Just highlights of pa meeting
 

I'm just going to try and give some bullets on issues hunters spoke to at the PGC meeting in Hbg.

* Against concurrent seasons and excessive doe tags.

*one processor checked by the hunter said 49% of the antlerless brought in were BB

* Big woods, Wharton. Hunters going days without seeing any deer

* Southern pa, farmer. lack of deer seen and harvested.

* 75% (my guess) of speakers said the 1.6 million deer figure is a JOKE. It is not defendable as being 20% larger than when Alt took over. No hunter nor speaker defended the 1.6 million as credible.

* taxidermist saying business is off by 50%

*Bedford Pa survey 500 hunters 65% feel archery should be shortened.
89% said they do not agree with HR.
92% said they saw fewer bucks

*potter co, youth hunters. Discouraged at no sightings. Dismal hunt.

* Alts plan was a joke, he did not deliver what was promised.

* (many) camp owners reported camps closing or closed

* clinton co. camp large family, Home Lebanon. hunted early ml, rifle and late ml and they saw 3 deer in 2g. He related walking in 1.5 miles to not see anything.

* 2G &4c too many deer killed, his perception is that increased competition has increased hunter frustration, bad behavior, and accidents. does not like concurrent seasons

* Game news propoganda rag

* doe hunting only on private lands, not public in 4d

* PGC food plots on sgl 33 good, DCNR's nonexistant food plots in state forest no-good. 4D

*more hunter surveys

* a WCO told hunters he did not see a single deer while driving and checking hunters the first day (alive)

* hunters said the PGC should improve habitat

* dcnr park ranger said he drove (related to Union Co hunter in Bald Eagle SF) 100 miles and did not see a deer. Park ranger says he would more likely see a bear there than a deer.

* hunters conveyed the message that it is not a matter of not walking or hard hunting. Or lack of scouting. Its much more widespread than that.

*spoke of 2005 boycott of licenses

*spoke of not buying doe tags

* spoke of discouraged youth

* Small game is a joke, and big game is geting there...

* deer season "worse than expected"

* Commissioners need to be replaced, they are not doing a good job.

* large WMU's are bad. (many)

*Audubon and Habitat alliance are in a political power grab and hunters do not appreciate thier rhetoric

* Union Co camp, since 2000 no member has seen a buck. Speigelmyer camp (rod &gun)

* Alt missed the point. hunters DO want to see some deer. the anticipation of seeing one and it could be a buck are IMPORTANT

* WMU's suk

* PGC too far over the edge

*PGC destroying traditions

* herd down, down, down

* PGC needs to cut back on seasons

* go back to basics

*2G & 4d a joke, Audubon a joke

*PGC should PUBLISH what they think the estimated pa predator kill is

* herd estimtions not accurate

*1.6 million a joke, not credible.

*Audubon using deer to futher thier political agenda

* Hunters told LAST YEAR of these same problems

* Too high doe tags

* 200 mile trip to camp, now does not show any deer spotted

* archers being able to take bucks, but early ML not is unfair.
archers allowed to take buck before breeding is counter to PGC doctrine
of taking does early and buck later. 15 counties the archers took 30% or more of the buck before bredding is done.

* PGC should share info on computer model

* hunters adressed regeneration and habitat issues as not the ONLY issue our forests face.

*Projections from last year, about specific WMU's was waaaay off. Tag allotments were way off from reality.

* pa is not texas, we have different areas which require different solutions. One size all is not working.

* Audubons report says PGC official particpated, BUT DO NOT WANT TO BE NAMED. Who were they?

* Alt is Pa's Benedict Arnold

* WHO are the members of Pa Habitat Alliance?



This is not all comments, just those on deer issue. And the comments by the paid foresters, and Pa farm bureau lobbyists and timber lobbyists can be summed up as.... Blah blah ecosystem, blah blah timber sales, blah, blah neotropical birds, blahty blah, politics etc... etc... etc...

Nothing new from thier side...

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

Sounds like an unbiased report. Thanks chick.

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

I hope that other States, such as my home state of NY, are watching and learning from what happened in PA.

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RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

I'm on both sides of the fence here. Its interesting to read this. Nice work chickory.

I do however take offense to the comments about shortened archery and not being allowed to take a buck. If this were done, me, along with countless thousands of other archers would not hunt at all. I have no qualms with the gun hunters. They do serve a vital purpose in our deer management. There are too many gun only hunters who have something out for us bowhunters. As for the earlier muzzleloader season, get rid of it. We never had it before and by the looks of things, its only compounding the herd reduction problem. The youth hunt is a good idea. We need that type of hunt to further stimulate the introduction of new hunters into this depleating number.

Sorry, but taking aim at us bowhunters is not cool. I do gun hunt, its limited, but I usually take the gun for a walk each year. I don't have anything against it. But, to those taking aim at just the bowhunters are usually people who have never tried bowhunting and their tru ignorace shines through with comments like that.

