RE: Deer management in PA
 

just in awe of the logic that is posted by some people whom grew up hunting pre HR,AR, youth days,etc. that think without their kids getting special treatment they will drop out of hunting...plain BS

why not just take the kid to a shooting preserve if all they need is a kill to keep them involved???????
why not teach them properly that it IS NOT THE KILL that is important?????? But the hunt!
Could be a reflection of the parent's view that the horns and kill are the reason sportsmen hunt. Typical "the ends justify the means" generation logic...sad very sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Deer management in PA
 

Real sad that some fathers just don't see what they are doing to the kids. Putting the kill before the experience of the hunt. Or trying to teach a child that if the antlers on a buck aren't XXXX big that it is not worthy of a kill. Sad very very sad!

RE: Deer management in PA
 

My son asked me that if a buck came along, how many points should it have for him to want to take it. I said 1 point, at least 3 inches long. He looked at me kind of puzzled. I told him that as a young hunter, he should not set too high a standard for success. That trophy hunting comes along after years of success and is something that every individual decides for himself. I said that I would be the happiest man in the world if he was to harvest ANY legal buck (junior hunter) and would consider that buck, no matter how small, to be the greatest trophy of my entire hunting life... He said "Oh, ok Dad"

RE: Deer management in PA
 

well said sir besides you eat enough wild mushrooms they all look like biguns!

RE: Deer management in PA
 

Real sad is an old man with nothing better to to than try his best to stir up controversy where there shouldnt be one. It's even sadder when he has to sign on under anothre name just to agree with himself!

RE: Deer management in PA
 

trying to elicit a negative response once again?????
I made a post as a compliment to another poster (livbucks) why or how does that invole you? Unless of course you are stirring the proverbial pot. I think the mods should pick up on that!

RE: Deer management in PA
 

I certainly hope they do! Of course I hope they check all posts and isp's for all of us as well.

RE: Deer management in PA
 

I get alittle confused on here,it seems like everybody is responding to germain.I figured it out after seeing somebody talkin about an old man.That aint me.:D

RE: Deer management in PA
 

When you respond the first time its generally to the intended person but after that, every post in tat thread seeems to be in response to that same person.

Just a little glitch on the forum. Still a great forum though!

RE: Deer management in PA
 

Well said U, just goes to show that we don't need to see 30 deer a day to have a good day hunting.;)

RE: Deer management in PA
 

deer: but you need to see some to hold anyone's interest. How long would you sit on the beach looking for 2 pcs and only see hairy potbellied old men?

RE: Deer management in PA
 

I agree but not too the point where it was before.
I agree with that too, but I'm not ready to burn down the PGC as they try to figure out the best way to do this.

RE: Deer management in PA
 

Some guys just want "THEIR" kids to be able to kill a buck, you know the type the guys that feel everyone but their kids should obey the rules afterall when the rules were written they really didn't mean his kids.

almost everyone I know wants to see AR work,they also agree for them to work EVERYONE needs to be on the same page of the rule book.
It is the hunt not the kill, if some father thinks his kid needs to kill then why hinder AR? take the kid to a game farm an let him blast one of those "wild boars" for the soup pot. WB

RE: Deer management in PA
 

You're right about those reasons, but as for a "special" hunt..NO WAY!! They must at some point in life make hard decisions, as to which they'd rather be doing. I fully understand school activities,but creating any special season to accomodate school activities , is wrong.

RE: Deer management in PA
 

Rem1100 you are correct there are enough special interest seasons right now. If a youth can't decide he wants to hunt by getting out during one of them he just doesn't want to hunt.
I'm not anti youth by a long shot but I do feel if you're old enough to make the descion to kill a game animal you're old enough to know you must plan your leisure time.
I also feel a youth should be taught to be happy with a doe if they don't see a AR legal buck. Too much pressure to produce antlers will result in a kid that drops hunting faster than going to football practice.WB

RE: Deer management in PA
 

thats what we have all been told, that a doe is as much a trophy as any small buck. I wonder why they are sending youth a mixed signal?

RE: Deer management in PA
 

my guess would be some guys talk out both sides of their face, they claim it is not about the kill so they only hunt trophy monster bucks and cull extra doe then send their own kids out and do a poor job of instilling their very own values. sad very very sad

RE: Deer management in PA
 

What's sad is an adult hunter who rails against AR but since they have to abide by it demands that it be imposed on kids. He wants the good old days for himself but would deny a youngster the chance to shoot that first buck that he would shoot if given the opportunity. he would deny a kid the chance to take a smaller first buck. a chance, he himself, had as a kid.

Since Wingy, Uly, whoever he is today has all but named me here and suggested it's about my kids, I feel it important to note that my 15 year old has not shot a buck yet but has passed up some small, but, legal to him, bucks while he waits for a good one. So it's not about MY kids. Its about the drastic reduction in youth hunters.

Many here have said that we need ALL hunters. Well guess what?
All hunters will die someday and the only way to keep the numbers up is if we make the effort.

Special seasons and easier standards are only a small help but they also are statistically insignificant to the deer kill and it ought to be a cost we're willing to bear.

