PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

First trip back to the cabin since buck season.
We went for a walk after breakfast, saw 3 deer - all were dead.
2 buck - 1 was not even legal
1 doe
Saw NO fresh crap.
Saw NO fresh tracks.
Saw NO fresh sign at all.

Saw NO live mammals at all.
Heard 3 grouse takeing off.

Next year is really going to suck !!!

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

What did your camp shoot this year?

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Huh..........unusual. All of the property I hunt (huntington and Bradford counties) are absolutely crawling with deer.

My father and I decided to have some habitat improvement done on the 100 acres we have in Bradford County. We brought in a bioligist and had them recommend some things, and the #1 thing they said was selective logging. We paid him a tiny amount of money to select which pieces of timber should be cut and which should be left and they just finished the cutting 2 weeks ago. Already, my father (who lives there) says that the deer are congregating on his property. I am going down next weekend to put up my new Leaf River camera and my father is going to tend it for me and email pics. I will post some pics when we start to get them.

This is a property that has approximately 6-8 does per year harvested every year and only 3 1/2 year mature bucks for approx 6 years now, and the hunting has never been this good.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Rick james You are way ahead of most on this.Proper land management will allow you to have more & better deer hunting than people that don't remove the large saw logs ,and let sun lite reach the ground .Pruning apple trees this time of year will pay off in the fall also . Good luck & post some pics.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Thanks for the compliments. I think the problem with a lot of what is perceived of PA hunting is that #1, they don't have access to private land or their own land, and #2, those that do don't do habitat improvement as well as AR's and herd reduction. AR's is only a small part of having more and better deer, and without the habitat improvement it doesn't do much. I do feel for the guys that have to hunt public property though, I am fortunate to have the property access that I do and that is why I am sure that I approve of the management changes in PA. If I was forced to hunt public property that I didn't have the option of improving the habitat on I am sure I would be singing a different tune.

We don't even plant food plots down there. Maybe this spring we will though, dad has a tractor and disc so it wouldn't be difficult.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

It goes to show if you put a little time,money, and effort into improving your hunting ground. You can make a big difference. I put out food plots, minerals, trim brush,and lots of other things to help the land and wildlife. Now I know everyone doesnt have their own land. But if you ask and put an effort into finding some land. You to could be benefiting from your efforts. I allow people to hunt my land under one condition. When they stop to ask me if they can hunt 2 days before the season. I will say no. But if someone stops and asks me early in the spring to hunt and offers me some help with improving the hunting grounds. I will say YES because these are the people that are trying to make a difference. These are the people that are trying to improve the deer herd. These are the people that are trying to improve their hunting. My favorite excuse is I dont want to pay to improve hunting. But think about this... How much is a round of golf? How much is Hersheypark? How much is a MLB game? Hunting is just another form of recreation or what ever you want to call it. No matter what you choose to do it will cost you money. And the way I look at it, it doesnt cost alot of money to make a difference. What it does take alot of is time and effort! So everyone out there who are having successful seasons because of your efforts. You truly deserve it! And the people that are upset because of private land. Think for a minute. The efforts put out by all the people that improve their land are also helping the people that dont give a damn until 2 days before the season. This is one way of improving deer hunting in PA! It all starts with the hunter itself not the PGC, foresters, dcnr or any other group. So instead of complaining of what should be done in PA to fix the deer problem. Try to make a difference where you hunt and maybe the pieces will fall into place. It sure did where I hunt. Good luck!

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

AMEN Rick James and BullMoose!!!!!!!!!! I have been singing that tune for a while.But the problem is that some people are stuck in the stone ages and refuse to pay any attention to QDM. They just want 200 deer per mile. so they can shoot the first thing brown that comes into their sights.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

What a truthful mouthful, Oh for sure plant them plots and you will have a haven for huntin. I to feel for the public land hunter. But do know private land owners that are to cheap to improve their land or hunters that make a choice to spend their money on toys that are not even hunting related rather then buy land or lease a farm.. Thats their fault and have no reason to complain.We have the choice to be either 100% hunter or a woods playboy.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

You can plant plots till the cows come home but if the surrounding properties allow for the deer slaughters those plots won't have anything to feed.
Some of you guys are really sheltered and don't have a clue.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Germain you are wrong. If you plant those plots those deer will be on your property with the plots and not on the adjoining property where the slaughter will take place. Another sugestion to you rick james would be to have just one area on your property if it is big enough that you do not hunt at all, so the deer have a safe haven to go to when pressure gets hard IF your property gets hunted hard. A friend of mine does this and it works out very well. But they have a large section of property. They have taken some of the largest deer I have ever seen taken in Central Pennsylvania.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

