QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Hello everyone,
Are you familiar with qdm y or n?
Do you support QDM?
Your age

I am just running a poll to see how accurate my thoughts are.
I feel 35 years and younger tend to favor it
35-50 year olds are spilt
50-above are against
thanks for doing this

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Im for a deer ratio of 1 to 1 Not one buck. to one doe though in a sguare mile. More like 15 nuck to 15 doe in a square mile. And then give them a food feast of crops. You dont have to kill all the does to get a 1 on 1 ratio.Just bring up the buck herd to meet the doe pops. then keep them at a level that is comfortable.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Yes I favor QDM age 40

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Do you mean QDM, as presently practiced in PA? Hell no! Age 50+.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Cardeer said it right.Let's look at a ranch in Texas practicing QDM.They strive for a ratio of 1-1 but have say 50 doe to 50 buck on a 600 acre private ranch.Where as the idea of QDM on public ground in PA has say 10 deer on an entire gamelands and in most cases that's more then normal.QDM does not work on public ground.If the private land isn't fenced in it better have at least 1,000 posted acres.I'm starting to see more and more fences going up in PA for canned hunts.
Congrats PGC.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

In Texas people dont shoot BUTTON BUCKS thats why QDM works. You can see more deer because there are more buck alive which means you can have more doe.

I agree with you cardeer. But thats what Pa people dont get. They need to shoot that button buck. You leave him go thats 1 less doe that needs to be shot. I wish PA would make it you kill a button buck thats your buck. I know what people would say though. They will be left lay to decay. They are right but thats where we need to look at how greedy hunters are and not how the PGC manages the game. Turn in the outlaws!

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

I hate to say it bull but I don't see PA hunters changing.If there was one deer left in this state there would be 250,000 hunters trying to kill it.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Favor it

Age 48

But I recognize that not all aspects of QDM are feasible in all parts of PA.

We can expect QDM to work 100% in all areas but we can make every area way better than it has been.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

I am for sustaining a healthy herd of deer on the land it can support. If there are places in PA that can't support the deer, improve the habitat, don't eradicate the deer.


I am 30.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

No body in there right mind would be for a 1 to 1 B/D ration. When the B/D ration reaches 1/1.2 ish the bucks start getting overly aggression and will fight to the death for breeding rights.

I dont think that true QDM is going to be possible on such a large scale as PA, however this doent mean that steps cant be taken to improve the overall health of the herd ands its habitat.

QDM, bring it on.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

That is the exact opposite of what Dr Alt told us to do. He emphasized not shooting the button bucks. If people want QDM like in Texas, go hunt there. Pennsylvania is not Texas.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

EXACTLY!!! That is what I stated above.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

QDM yes age 56. QDM has as much to do with habitat improvemet as to getting the buck/ doe ratio in check. It is a total package designed to provide a good mix and supply the proper number of carrying capacity that the land will support. In my opinion you want the dominant bucks to do all the breeding. In VT we have way too many doe and the big bucks are far and few between and can't service all the does. Getting too much breeding from inferior bucks and the gene pool has fallen off.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Champlain Islander wrote: Then why are you for a system of management that says its fine to shoot the mature bucks you want to do all the breeding but protects the young bucks that you dont' want to breed. Dead animals don't breed!

Don't forget an 18 month old buck passes on the same genes at 18 months as he does at 5 1/2 years. It's a fallacy to say that young bucks don't pass on good genes. over 60 years of an expanding healthy whitetail heard attest to it.

