NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Having primitive MZ before archery in Oct. for 3 days.....

9 day MZ/bow late season....

Now that it has been reported as legit information.

Good?Bad?Ugly?

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Had not heard it was finalized. Can you put up a copy of any releases you find? Thx

I know all my friends that are bow hunters are not happy.
What are the requirements for primitive going to be?

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Here is what I found elsewhere...I believe this is what you meant....

This is not official - as yet - it still needs the blessing of the DEC's lawyers, but here is what the Department is proposing for new hunting season regulations as of today 3/9/05.

* A 3 day primitive muzzleloader season beginning on Columbus Day. Only flintlock or sidelock weapons will be allowed. The season will be for antlerless deer only and the hunter must have a DMP or a DMAP. Black bears may be taken as well.

* Archery season opens the Saturday after Columbus Day and runs until the Saturday opener of gun season. No changes at all.

* Gun season opens the third Saturday in November and goes for 23 days.

* A 9 day muzzleloader/archery season opens on the close of gun season and any remaining tags may be used.

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

I believe this about the worst of all outcomes,(outside of no changes). Something is fishy here and I will place a large bet that in a very few years these rules,(primitive only) will be completely different.

A primitive season doesn't sound like it meets any of the goals the state had previously mentioned. Here they are...

Guiding Philosophies when considering season changes:
There are several important considerations that must serve as the guiding principles during any consideration of proposals for creating, changing, or modifying existing deer hunting opportunities:

Specifically:

Changes must provide reasonably equitable distribution of opportunity and access to the deer resource for all of the subgroups of hunters.
Changes should increase the ability to manage deer, more specifically to obtain needed antlerless harvests in areas of chronic overabundance by creating additional opportunities and fully using the flexibility inherent in the new hunting license structure.
All changes should focus on overall hunter satisfaction, specifically on changes which ultimately can influence hunter recruitment.
All changes and modifications should enhance overall recreational opportunity.

This means the state is likely to quickly start tinkering with the rules....

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

I think they took all the input from the public meetings and pretty much ignored it. And took the last weekend of the rut from archery. They haven't defined "primitive". This just opens the door to expand the early season to what they wanted to start. It also opens the door to other "special" implement seasons - pistol, crossbow, whatever. Why can't there be 2 seasons - bow and gun.

Disgusted in NY
Steve

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Steve....Looks like they have defined primitive....."Only flintlock or sidelock weapons"...how many people do they think are going to utilize this season?

My biggest problem with is clearly with the primitive season....It was supposed to expand opportunities for a reasonably large group of hunters...this clearly will not.

I personally was surprised that that the gun season never opened on that Saturday in the first place. However, I can understand why bowhunters feel it takes away from there season. At least in this case the general publics hunting opportunities are expanded.

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Not many - that is why they will expand it to include scopes and single shot rifles(inlines). Why is a seperate season needed for any gun? If we are going to split the seasons beyond bow and gun, where does it end? I hunt with a recurve or longbow. If a rifle (inline mz) needs a seperate season, can I have one too? How about pistol hunters?

Losing the best weekend of the rut - I can understand it to!

Which can be achieved without reducing opportunities for some or affecting the quality of their season. Keep all archery equipment in bow season - keep all guns in gun season.

Steve

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Jeff,

I realized it may seem I am argueing with you - I don't mean it that way. Just upset the DEC seems to have pretty much ignored the input from the public meetings and are looking to find a way around it.

Steve

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Steve, to the contrary for the most part you are agreeing with me. This is a bogus season that will not last in its current state.

You are also right in saying that the argument will now be made that perhaps there should be a longbow season, pistil season, etc..etc.etc.etc.....

Concerning the rut issue..I always found it unusual that New York gun Hunters were one of the few could never really take advantage of it...That should not be a bone of contention here though.

The fact is the state does not seem to be serving the publics interest...

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Looks like another year I won't buy a blackpowder licence unless they lower it to $5.This is a joke but what can we expect from this state?Hopefully I will get out for archery.Better yet,maybe I will be out of NY by hunting season and ina better state.

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Two new thoughts...

Now you get three days to hunt bear that won't cut into the regular deer season...

How much money is going to be made when the next guy invents a "sidelock modern muzzleloader" based off todays in-line concepts....

