Things not likely to change in PA... at least not this year.
01-10-2005, 09:24 AM
#1
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
Things not likely to change in PA... at least not this year.
From The Pittsburgh Tribune review:
By Bob Frye
TRIBUNE-REVIEW OUTDOORS EDITOR
Sunday, January 9, 2005
Hunters who are hoping to see big changes in the direction of the state's deer management plan anytime soon are likely to be disappointed.
The Pennsylvania Game Commission board will meet Jan. 23-25 to set preliminary seasons and bag limits for 2005-06. Final approval won't come until April, when this fall's doe license allocation will also be set.
Right now, though, , indications are that most commissioners want to continue along the present course of trying to balance the state's deer herd with its habitat.
That means a continuation of things like concurrent buck and doe seasons, an October doe season and antler restrictions.
Commissioner John Riley of Monroe County said he knows that won't please some hunters. And he understands their desire to see lots of deer.
But commissioners took an oath to serve the best interests of all wildlife for all Pennsylvanians, he said, not just the eight percent or so who buy a hunting license.
"You know what Ralph Abele used to say, it's resource first," Riley said.
Commissioners has been receiving some complaints from some hunters saying they saw few or no deer. State Sen. Rich Kasunic, a Fayette County Democrat, for example, urged them to allocate fewer doe licenses, return to the days of a separate three-day doe season, and go to smaller management units.
Charles Bolgiano, a director of the Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania, sent a letter to each member of the Senate and House Game and Fisheries committees asking that legislators take the authority for managing deer away from the Game Commission and put it in the hands of local stakeholder groups.
Not all of the comments being received are so negative, though, said Game Commission president Russ Schleiden of Centre County. He said he's heard from almost as many people who support of the deer program.
What hunters need to understand is that while there are undoubtedly "cold spots" around the state that have fewer deer than they once did, that doesn't mean now is the time to make wholesale changes to the deer program, Schleiden said. The 2004-05 harvest figures that will be the basis of any decisions won't even be available until early March.
"The numbers that come in will tell us what to do," Schleiden said.
"Really, we have until April to make decisions, so we shouldn't make any rash decisions now," agreed Commissioner Roxane Palone of Greene County. "I don't think we need to panic yet."
Many of the hunters who are complaining seem to be noticing bigger bucks but fewer deer overall, said commissioner Greg Isabelle of Philadelphia. That's exactly the result the deer program was set up to bring about.
If the commission didn't do a good enough job explaining its objectives, that has to be corrected since he thinks it will take two more years of concurrent seasons and antler restrictions to see if the deer program is working. That doesn't man he might not push for a reduction in doe licenses -- he argued for and got reductions last year, too -- but he otherwise wants to stay the course.
"My opinion is we have to listen to everybody and give them their say. But just because they're loud doesn't mean they're right," Isabella said. "I think we're going in the right direction."
Commissioner Thomas Boop of Northumberland County is less convinced that's the case. Boop said he's hearing two things from hunters: they want shorter doe seasons and fewer doe licenses.
"What's coming through loud and clear is, hunters measure success by how much sign they see, how much shooting they hear, what they see when they're out there," Boop said.
"And what I'm hearing is that mot of them are not satisfied with what they're seeing out there."
He's afraid, too, that the deer management program is not designed to address "cold spots." If that can't be fixed, he would entertain the idea of eliminating wildlife management units and going back to county boundaries for setting doe license allocations.
If his fellow commissioners don't go that route, Boop said the responsibility for ensuring adequate deer numbers will fall to hunters. They should consider letting does go or shooting only one per year.
"If in some areas these allocation numbers are too high, I think that's an appropriate response in those areas," Boop said.
Commissioner Steve Mohr of Lancaster County also thinks the commission needs to do an about face if it hopes to retain the support of hunters.
"The ship has a pretty big hole in it right now, so I hope they're bailing," Mohr said.
Riley, though, said commissioners need to defend the resource.
"I know we're going to get a lot of criticism, we're going to get a lot of heat," Riley said. "I just hope we're big enough to do our job right."
