good enough for deer or just good enough period, he CLAIMED to have a 1 inch group on the target he posted
THEN when others(me included) pointed out using measurement HE PROVIDED, we showed him he was wrong on the group size, NO one belittled his shooting skills or said anything about him NOT being able to shoot far or what ever
we just pointed out his CLAIM of a 1 inch group was wrong
and that sent him on a anger rage wave he road right to the point of leaving the site!

This is BIG part of the problem on forums, folks claim things, then when called out, they get personal; and MAD, it has nothing to do with experience level of members or posters
if one CLAIMS something and shows a photo then added measurements for use to use to PROVE they are wrong
its not being an online bully, or belittling anyone!
its just folks SHOWING the claim is wrong and HOW we came up with it being false!

post go off topic ALL the time, and many times its due to folks NOT knowing what the OP was talking about in the first place, or someone else claiming something which was either wrong or false!

if ANYONE new or OLD< wants to CLAIM something is "X" they should be able to back it up!

if not,, they cannot get MAD when others can use HIS info , to prove there wrong (the proof HE provided in the first place!)
its nothing to do with experience level or how long they been a member on a site,
a false claim is a false claim be it a NEW member or an old experienced one!

we all make mistakes, its human nature, I am FAR from perfect!

, but don;t blame others when they show you , you were wrong! or run away MAD! when you made the false claim in the first place

IF OP was so sure of things WHY did he remove what he posted?? yet left other things
THEN stared this tread to TRY and show he was picked on or MAD, YET deleted all teh things that got this ball rolling!
IMO< honestly maybe this whole tread should be deleted as any one that reads it from the beginning cannot even GO see what the OP< claims got him t all worked up over due to
AGAIN??
HE DELAYED HIS CLAIMS AND PICTURE OF it along with rte measurements he claimed he used to get the size of the group??
thus trying to make others out to be BAD guys, and hiding what he claimed that they just respond to!
there was NO need for any of his HARD feeling IMO, or him trying to bash others for standing up for what they know was right!
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:10 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by mrbb View Post
I can agree with you on many things here but IMO, your 100% wrong on the reason the OP got upset
he CLAIMED a 1 inch group,
NOTHING about if ity was good enough for deer or just good enough period, he CLAIMED to have a 1 inch group on the target he posted
THEN when others(me included) pointed out using measurement HE PROVIDED, we showed him he was wrong on the group size, NO one belittled his shooting skills or said anything about him NOT being able to shoot far or what ever
we just pointed out his CLAIM of a 1 inch group was wrong
and that sent him on a anger rage wave he road right to the point of leaving the site!

This is BIG part of the problem on forums, folks claim things, then when called out, they get personal; and MAD, it has nothing to do with experience level of members or posters
if one CLAIMS something and shows a photo then added measurements for use to use to PROVE they are wrong
its not being an online bully, or belittling anyone!
its just folks SHOWING the claim is wrong and HOW we came up with it being false!

post go off topic ALL the time, and many times its due to folks NOT knowing what the OP was talking about in the first place, or someone else claiming something which was either wrong or false!

if ANYONE new or OLD< wants to CLAIM something is "X" they should be able to back it up!

if not,, they cannot get MAD when others can use HIS info , to prove there wrong (the proof HE provided in the first place!)
its nothing to do with experience level or how long they been a member on a site,
a false claim is a false claim be it a NEW member or an old experienced one!

we all make mistakes, its human nature, I am FAR from perfect!

, but don;t blame others when they show you , you were wrong! or run away MAD! when you made the false claim in the first place

IF OP was so sure of things WHY did he remove what he posted?? yet left other things
THEN stared this tread to TRY and show he was picked on or MAD, YET deleted all teh things that got this ball rolling!
IMO< honestly maybe this whole tread should be deleted as any one that reads it from the beginning cannot even GO see what the OP< claims got him t all worked up over due to
AGAIN??
HE DELAYED HIS CLAIMS AND PICTURE OF it along with rte measurements he claimed he used to get the size of the group??
thus trying to make others out to be BAD guys, and hiding what he claimed that they just respond to!
there was NO need for any of his HARD feeling IMO, or him trying to bash others for standing up for what they know was right!

This is the kind of BS why I rarely post anymore. It is a good example of why I dropped out of what was a very good muzzle loading forum.
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:13 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by ButchA View Post
Read my thread over on the Firearm section under Guns. What started out as a simple thread about target shooting with a .308 rifle and accuracy turned ugly (not just HNI but on other forums as well).