I'm for QDM aspects relating to nutrition, I'm agains QDM for the purpose of managing for more mature bucks. Let's call it what it is and thats trophy management.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Age 25 - Support QDM

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Familiar Yes
Support Yes
Practice Yes
Age 31

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

QDM= Quality Deer Management
I would support a QDM if it was done properly, but the way Pennsylvania is going about it by allowing entirely too many does killed in areas where the does DON'T need to be thinned out. NO!
Same thing is happening in West Virginia, their DNR is trying to tell them that their doe population has reached it's peak and more doesw need to be harvested. Alot of hunters in both states don't buy this crap about x-amount of deer in x-amount of acres, it's just a guesstimate that is not even close to the actual count. I agree that in some/certain counties the does need to be thinned down but mostly it has been done wrong by both Pennsylvania and West Virginia's management officials.
I'm 43 years old and have seen a drastic decline more so in West Virginia in the last 3 years due to the slaughtering of does and a not yet imposed antler restriction (AR). In Pennsylvania I have seen more bucks than before due to the AR's. I do see alot of deer due to the fact I am hunting in Southeastern PA unlike the scarcity of deer in the north.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

People are getting QDM and what the PGC is doing mixed up. Yes its similar and will help QDM if done right. The difference is you will never see a button buck shot on my property unless it is a youths first deer. You also won't see a buck be shot just because it has 3 points to one side on my land. It has to be a QUALITY BUCK. What the PGC is trying to do is in the right direction. Nobody said they would get it right there first try.
I agree somethings need to be changed. But I am not going to bash the PGC because they are trying to make PA hunting better.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Hummm - 'Shoot a Button Buck' - Never Heard of such QDM practice anywhere??

Maybe they shoot BB in Iraq?? Am I misreading something here?????

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

25 hate it
bullmoose i wish you could put
your buck tag on a button buck
for i am not a trophy hunter
just a deer hunter i dont care
to have big buck in pa and i
dont need to shoot one to prove
i am a man i would rather meat
in the freezer than horns on the wall.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Yes if done right, start with food first, some clear cuts,food plots, select cuts, cull spikes and some doe you don't start with killing all the big bucks first. It will never fly in Pa.

But what do I know I am 59. :(

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

lost horn I will explain it a little. Spike bucks isn't all the product of bad genes. Very few result from bad genes. They result from the following. When your buck to doe ratio is out of whack such as in PA. You will see more young spikes because the does get bred later then they should. The result is later births which effects antler growth. Because that deer is eating to catch up on its body weight instead of antler growth. The button buck which was born in the spring instead of late summer will mantain a healthy body weight for winter. When spring arrives his nutrition will be going into his antlers because his body weight is healthy. To prove this why do 97% of 4.5 year old bucks score 140 P&Y. Genetics and nutrition are factors but most of it comes from age. ONCE A SPIKE BUCK ALWAYS A SPIKE BUCK isnt true.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

For all those people that are confused. I am saying I think if you shoot a button buck you should have to use your buck tag. That way people would start to get that brown its down theory out of their heads. And look before they shoot which would cut down on button bucks being shot.
Comprende

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Bowhunt 05
If your a meat hunter that is fine. Here is a tip for helping you get more meat. By shooting a mature deer you will get 30%-40% more meat. Just food for thought.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Do you know what the B/D ratio was before AR and do you know what the B/D ratio is now? Did you happen to see the results of the fawn conception study?

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

1. YES

2. Yes

3. 40

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Sylvan you do make a valid point about trophy management. That is what is nice about these forums it lets you hear many different sides of an issue. My point wasn't that all the dominant bucks would be harvested. Unless you are hunting behind a high fence, a majority of the dominant bucks will probably survive. They got to be old by being cautious. I believe natures plan is to allow most of the breeding to be done by mature animals with good genes. The doe will stand for the largest and most impressive buck that is pursuing her. I think having a healthy buck doe ratio is important as a starting point. Around here, you might see 20 doe before you see a buck and then it will probably be a spike or fork horn. What ever solution they come up with this needs to be fixed.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

I have never once been able to tell a button buck from a doe in the field in hunting conditions. I can see it happening in bow season possibly, but during gun things happen too fast and at farther distances to see the little nubs. yes they are smaller in stature, but so are young doe. and by the way, in most areas, the majority of yoy bucks are spikes or forks - not many trophy 8-10 pt. yoy running around.

ps - i would just assume shoot a mature (1.5 yr. +) deer (buck or doe), but that doesn't always happen for one reason or the other

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

If you kill off 174.000 legal bucks and 66.000 button bucks 2003 numbers.
What bucks are left to do all of the breeding ?


