Re-read my post....see the word private clubs? I was specifically speaking about land ownership, not clubs alone.

I should hope that they get a better chance at harvesting a large buck, because they paid for the land, and manage it accordingly to grow larger racks. That is like saying since I can afford a car, and pay for gas....that I have to limit my driving because someone else can't afford a car....

Once again AR does not equal QDM..... only a facet of it.

And those of you who think the mature and dominant buck breed the most deer, you are wrong...it is not the young bucks either, but rather the ones in between, mature bucks but often not the dominant one. Alscheimer, and D&DH have presented lots of evidence to prove this. If I remember correctly, the dominant bucks only breed about 10-30% of the does, while the other mature bucks often account for 60%.

One of the D&DH articles about a year or so ago had this evidence and more with Alscheimer's works too.

Just a thought... The average age of an American is older than the average age of a Chinese citizen. Do the Chinese therefore produce better/healthier offspring than we do?

Apparently they do, since in certain areas, they are limited to one child.....

This is just an anecdote and not based in science but once while spotlighting I watched a 4 point mount a doe while 2 beauty 8 points were sparing within 20 yards of the happy couple. Probably a rare instance but it did happen.

Happens more than you think Sylvan.... Even the two legged does suffer from that time to time....

That's it Phade, you brilliantly came up with the answer. We will institue birth control for deer. The anti's were right all along... LOL

Normally, I'd laugh at that....but there is serious research going on for deer birth control. I believe the Enviornmental school here in NY has a grant on it.....

First I'd like to introduce myself. I have hunted the Adirondacks for almost 18 years. During this time I have hunted with the bow as well as with the shotgun and rifle. On average I spend 1000 hours in the woods every fall. Although all of this time has not been exclusively in the Adirondacks. I'd like to leave it for now that I have hunted a variety of places...all within NY. As you may see, I have been a member here for a while. Honestly that means nothing. Time does not make you "holier than thou!" in a forum. I do have to say that I have not even been a "looker" here during any of this time. Shame on me! Especially for not even saying hello once and a while.
I do have a little knowledge on AR and I'm a huge fan of it.

I have seen every arguement against it as well as ever one for it.
As far as strenghtening the deer herd. It most certainly does. The question many miss is what does "strengthening" the deer herd mean?

I work for a landowner that owns over 5900 acres in the Adirondacks.
AR is all about numbers and how those numbers affect the deer herd.
When talking about AR we are usually talking about bucks but does play a key role here as well.

Have you ever had the chance to watch a buck breed a doe? Have you ever had a chance to watch a yearling breed a doe?
Do you know how many estrus cycles the average doe goes through in your immediate area? or even the areas thatt you have hunted throughout your hunting life?
Every area is a little different than another as far as the buck populatin is concernted. Some areas have a great genetic background or history while others have poor genetics county wide.
Overall AR will help NY's herd. On the local level it may not seem too beneficial.
Before you go off crazy at me, answer this. What are the consequences of a yearling buck entering the breeding population?
How does it affect "him" ?
How does it affect the rut?
How does it affect the genetic quality of the deer in question?
These answers can be long.....but think, if you really haven't already, about nutrition, genetic diversity, as well as the overall sceme of the rut and the consequences to a drawn out rut.

I am by far no expert...wait a minute, I do get paid...so maybe I am of some sorts....LOL. We need to look at what is best for the herd and not, what is best for "ME" We could have thousands of more "monsters" running around....wouldn't you like to be one of the ones that help to "hook our youth?" Let's face it....after looking at all the TV shows, wouldn't you rather hunt for an 8 pt'er than a 4? Especially knowing that the 4 will be the same size if not even bigger the next year?
I am by far not a "horn hunter" Every hunt is special to me. I keep a of very deer I harvest. Please notice I said harvest and not shoot. I take great pride in the deer that I am allowed to hunt. Every hunt is special.
The first buck I shot in the Adirondacks was a spike horn, 18 years ago. I have him mounted on my wall. I remember that day as if it were yesterday. Do I wish it were bigger? Never have I once. Would I like to see more 3 and 4 year olds running around? Absolutely!
I'm not trying to make you want AR in NY. No matter what information is presented to an individual, some will never change their minds. Isn;t free thought a great thing? Hopefull we can work through some of the bugs and misconceptions about AR and what it may not be all about!
BTW: If you are the average hunter of NY, you will see AR by the time you reach your "free license" age. Like it or not.........

DJH

Very good question so what do YOU mean when you say that it strengthens the herd? You didn't say in your post.
My sentiments exactly. Only difference is that I think those who are for AR are the ones that are doing the "what is best for ME" thing. What they are interested in pure and simple is a better chance to kill a big buck. All this baloney about a helthier herd is just a cover.
The answer to all of this is all over our state right now. We have a healthy strong herd of nearly 1 million.
See what I mean? Big bucks is the priority and the TV shows are a perfect example of how we are teaching our kids that that's all that matters.
You are probably right. I realize that I am in the minority when it comes to AR. Sadly I believe that the majority of hunters are being lured by the promise of it being much easier to kill a monster and that will make their hunting experience much more satisfying. Well I believe it's a false promise and one that in the long run is detrimental to a sport that I have loved all my life.

BTW, welcome Summerflower! Though I may disagree with you I do respect your opinions. We all have a common bond here and that is the love of hunting!