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

3 words - BUNCH OF CRAP

I have been a supporter and advocate for the DEC. That is up til now. They basically ignored much of the public input (at least big game hunters). what have they done, really?? As someone pointed out, they didn't accomplish anything that they set out to do. Oh, they have expanded ML opportunities - for a whopping 3 days, if you have a primative ML. Big whoop. Oh, and an astonishing 2 extra days in the late ML season. Wow, talk about more opportunities! I am overwhelmed by their charity. I wish I could trade in my ML lifetime license. This is BS. Must be the DEC thought it is more prudent to listen to the small game hunters and snowmobilers than the hunters that support thier programs. definite A for effort on this one boys (actually the "A" stands for something else)

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Not the best news,but could have been worse!3 days starting Oct.14 is better than the whole 3rd week of Oct.Primative means less pressure because of less hunters going that route.As far as the Sat. opener,I would rather have it on Mon,but for years I saw the poor guy low on the totem pole miss opening day because everyone else put in for that week for their vaction.Also might help getting the youth infussed back into the sport.As far as missing the "best week of the rut" for archery,I rarely found that week to be the best,heck last year where I hunted the best activity occured the 3rd and 4th week of Oct.I think the Dec did listen, if infact these are the new regulations.They knew we didn't want the 3rd week muzzleloader season,I think they tried to compomise the best way they could with out totally scraping" the "early" muzzloader season.

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

In my opinion there is no compromise, but a total shift in what they wanted to accomplish. I think most everybody in the long run gets the screws put to them. let's see: ML hunters don't get equity (now most have 9 days - a few will get 12 - instead of 7 before). Bow hunters lose a prime weekend of hunting and get no early opportunity. Looks like the reg season hunters get the winner.

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

jcchartboy,

Please post where you got this info.
Everybody is upset at this but nowhere can I find this info.
To me this idea is BS but you guys are arguing over a subject that is hear say so lets get some links or something to show what you are saying.

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Fastfire..You must not have looked very hard....all I can say is Google..

http://www.thedailystar.com/sports/2.../18/spout.html

http://167.206.135.118/cgi-bin/ultim...c&f=1&t=008388

http://members.boardhost.com/tmmh/msg/120953.html


THE DAILY STAR......
03/18/05

Proposals could shake up deer hunting

OUTDOORS COLUMN

After 20 public meetings and a multitude of e-mails, phone calls and petitions, DEC has come up with a new proposal for next year’s deer season. The following changes have been submitted for the final rule-making process.


Instead of a muzzle-loading season during the middle of archery season, as previously suggested, the proposal is for a primitive, muzzle-loading, anterless-only deer season Oct. 10-12. Hunting implements will be determined but probably be limited to flint locks or side locks without scopes.


No in-line muzzleloaders will be allowed. This will be implemented with the Deer Management Permits, so I’m not sure how it will actually work.


The Southern Zone Archery Season will start three days after that on Saturday, Oct. 15, and run through Nov. 18. Regular Firearms SeAdvertisement



ason will start Nov. 19 (the third Saturday of the month) and run until Dec. 11. The Late Archery and Muzzleloader Seasons will run Dec. 12-20.

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

I would also like to add that my original post clearly states I did not know of these changes. Phade, being in a good position to watch these changes, started the topic. I was simlply asking if these are the rules he meant.
After researching a little more I know believe these are in fact the current proposals.

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

I do not like the new proposal. Please email, write and call the DEC and your legistlators. Send your emails to [email protected]

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

jcchartboy,

Thank you for the links.

As for goggle I won't use it!!!!!!!
Tried it once loaded my PC full of ad ware(spy ware).
Don't believe me if you don't have a spy ware removal program
get one clean your PC then go do a goggle & then ck for spy ware.
They load spy ware for most of their advertisers and do it in one search!!

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Fastfire ...your welcome. Second, I don't want to get off topic here but I am pretty computer proficient. I do not believe google was the source of your spyware. I run both spybot and adaware as spy protection and have not seen google as a source of infections. I also use google's tool bar. That actually has a pop up blocker. It prevents almost all unwanted popups, and their associated spyware.

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

I am not happy with the change if it is finalized. Like others stated it wasnt the direction muzzleloader hunters wanted to go or bow hunters. DEC in this state is messed up. I pay money as a hunter and snowmobiler to pay there salaries... sometimes i think this state including DEC works against people like us then with us to better what we do. DEC puts more time and effort into checking regs and insurance on snowmobiles then they do the poachers. I know one thing and that is I thank mothernature and the farmers of this state for the wildlife it provides not DEC or politicians of this state and the way they manage it!

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

The only thing i like about it is the saturday opeaners.

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Notice I said changed proposals...:D Not official season dates....:D

Give them a chance to finalize everything before we start saying they failed everyone...

And Steve...I know unless you get YOUR way, it'll still make you unhappy no matter what;), but I guess we are both like that sometimes!

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Only cause my way is the right one.;)

Steve

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Does anyone know how long it would take to make these rules official, assuming there were no changes?

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

Oh well,I will just use my muzzleloader during the regular season like I did last year.I'm not going to buy the extra license for the short amount of time we get with it.At least we can use it during firearms season.This state is all about getting money and not providing for the hunter.

RE: NY'ers...What you think about the changed deer proposals?
 

I am surprised that the DEC proposed an early MZ in spite of the significant opposition. Most of the "state of the herd" meetings in Feb were over capacity - stuffed with bowhunters who were quite vocal in their opposition to any kind of an early MZ season.

Seems pretty bold to listen to opinion, then reject it.