If there was a way to completely remove my entire username/account, I would do it myself and be done with this place... I'm taking a break from all the B.S.

hope to see you back

Dusty Rhoades
United States Coast Guard (retired)
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Old 10-19-2020, 06:36 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by dustyr View Post
This is the kind of BS why I rarely post anymore. It is a good example of why I dropped out of what was a very good muzzle loading forum.
so posting the truth bothers you??
and you wish to use tt as an example of what?? you having a lack of appreciation for honesty on a forum?
you'd rather read lies and believe them I guess!, over reading about someone posting something true!
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Old 10-19-2020, 12:01 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by mrbb View Post
I can agree with you on many things here but IMO, your 100% wrong on the reason the OP got upset
he CLAIMED a 1 inch group,
NOTHING about if ity was good enough for deer or just good enough period, he CLAIMED to have a 1 inch group on the target he posted
THEN when others(me included) pointed out using measurement HE PROVIDED, we showed him he was wrong on the group size, NO one belittled his shooting skills or said anything about him NOT being able to shoot far or what ever
we just pointed out his CLAIM of a 1 inch group was wrong
and that sent him on a anger rage wave he road right to the point of leaving the site!

This is BIG part of the problem on forums, folks claim things, then when called out, they get personal; and MAD, it has nothing to do with experience level of members or posters
if one CLAIMS something and shows a photo then added measurements for use to use to PROVE they are wrong
its not being an online bully, or belittling anyone!
its just folks SHOWING the claim is wrong and HOW we came up with it being false!

post go off topic ALL the time, and many times its due to folks NOT knowing what the OP was talking about in the first place, or someone else claiming something which was either wrong or false!

if ANYONE new or OLD< wants to CLAIM something is "X" they should be able to back it up!

if not,, they cannot get MAD when others can use HIS info , to prove there wrong (the proof HE provided in the first place!)
its nothing to do with experience level or how long they been a member on a site,
a false claim is a false claim be it a NEW member or an old experienced one!

we all make mistakes, its human nature, I am FAR from perfect!

, but don;t blame others when they show you , you were wrong! or run away MAD! when you made the false claim in the first place

IF OP was so sure of things WHY did he remove what he posted?? yet left other things
THEN stared this tread to TRY and show he was picked on or MAD, YET deleted all teh things that got this ball rolling!
IMO< honestly maybe this whole tread should be deleted as any one that reads it from the beginning cannot even GO see what the OP< claims got him t all worked up over due to
AGAIN??
HE DELAYED HIS CLAIMS AND PICTURE OF it along with rte measurements he claimed he used to get the size of the group??
thus trying to make others out to be BAD guys, and hiding what he claimed that they just respond to!
there was NO need for any of his HARD feeling IMO, or him trying to bash others for standing up for what they know was right!


Obviously I am not as invested in this topic as you are. FWIW, I was late to the party in the actual topic in the Gun forum (my first post was # 16). When I posted, Butch had removed his OP post, its' attached picture and his next 2 posts. What I saw group-wise was his target picture in post # 8. In that post, the target picture shows 2 groups--1 from a benchrest (shots 1 & 2) and the other from some kind of elbows supported position (shots 3 & 4). The benchrest position looked like it was about 1" give or take a little with a dime placed between the shot holes. The other group looked like it was about 2-2.5" (although it's hard to make a precise measurement estimate online).

So if all of your above quoted post is about Butch's OP post (# 1), I didn't see the photo and obviously cannot comment on it one way or the other. None of my comments were directed towards post # 1 as I obviously didn't see the attached photo. If your above post is in reference to Butch's post # 8 with its' attached photo, I still disagree. I also don't believe I am 100% wrong if we're discussing the photo in post # 8.

As for Butch taking his ball and going home, I have mixed opinions on that. I know there's a term for it on the internet but don't recall it off the top of my head. In some ways, it is somewhat similar to celebrities who vow to move out of the country if candidate X or Y is elected. OTOH, sometimes people just need a break from this place and others. When it's a break from work, we call it a vacation. When it's from HNI and it's voluntary on the member's part, it sometimes is like that vacation from work also. I guess we can disagree on what was Butch's specific motivation and thinking for leaving HNI on his own based on our interpretation of his posts. In reality, neither of us is a mind reader and it seems like a silly thing to debate.

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Old 10-19-2020, 01:15 PM
  #17  
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My only comments are : mrbb you proved your point. Being right was important to you but obviously not for everyone.
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Old 10-19-2020, 02:12 PM
  #18  
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You guys realize you're talking about different pictures and the original poster isn't gonna read this stuff anyways, right? Like how many eagles died in wind towers to provide enough electricity to power through both topics just to find out the rifle is average, the shooter prolly needs a little better trigger control and any deer would have been dead anyway. Just sayin...
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Old 10-19-2020, 02:59 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by elkman30 View Post
You guys realize you're talking about different pictures and the original poster isn't gonna read this stuff anyways, right? Like how many eagles died in wind towers to provide enough electricity to power through both topics just to find out the rifle is average, the shooter prolly needs a little better trigger control and any deer would have been dead anyway. Just sayin...
Some people are mentors and some nitpickers. I looked at his target and my first thought was what he could do to tighten it up some. I really didn't pay much attention to what he said.
He felt good about his shooting and wanted to share.
I've shared stuff before, mostly some things I learned the hard way. Others proceeded to tear into my suggestions. I say screw them, if it works for me it works, if it doesn't meet their expectations that is their problem not mine. The only time I get upset is when I'm gang tackled, when a crowd attacks. Hyenas upset me some.