Bob Frye can be reached at [email protected] or (724) 838-5148.
[link]http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/outdoors/s_291308.html[/link]
Doesnt look like the PGC is ready to hear from anyone yet. Pro or Con.
Frankly, past of me says that any changes this drastic need time to work but I also think it's wrong if they go into these meetings with closed minds.
Makes you wonder what all went on inside leading up to ALt's retirement.
By Bob Frye
TRIBUNE-REVIEW OUTDOORS EDITOR
Sunday, January 9, 2005
Hunters who are hoping to see big changes in the direction of the state's deer management plan anytime soon are likely to be disappointed.
The Pennsylvania Game Commission board will meet Jan. 23-25 to set preliminary seasons and bag limits for 2005-06. Final approval won't come until April, when this fall's doe license allocation will also be set.
Right now, though, , indications are that most commissioners want to continue along the present course of trying to balance the state's deer herd with its habitat.
That means a continuation of things like concurrent buck and doe seasons, an October doe season and antler restrictions.
Commissioner John Riley of Monroe County said he knows that won't please some hunters. And he understands their desire to see lots of deer.
But commissioners took an oath to serve the best interests of all wildlife for all Pennsylvanians, he said, not just the eight percent or so who buy a hunting license.
"You know what Ralph Abele used to say, it's resource first," Riley said.
Commissioners has been receiving some complaints from some hunters saying they saw few or no deer. State Sen. Rich Kasunic, a Fayette County Democrat, for example, urged them to allocate fewer doe licenses, return to the days of a separate three-day doe season, and go to smaller management units.
Charles Bolgiano, a director of the Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania, sent a letter to each member of the Senate and House Game and Fisheries committees asking that legislators take the authority for managing deer away from the Game Commission and put it in the hands of local stakeholder groups.
Not all of the comments being received are so negative, though, said Game Commission president Russ Schleiden of Centre County. He said he's heard from almost as many people who support of the deer program.
What hunters need to understand is that while there are undoubtedly "cold spots" around the state that have fewer deer than they once did, that doesn't mean now is the time to make wholesale changes to the deer program, Schleiden said. The 2004-05 harvest figures that will be the basis of any decisions won't even be available until early March.
"The numbers that come in will tell us what to do," Schleiden said.
"Really, we have until April to make decisions, so we shouldn't make any rash decisions now," agreed Commissioner Roxane Palone of Greene County. "I don't think we need to panic yet."
Many of the hunters who are complaining seem to be noticing bigger bucks but fewer deer overall, said commissioner Greg Isabelle of Philadelphia. That's exactly the result the deer program was set up to bring about.
If the commission didn't do a good enough job explaining its objectives, that has to be corrected since he thinks it will take two more years of concurrent seasons and antler restrictions to see if the deer program is working. That doesn't man he might not push for a reduction in doe licenses -- he argued for and got reductions last year, too -- but he otherwise wants to stay the course.
"My opinion is we have to listen to everybody and give them their say. But just because they're loud doesn't mean they're right," Isabella said. "I think we're going in the right direction."
Commissioner Thomas Boop of Northumberland County is less convinced that's the case. Boop said he's hearing two things from hunters: they want shorter doe seasons and fewer doe licenses.
"What's coming through loud and clear is, hunters measure success by how much sign they see, how much shooting they hear, what they see when they're out there," Boop said.
"And what I'm hearing is that mot of them are not satisfied with what they're seeing out there."
He's afraid, too, that the deer management program is not designed to address "cold spots." If that can't be fixed, he would entertain the idea of eliminating wildlife management units and going back to county boundaries for setting doe license allocations.
If his fellow commissioners don't go that route, Boop said the responsibility for ensuring adequate deer numbers will fall to hunters. They should consider letting does go or shooting only one per year.
"If in some areas these allocation numbers are too high, I think that's an appropriate response in those areas," Boop said.
Commissioner Steve Mohr of Lancaster County also thinks the commission needs to do an about face if it hopes to retain the support of hunters.