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

I had a feeling this would happen. Probably contributes to "mistaken buck kills".

So Muzzy, you as a bowhunter, have something out for us ML's?

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

Give me a break, unbiased... hogwash.

I've read two other reports from the meeting. They told other sides of the arguements where as chickory only seems to have one side to tell.

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

What happened to the shotgun/rifle issue too?? Thought there was some high powered representative that was going to speak on that?? I have not seen any mention of it on any report yet.

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

T in Pa 1/23 was for hunters input , 1/24 is for legislators etc. to have say that is when Boscola is speaking.
I spoke yesterday! and was one that suggested shortening archery season back to 4 weeks and have archers and ML earn a buck by harvesting a doe first!

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

Earn a buck won't work in PA. There's simply too many hunters.

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

"Earn a buck" will most certainly work! Bowmen will have to bend as well as all hunters if this problem of lack of deer in certain areas is to be solved. In fact, in SRA's it should be SOP!

How many Commissioners were present? How did they react to the testimony given by hunters?

Now is the time to write to these Commissioners and express your thought on the past season. We must keep the pressure on as soon we'll all be chirping like turkeys and forget about deer.

Was there any mention of the poor Small Game" situation? What about the PGC's Grouse Study Report, any mention of it?

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

Chicory = unbiased ???????????????????????????????????

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

Look at how many anterless deer we have taken with out earn a buck! If we were to go to earn a buck we would really knock the number of deer down low. Some hunters pass anterless deer up now. If you force them to shoot a doe before they can take a buck you won't have deer left. You think deer numbers are low now?

It might work in SRAs but not statewide.

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

Here is a quote from Steve Trupe of QDMA.


Can anyone explain how the weather patterns caused fewer deer sightings and lower harvests in 2004. I though the weather was much better than in 2003.

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

If they were to go to earn a buck...I would just tag a roadkill....I'm serious!

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

They do it in NJ. Go find a roadkill and tag it. Give it to your buddy for him to use then too. Over and over again.

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

I thought you were a big supporter of Alt's HR plan. What happened to change your mind or do you just want someone else to do the work of managing the herd?

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

That's why it will never come to be....I'm not too worried about things like that.

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

T In Pa & Livbucks, I may have missed it even though I was waiting in the lot for the doors to open and one of the last to leave that same lot...just when was it you 2 spoke your minds to the Board?
There will always be those that will knowingly break the intent of a law doing things like tagging a RK but the majority of sportsmen are honest people that really do care about doing the correct thing!

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

I don't have anything to ******* moan or complain about.

I didn't know it was a prerequisite speak at the meeting to post here.

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

HUH? Was uncle Uly with you?

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

I am sympathetic to your discomforts and wish not to add to your plight, so out of compassion to you, I will tag a roadkill. Who says we horn hunters are unfeeling?

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

I was kidding about chickory being unbiased. I knew he would only report one side of the story.

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

So ,although you support Alt's herd reduction plan, if you are required to participate ,you feeling admit you will violate the law.

If that is the case why shouldn't those that don't support AR, simply ignore the law and shoot waht ever buck they want?

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

Maybe some day the people of this state will under stand that the goverment is the problem not the solution.If you don't own land to hunt on , then you should look in to it.The only people that will have a true say in deer management will be the land owners.Right now timber companys are the largest holders of huntable land.They want the deer killed.If you believe like most people that white tailed deer are more important than neotropical birds and some kind of fern I don't know how to spell.You should buy that piece of land that you enjoy hunting and manage it to suit you and your families needs.

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

But the nice thing is that YOU can report anything you want. If you know of better information, you are free to cut and paste it and report it.

We are just like Fox News, we report....you decide!

If there are better reports out there, then post them, or give your own account of the testimony.... oops! thats right you weren't there. :)

hehehe....

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

MikeE51848, Nope, nothing against Muzzleloaders. As archers, for as long as I remember, we have always had the time alotted we have now. To the best of my knowledge, archers make up an enormous amount of the states hunters. I don't mind the muzzleloaders I guess. But its supposed to be a primitive weapons season. Get rid of the inlines during this period.

Shortening the archery season? What good would that do?

I'm in favor of trying an earn a buck program only if they reduce antlerless allocations. I have no problem killing a doe first. I usually do anyway.

RE: Just highlights of pa meeting
 

To save a bit of typing....copy and paste Muzzyman's comments. I tend to accept and agree with most of what chickory originally posted. Herd numbers are down...significantly since three years ago and the current population estimate cannot be correct unless all of those 1.6 million deer are on private...unhuntable land. I would be willing to wager that changing the rifle season back to the way it was would be enough to begin to again balance the deer herd to the point where a majority of the sportsman begin to see deer again on a fairly regular basis.