The scrubs! [:@]

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

color=#33FF66]Please Get Back ON the Topic![/color][/color]

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Sorry, I will try to stay on topic. :(

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

100 % for it! Its working! Bucks are up- saw 10 (non legal) bucks in 9 days of hunting. Does are down- avg 17 per day. (avg 40, 2 years ago)
The buck to doe ratio is beginning to come down to where it suppossed to be for a healthy deer heard and for our forests to regenerate.
Habitat, habitat, habitat. There will be no deer, or any other species, without first preserving and/or creating habitat!
Wildlife needs a place to live, Wide open forests do not work for any creature.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

DanV

Nice handle - same as me

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

for it

Saw more "nice" racks

30 years old

If you're a meat hunter than a doe tatses just as good as a any buck. Your 1 to 1 deer ratio in relation to total deer density is dictated solely on the habitat. Habitat is also the BEST indicator of wether you have too many deer. Look and see if you have any tulip poplar, white ash, oak and other favored species sprouting. If you don't know what deer prefer look it up. If these plants aren't there you have too many deer period. How many people are versed enough to make this determination without letting what happened in the past etc.. cloud their judgement? DCNR is doing aerial infrared surveillance as we speak to assist the PGC in determining deer densities in select areas across the state. This coupled with the harvest figures coming out in March will determine how many doe tags will be given out in "05" This is management, you respond to whatever your numbers show and make a determination to reach your goals. It is a private outfit doing the surveys. Why should the PGC be intimidated by arm chair biologists when they have the tools at their disposal and knowledge (despite what some think) to manage our deer herd????

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

For it ?

1 spike, 1 small 6 pointer, 6 doe.

Age 59

I can't see how it could work in Pa. most of the land is privately owned with most of the hunters hunting on public land, as for the DCNR aerial surveillance I trust that as much as I trusted the calculated harvest that started back in 1985.
I don't hunt just for the meat, it would be cheaper to buy it or pick up a road kill. But I do like it.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

I've been in the Fox Chapel suburban deer control program for 11 years now. they've done aerial infrared surveys since it started and I know that the people on the ground don't trust the results and thats only an area right around 5 square miles! We've (the hunters and the police who run the program) had big differences of opinion with the aerial surveys more than once.

I'm sure technology is getting better and it may be easier to be accurate in less poulated areas (people populations) but I would view it with skepticism.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

It seems as though nobody wants to believe what "they" say. I would really hate to be in their jobs. Deer give off a specific heat signature. Thick cover such as hemlock or rhodonendron will result in missed deer. I have a cheap 300 dollar unit and Counting more than you see is not a problem even from 200+ yards. We rely on this technology for our military and civilian police in urban and rural applications and it's not technology that is viewed with skepticism in this realm, apply it to deer counts though....... While it is not flawless it can give a pretty accurate assessment of our deer herd when combined with harvest results.
We can all sit back and shoot holes in something I mean what would you guys do that is practical and stands up to scientific criticism.?

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

lost horn
It does work! Think about it a deer will roam over 30 miles. Your telling me a deer will not leave private land in that distance. If deer never left private land I would just hunt the borders between public and private land.:) I will say it doesnt work as well as it does on private land. And thats because of one reason. Its called MENTALITY! How many times do you here this? IF I DONT SHOOT IT THE NEXT GUY WILL. I know not everyone likes what is going on in PA. And thats ok everyone has an opinion and thats what makes this forum great!

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

I forgot 1 thing in my last post. lost horn, You are right your first buck is 1 of your greatest trophy. If I would like to see a change it would be anybody that never shot a buck could shoot anything. But for that to happen the state would need checking stations.

RE: QDM POLL FOR PA
 

Well how about that, those so called experts had me believe all of these years that deer lived less than two miles from where it was borned, next they will be telling me that the deer layed the gypsy moth eggs that killed the oaks back in the 1990's.
Thanks