"The ship has a pretty big hole in it right now, so I hope they're bailing," Mohr said.
Riley, though, said commissioners need to defend the resource.
"I know we're going to get a lot of criticism, we're going to get a lot of heat," Riley said. "I just hope we're big enough to do our job right."
Bob Frye can be reached at [email protected] or (724) 838-5148.
[link]http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/outdoors/s_291308.html[/link]
Doesnt look like the PGC is ready to hear from anyone yet. Pro or Con.
Frankly, past of me says that any changes this drastic need time to work but I also think it's wrong if they go into these meetings with closed minds.
Makes you wonder what all went on inside leading up to ALt's retirement.
01-10-2005, 10:31 AM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,190
RE: Things not likely to change in PA... at least not this year.
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
From The Pittsburgh Tribune review:
By Bob Frye
TRIBUNE-REVIEW OUTDOORS EDITOR
Sunday, January 9, 2005
Hunters who are hoping to see big changes in the direction of the state's deer management plan anytime soon are likely to be disappointed.
"My opinion is we have to listen to everybody and give them their say. But just because they're loud doesn't mean they're right," Isabella said. "I think we're going in the right direction."
Commissioner Thomas Boop of Northumberland County is less convinced that's the case. Boop said he's hearing two things from hunters: they want shorter doe seasons and fewer doe licenses.
"What's coming through loud and clear is, hunters measure success by how much sign they see, how much shooting they hear, what they see when they're out there," Boop said.
"And what I'm hearing is that mot of them are not satisfied with what they're seeing out there."
Commissioner Steve Mohr of Lancaster County also thinks the commission needs to do an about face if it hopes to retain the support of hunters.
"
Doesnt look like the PGC is ready to hear from anyone yet. Pro or Con.
Frankly, past of me says that any changes this drastic need time to work but I also think it's wrong if they go into these meetings with closed minds.
Makes you wonder what all went on inside leading up to ALt's retirement.
From The Pittsburgh Tribune review:
By Bob Frye
TRIBUNE-REVIEW OUTDOORS EDITOR
Sunday, January 9, 2005
Hunters who are hoping to see big changes in the direction of the state's deer management plan anytime soon are likely to be disappointed.
"My opinion is we have to listen to everybody and give them their say. But just because they're loud doesn't mean they're right," Isabella said. "I think we're going in the right direction."
Commissioner Thomas Boop of Northumberland County is less convinced that's the case. Boop said he's hearing two things from hunters: they want shorter doe seasons and fewer doe licenses.
"What's coming through loud and clear is, hunters measure success by how much sign they see, how much shooting they hear, what they see when they're out there," Boop said.
"And what I'm hearing is that mot of them are not satisfied with what they're seeing out there."
Commissioner Steve Mohr of Lancaster County also thinks the commission needs to do an about face if it hopes to retain the support of hunters.
"
Doesnt look like the PGC is ready to hear from anyone yet. Pro or Con.
Frankly, past of me says that any changes this drastic need time to work but I also think it's wrong if they go into these meetings with closed minds.
Makes you wonder what all went on inside leading up to ALt's retirement.
01-10-2005, 11:58 AM
#3
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 255
RE: Things not likely to change in PA... at least not this year.
Your probably right about some commissioners not being open minded BT, its a shame really that our system is set up with political appointees.
Thats a pretty good observation about the commission btw, I am also surprised that they are going into this Jan meeting with what appears to be a less that open minded approach.
The current deer team will make reccomendations, then they will hear testimony from hunters as they have done for a 100 years, then they vote for what they think is best.
but this year they seem to have made up thier minds before the vote.
Rem110... your comment, while funny, had no merit.
Thats a pretty good observation about the commission btw, I am also surprised that they are going into this Jan meeting with what appears to be a less that open minded approach.
The current deer team will make reccomendations, then they will hear testimony from hunters as they have done for a 100 years, then they vote for what they think is best.
but this year they seem to have made up thier minds before the vote.
Rem110... your comment, while funny, had no merit.