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Old 10-19-2020, 05:27 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by CalHunter View Post


Obviously I am not as invested in this topic as you are. FWIW, I was late to the party in the actual topic in the Gun forum (my first post was # 16). When I posted, Butch had removed his OP post, its' attached picture and his next 2 posts. What I saw group-wise was his target picture in post # 8. In that post, the target picture shows 2 groups--1 from a benchrest (shots 1 & 2) and the other from some kind of elbows supported position (shots 3 & 4). The benchrest position looked like it was about 1" give or take a little with a dime placed between the shot holes. The other group looked like it was about 2-2.5" (although it's hard to make a precise measurement estimate online).

So if all of your above quoted post is about Butch's OP post (# 1), I didn't see the photo and obviously cannot comment on it one way or the other. None of my comments were directed towards post # 1 as I obviously didn't see the attached photo. If your above post is in reference to Butch's post # 8 with its' attached photo, I still disagree. I also don't believe I am 100% wrong if we're discussing the photo in post # 8.

As for Butch taking his ball and going home, I have mixed opinions on that. I know there's a term for it on the internet but don't recall it off the top of my head. In some ways, it is somewhat similar to celebrities who vow to move out of the country if candidate X or Y is elected. OTOH, sometimes people just need a break from this place and others. When it's a break from work, we call it a vacation. When it's from HNI and it's voluntary on the member's part, it sometimes is like that vacation from work also. I guess we can disagree on what was Butch's specific motivation and thinking for leaving HNI on his own based on our interpretation of his posts. In reality, neither of us is a mind reader and it seems like a silly thing to debate.
I didn;'t comment on his picture in the post your referring to#8, MINUS I stated a normal shooter posting a group fires all shots from same position and not from different ones and then claims it a group size, and DIDN"T even say OP did that, just stated he said he shot from different positions!
MOST all shooters know this, and when they TALK group size, its from either 3 or 5 shots in a row from ONE position!

ANY how
MY whole point was simple, the OP posted a picture CLAIMING how accurate his rifle and load was, and how it was a 1 inch group!
when it was clear to anyone with any experience, it was NOT a 1 inch group!

when another member called him on it, he got MAD, and , THEN he went on you give DETAILS of measurements of HIS target, HE gave the measurements, NOT anyone else but HIM!
then when I pointed out using HIS measurements, it was NOT a 1 inch group based on HIS info, and measurements
HE got even madder!

he then went on to delete his info and picture
and then cried about how folks here are mean and bashers and where SNIPERS and all that BS
NO one called his group was BAD, or his shooting skills, , or he was a BAD person or anything to make him MAD!(and even HE then claimed his magic LOAD he was so proud of, NOW wasn't a special load at all but just basic load), so another claim he changed and deleted!) JUST to try and make other look BAD and him,????

SO< to be honest here, all we did was point out his group was NOT what he claimed and backed it up using HIS provided info! and THAT was what pissed him off IMO< he got MAD we showed him he was wrong!
NO one did it in a mean way either, we just showed him, it was wrong and most of us even stated it was still good shooting, just wasn't a 1 inch group, NOTHING to get mad about! or want to leave a site, or, to come back and try and bash on those that seen thru his false claim!


HE then when on to start THIS tread, which again should be deleted maybe!
as he is pointing out he was treated poorly on other tread, but deleted the reasons we called him out, trying to make US look bad over , it was his OWN fault for posting what he did and claiming it to be something it wasn't
and I gather he KNOW"S this, and that is why he deleted it!
and why he DIDN"T delete the rest of them things he posted, like his name calling, (look at what he wrote on the target he left posted)
was his way of being a smart AZZ! IMO)
so, to be fair here, if he want's other to JUDGE , folks that supposedly PICKED ON HIM< he should have left ALL things there so others could make a honest judgement call and NOT deleted what HE claimed! and was called out on!
as NO one can tell what he may or may NOT have claimed when he deleted it!
making this whole tread worthless!
and anyone defending him, well, since they DON"T have the info he deleted,
makes it rather hard to say anyone did anything wrong, minus him, getting offended over things HE posted!
his OWN fault, NOT mine or others that called him out on his CLAIM!
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