My property borders public landand lots of it! I do have a clue! Thats why I am getting together and have been meeting with the people that hunt in my area even the people that hunt public land. Instead of sitting here thinking of reasons why it isnt going to work. I think of ways on how to make it work. To make something work you got to come up with a plan. Do you think the New England Patriots sat and cried in the locker room about plays that didnt work. No they probably looked at the positive things and built from that. Thats why they are a great team. Thats why PA hunters have to work together to become 1 team.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

I agree to a small degree, however we have had very good success on only 100 acres with NO food plots. We still see plenty of deer every day we hunt, and take on average 1x 3 1/2 year buck every year sometimes 2 or 3. We do limit the amount of hunters on the property though and try to keep it to 3 to 4 hunters total per day at most.

All of the neighbors around our place slaughter anything legal and a lot of stuff not legal. We have tried to talk to them about doing some selective logging however they weren't interested (I don't understand why). The money we made from the logging pays for all of the food plots and the fame cams and LOTS more..........we were surprised at why more people don't do this to their property.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Rick said what does your property that you hunt and manage have to do with seig's thread? With only harvesting 6-8 doe's per year and only bucks 3.5 years of age or older have to do with wether or not deer hunting will continue to get worse in PA.? Just because HR. hasnt affected your property or area yet doesnt mean it isnt going to in the very near future,
Do you support the PGC.'s, DCNR's, Audobon Society's deer management plan?

But to answer Seig's question, Yes hunting will continue to get worse, and when we cut the herd in half, we will also have to reduce our seasons, bag limits, etc. Pike

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Already done. We have 5 stands on 100 acres, and in the middle is a cedar swamp that you can't see 10 yards in front of you. No one ever goes in there and it is made clear to everyone that hunts that they are not to go in there. That is exactly why we do this. ;)

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

My responses purpose is to show that while some areas have been affected within the state, many areas have not been. The areas I hunt have done nothing but improve.

I don't support everything that PGC has done. I do think there are several WMU's that are mismanaged and have had too many does taken. I do think that they should have supported their changes with a tremendous amount of habitat improvement as well. I think PGC has taken an unbalanced approach to the management with only implementing the HR and AR. I do think that AR is great, and I don't have any issues with that. I do also think the HR should have been better managed in a lot of WMU's.

All I am saying is that we have done our own thing while following the laws we are all bound to and experienced some great hunting, the hunting has actually gotten better over the last 6 years not worse. Before this no one ever shot deer older than 2 1/2 years on this property or the property I hunt in Huntington County.

I also lived in York County for 5 years, and only moved up north a little less than a year ago. I know a lot of places there are overhunted, however there is some great hunting in and around there also. Most of the places I used to hunt up until the 04 season in York County were public land too.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

If you only have 100 acres you have little if any control of the herd in that area. You claim you only harvest 3.5 buck, which means you have only harvested 1 or 2 buck over the last six years ,because 3.5 buck are relatively rare in PA.

You claim to harvest 6-8 doe /yr. off 100 acres. Using the average of 7 doe/yr., your harvest rate equals 45 DPSM. the harvest rate for 3b,which includes the southern potion of Braford Co. was 2.9 DPSM. So either you are running a 100 acre deer farm or you have a vivid imagination.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Rick, Like you I have great hunting, and yes there are still some good places to hunt in York co. (which I dont need to hunt) but just because our current plan doesnt currently affect you or I doesnt mean that we should turn our backs on the majority of hunter's in PA. York Co's goal is 5 deer per sqaure mile, how may more year's of HR. is it going to take turn the places in York co. you speak of into poor hunting? PIke

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Alright, I guess you know what is going on with our property better than I do. Congrats to you.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Your Dad runs a deer farm in Bradford Co. ,so why would you hunt in Huntingdon Co?

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Because I used to lived in Huntington County for about 3 years and I have a lot of good friends and family there with some great land. Hunting is as much about the experience with friends and family for me as it is actually shooting and seeing deer. I usually archery hunt Bradford county 5-10 days per year and then spend the opening week (or at least several days of it) of rifle in Huntington County. And my father doesn't own a deer farm *******, we simply have a nice piece of land that produces quality deer in respectable numbers when compared to the rest of the state of PA. We have worked hard for that and we BOTH pay the taxes on it, and we BOTH inherited it, he is retired and doesn't have to work anymore these days so he lives there.