01-10-2005, 12:14 PM
#4
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 135
RE: Things not likely to change in PA... at least not this year.
Pa.s problem will never go away because you have to many hunters. Your second only to texas well pa. isn't texas. You'll either have a health deer heard low numbers or have a unhealth deer herd to many.
01-10-2005, 12:21 PM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 947
RE: Things not likely to change in PA... at least not this year.
But commissioners took an oath to serve the best interests of all wildlife for all Pennsylvanians, he said, not just the eight percent or so who buy a hunting license.
01-10-2005, 03:27 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Slower Lower Delaware 1st State
Posts: 1,776
RE: Things not likely to change in PA... at least not this year.
Great Post with some common sense ideas on PA's deer management program.
What happened to the ALT bashers? That ALT guy might be gone but his wildlife management ideas are echoed by others. QDM has made its way to PA as it has in many states. Whether it be forced AR or some kind of managed Doe harvest sounds like Alt's philosophy is here to stay.
What happened to the ALT bashers? That ALT guy might be gone but his wildlife management ideas are echoed by others. QDM has made its way to PA as it has in many states. Whether it be forced AR or some kind of managed Doe harvest sounds like Alt's philosophy is here to stay.
01-10-2005, 03:38 PM
#7
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 205
RE: Things not likely to change in PA... at least not this year.
AJ: you want an Alt basher...I'm one! and so are the majority of deer hunters in Pa, fact is more of the Advisory Board becomes one each day too.
Alt said it himself..he would never have resigned if he had been allowed to do the job he wanted...whom stopped him??? it was the Board of Commissioners an Legislators of the state whom represent hunters statewide.
yes there are some that want Iowa type antlers here in Pa but if you were able to take a vote today just what % of those 8% of Pa citizen do you think would vote Horn over herd? Darn few
902 you agree the PGC should manage the deer for all citizens not just the 8% that hunt.... I say as long as we that DO hunt are paying 100% of the PGC's operating fund that's whom they are obligated to listen to first.
No one ever said there are not WMUs that have too many deer, but when was the last time you heard a horn hunters say there are SOME WMUs with too few deer???????
Alt said it himself..he would never have resigned if he had been allowed to do the job he wanted...whom stopped him??? it was the Board of Commissioners an Legislators of the state whom represent hunters statewide.
yes there are some that want Iowa type antlers here in Pa but if you were able to take a vote today just what % of those 8% of Pa citizen do you think would vote Horn over herd? Darn few
902 you agree the PGC should manage the deer for all citizens not just the 8% that hunt.... I say as long as we that DO hunt are paying 100% of the PGC's operating fund that's whom they are obligated to listen to first.
No one ever said there are not WMUs that have too many deer, but when was the last time you heard a horn hunters say there are SOME WMUs with too few deer???????
01-10-2005, 06:13 PM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tunkhannock, PA USA
Posts: 171
RE: Things not likely to change in PA... at least not this year.
[quote]ORIGINAL: wingbar
AJ: you want an Alt basher...I'm one! and so are the majority of deer hunters in Pa,
News to me? where do you get your stats your own personnal pole? Most every hunter I know supports Alt and his programs.
AJ: you want an Alt basher...I'm one! and so are the majority of deer hunters in Pa,
News to me? where do you get your stats your own personnal pole? Most every hunter I know supports Alt and his programs.
01-10-2005, 07:24 PM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Things not likely to change in PA... at least not this year.
As Alt said in the article. A VERY vocal minority is causing the problem.
I encourage ALL to write the commissioners and let the chips fall where they may! Let your voice be heard! No matter what side you're on here, we're either preachin to the choir or to a brick wall.
I encourage ALL to write the commissioners and let the chips fall where they may! Let your voice be heard! No matter what side you're on here, we're either preachin to the choir or to a brick wall.
01-10-2005, 08:20 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 1,279
RE: Things not likely to change in PA... at least not this year.
No way is the majority of hunters in PA against Alts management ideas. I know one or two older men who still don't belive in shooting does, and I know maybe 10-12 guys who hunt PA and are all for the HR and AR.