With all that said, I am sorry that you don't seem to have good hunting in your area and that is why in the post I entered above I mentioned that I know and recognize that the rest of the state isn't this fortunate to have good hunting. I know that HR has drastically affected a lot of the state's WMU's and hunters in negative ways. I wish everyone could have a good spot but that is not possible these days in PA. I simply entered my initial post to let people know that it wasn't the entire state that was horrible hunting some of it is still very good. It is much of the state though and it is unfortunate.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

If you guys have 100 acres with surrounding land open to the slaughter and you still have a decent amount of deer you must also have plenty of cover.It's still hard to keep a decent herd under those conditions if the land around you is indeed open to hunting.Deer have a home range bigger then 100 acres.
Now let's talk about the poor folks stuck on public land.There are now areas void of deer in the PA mountains.And it will only get worse.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Germain I will agree with you that some mountain land is poor hunting. I know the Blue Mountain is poor the areas I have been in. Absolutely no cover! But I know in other parts there is some good mountain land. I have good deer hunting on our land. But I do hunt public land up in northern PA and we have plenty of luck.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

The man never said he was shooting a3.5 every year did he?

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Ddear, Some people in PA choose to harvest only 3.5 year old buck and older. I am one that tries to harvest that trophy. I dont expect to shoot a buck every year anymore. In 2002 I took a 225 lb 10 point in PA. Since then I chose to chase the older bucks. This year I had pictures of 6 different 3.5 year old bucks. I didnt get a chance at any of them but 4 were taken in my area. I know this post has nothing to do with the topic. But I had to stand up for the people that choose to take 3.5 and older bucks since you were saying nobody in PA does it.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Our camp hasn't gotten a buck in 2 years now.
We hunt the Army Corp. land around Raystown Lake in Huntingdon county.
We have 11 - 12 guys every year.
We believe what our eyes show us.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

As these guys have said, I do not and never claimed to shoot 3.5 year old bucks in PA every year. I have actually only taken 2 PA bucks in the last 6 years. There is an average of 1-3 taken off the property every year though, I am not BS'ing you on this.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

How many deer did you guys kill per year before AR in that area? Are you guys seeing yearling bucks? Are you shooting does?

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Hey sieg,Isn't that the area where they just did the high tech count and estimated the herd at 60 DPSM?

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

The spot I hunt in Huntington County is less than 10 miles from there (Mapleton Depot), and while the hunting is pretty good, it isn't anywhere near 60 dpsm. It is probably 25-30 at most. That info would be a load of crap in my opinion. We do see a lot of deer down there though and average 2-4 AR legal bucks off 140 acres with one on average in the 3 1/2+ year old range, but definately not 60 dpsm.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

We have been there since 1982
Between those 11-12 guys we have taken 33 buck since 1982
Buck have ranged from a spike to several monsters on the cabin walls
We do not doe hunt

Yes this is the area that the Army Corp of Engineers said has an average of 50 deer per sq. mile
The article also said this is an average, some areas have 80 and some have hardly any.
We know which area our camp is in.
I have e-mailed the Army Corp and asked them if they are going to tell the hunters where these areas of high deer numbers are.
I think everybody knows where those areas are - Parks, Campgrounds, other areas that are not open to hunting.
I know several camps around this lake, both sides of the lake, and they all say the samething. "It's getting real bad"

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Something else I forgot t tell you that we saw on our walk Saturday.

Acorns and beachnuts everywhere.

Nothing there to eat them- no deer, no turkey either.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Thanks for the info Rick and seig.I know a fellow who has a camp near the lake and there's a combo of parks,resorts,private land,etc.I could have sworn the DCNR said state forest land only.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

That was my original response to RJ. I didn't put him don't ,I simply raised questions about his harvest data. Very few if any hunters in PA were holding out for 3.5 buck six years ago and we still have very few 3.5 buck today. With only 100 acres it is simply impossible to mange for 3.5 buck and that is what he implied.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

Sieg3006,

I hunt Raystown lake every year and i also believe that the 60 dpsm is probably a little high. But then again, i see alot of deer out there. Earlier this year in the early muzzleloader season i saw 7 bucks in one day, nothing real big but i think thats still good.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

germain, I cant afford to hunt over there, last time I was over there your kids stole my windsheild wipers and hubcaps. :D

Bawana, If I called you Dale SR. that would be a compliment. ;) Pike

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

I agree that 100 acres is definitly not enough to control a deer heard in your area. Perfect example: The family property I hunt is almost 600 acres. This property is surounded by thousands of acres of Rockview Corrections ground. About 10 years ago, we select cut about half our property to improve habitat. Also, being that my uncle is rather wealthy to say the least, he spends between 8-10 grand a year on seed and food plots. Needless to say, we have a lot of food all year for the deer. But, a lot of the bucks and deer for the matter make daily trips on and off our property from Rockviews ground. For one reason or another, the like that ground across the line, especially for bedding. We manage our property and other than the couple kids the hunt with us, we only try to take decent 8 points. The last few years, we have killed on average of about 14 or so decent 8 points, a scrub rack or two and usually one or exceptional animals in the 140 class or better. I attribute this only to use being surounded by no hunting ground of Rockview mostly. Without it there, 600 acres would be hard pressed to have the success we have IMO.

Another point I would like to make. We hunt and harvest most of the bucks during the rut. These bucks are roaming, sometimes miles in search of does. Sure the does will mostly be concentrated around food and bedding for the most part, but once the rut kicks into high gear, who knows were they will turn up.

lmao
 

i have about 500 acre i hunt on on about
410 is a farmer who plants pleaNTLY and doooent hunt it i got about 80 and there is
a 10 acre pie shape that comes up between us
that 10 acre is what the deer follow its a funnel
last year seen many deer no big bucks a 7
and about 25 doe this year it took me a week
to see 1 deer this is northern bradford co
so i say it is getting worse
and just to say there is about 4 ppl that
hunt that property

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

You've hit the nail on the head. If people would understand that trees are a renewable product that needs to be managed and that doing so helps ALL WILDLIFE then we wouldn't be in the predicament that we are with the deer herd. Clearcutting, selective cutting, etc., does attract many forms of wildlife. Not only for food, but for bedding and escape. Yes, it is somewhat ugly to the eye. The city slicker would look at a clearcut and say "what are we doing to the forest." The animals would respond , thank you, you've give me a haven for food , shelter, and easy access to escape predators. Good luck this season, you'll find over the years that by managing your land while other property around you do not that your property will be a magnet for deer, roughed grouse, turkey and anything else that lives in the woods.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

I definately understand that 100 acres is not enough to effectively manage all of the buck population that crosses our land from time to time. What we have done however seems to be working, although not to the degree that it would if we had 1000 acres managed this way. This is why we did the logging this year, to make the small patch we have even better. I don't know what to say to ddear when he claims that we are not shooting only 3 1/2 year bucks, and that we don't kill them consistently every year, that truly is all we kill other than does except for one small 5 point I shot in 2000 that showed up with a blown off leg, and it has been 6 seasons now that we have done it. We collectively have killed at least one 3 1/2 year buck per year this way although I have personally only taken one myself. We had one year that we killed 3 (2002), that was the year I killed my buck down there that was a 115" class 8 point.

Our land is a funnel that includes a cedar swamp, apple orchard, and heavy bedding cover between all the major farms and crop areas that surround it. It also has a bit of open mature hardwoods around it as well to the south. The deer consistently use our property as cover for moving from place to place during the day and for bedding. I wish I had pics of all the bucks taken, however I don't because I am not always down there when they actually kill bucks since I only archery hunt it and sometimes manage to get in the second weekend of rifle season.

RE: PA. Deer Hunting will only get worse
 

So far in this thread, we have learned the following:

-There is no fresh deer crap in PA
-There are no fresh deer tracks in PA
-There are only 3 grouse in PA
-There are no live mammals in PA
-There are deer left and some good bucks
-Deer management means more than AR and HR
-Selective logging is good for deer
-Deer plots don't help anything if your neighbors slaughter everything
-A safe haven is good to have on your property
-The New England Patriots didn't sit and cry in the superbowl
-My property doesn't have anything to do with Sieg's thread
-I don't have any control over the deer population since I only have 100 acres
-Hunters harvest 1x 3 1/2 year buck a year off my property per year on average
-Hunters have only harvested 1 or 2 bucks in 6 years off my farm and shoot bucks younger than 3 1/2 year bucks
-I own a deer farm
-ddear knows my property better than I do and what is taken off it every year
-Anytime someone claims they are only harvesting 3 1/2 year buck in PA, they are liars
-Raystown lake has 60 deer per square mile
-Raystown lake has no deer at all
-Rick James is directly responsible for the dinasaurs dissapearing
-jpike and ddear can't track a hippo in a snowstorm
-bawana jim can track a hippo in a snowstorm
-bawana jim is the dale jr. of hunting
-bawana jim is the gordon of hunting
-jpike hates gordon
-Rick James is a liar because he claimed to only shoot 3 1/2 year bucks, that is impossible in PA
-germain hates gordon too
-gordon sucks
-Matt Kenseth won his title fair and square

I guess you learn something new every day. ROFL.......:D:D