The best thing we all could do to help keep kids interested is to take em out in the woods. I know way to many hunting adults who just dont take their kids even when dad is going and the kid wants to go. If you dont have kids take a nephew, grandson, neighbor etc.

RE: Deer management in PA
 

when I was a kid if I wanted to kill a buck,any buck I was competeing on a playing field with ALL hunters who had a crack at that buck. Unlike kids with the current AR whom only compete with other kids or servicemen.
Even Dr. Alt originally wanted EVERYONE under AR but it was Bruce Smith and a few other comm. whom lobbied for the current exclusions.
There is no sound management for AR that included allowing a special interest group to harvest a inmature buck.

MANY, MANY times I have stated I'm in favor of even stricter AR, put buck on a lottery draw, earn a buck programs,etc. FOR ALL AGE GROUPS!
I stand but what I previously wrote: if a parent thinks the kill is so important to the kids then take them to a game preserve if they need to kill a buck for sure, otherwise teach them to harvest a doe in WMUs that are over populated.WB

RE: Deer management in PA
 

So, are you saying that with what, 60+ years to kill a buck of your choice, it now bothers you to let a forkie go by just for some 12 year old to shoot it and make the high point of his short life.

And are you saying that one of our military on leave, who maybe has a day or two to hunt, shouldnt get a little bit of extar consideration?

RE: Deer management in PA
 

Since when was shooting a buck under the old rules a "sure thing"? The idea of letting juniors shoot under the old AR was to give them a little more opportunity instead of putting more pressure on them to judge their buck when it appears. Many kids probably are more selective and won't shoot that spike, but that is their choosing. It has already been proven that the actual kill of sub AR bucks by juniors is statistically insignificant, but the idea that they have more of a chance is to them, well, motivating to say the least. I say let the juniors shoot any buck. Servicemen..that I'm not sure of. Do they have to be active servicemen?

RE: Deer management in PA
 

YES!! but take them during an regular season..not make a "special" season to fit in around their young "busy" schedules. My daughter went hunting with me when she wanted to go. She had to make the choice of which she'd rather do that day, and until later, she chose hunting over other activities.
The last sentence of your quote is sad & true........

RE: Deer management in PA
 

I'm not sure about the special youth hunts. I'm not against them per se' but isn't it like saying;
"OK kiddies, you can go on your hunt now, but when regular season rolls around, you gotta stay home with Mommy while the grown men go on their trip" ?

Although they do have special youth fishing days. Don't they? I guess any opportunity to introduce the youth to the sport is good in the end.

Maybe the thinking is that the weather is better for the kids.
Maybe the thinking is that there will be more open spots in the woods instead of fighting with other guys over the better places to watch.
I'm still not decided on this yet I guess.

I guess the fact that I WANT my kid to go out every time with me makes the youth hunts seem unnecessary.

RE: Deer management in PA
 

AR is AR no special treatment for kids no special treatment for servicemen active or inactive
when I was in the service an home on leave I was just happy to get out in the woods and pleased I was sure to get a county doe permit. That was enough my old Uncle Uly taught me it was the hunt not the kill.

RE: Deer management in PA
 

I would hope it would be more like a day for dad to take the kid out and just concentrate on the kid's hunt. I guess my A__hole brother in law sticks in my mind. When his son was 12 I took my son AND my nephew because brother in law didnt want to be bothered messing his hunt up. Maybe he's an exception, maybe not. I sure hope he is!

RE: Deer management in PA
 

I know what you mean BTB

Since my kid started hunting, every day in the woods is all about my kid.
I'm naieve in that some guys don't want to be bothered. Would never occur to me to be that way.

RE: Deer management in PA
 

Livbucks
To answer your question about servicemen, yes it's only for active duty folks.

RE: Deer management in PA
 

Maybe I'm missing something here.They said the deer are destroying our forests and the maples are taking over.We all know deer browse maples and maples shade out the oaks.So if there's alot less deer aren't there going to be alot more maples shading out the oaks?It just seems bass ackwards to me.

RE: Deer management in PA
 

germain: what you are missing is that now Pa has a very vocal minority of hunters that are more interested in trying to make Pa into a midwester deer state,also whom are perfectly content seeing just 25 deer in a season of hard hunting as long as 12 of them are "shooter" buck. The same type of shooter bucks they see getting killed on thier hunting videos.
Pa is not Ill, Iowa, Ks,etc. we are way to populated for that.
what these wannabe video stars should do is spend more time in Philadelphia county archery hunting for those type of bucks rather than trying to get the MAJORITY of hunters in Pa to change the state to their wishes. WB

RE: Deer management in PA
 

man wingbar those guys would be real pressed to see 25 deer a year on public land.In the NC that ain't happing.Lucky to see 1 or 2 a day.

RE: Deer management in PA
 

I live and hunt in the NC (3A) and hunt both private and public land and hunted more this year than ever as I am now working midnite shift with my days off. I didn't see hardly 30 deer in ALL hunting seasons combined.
I hunt in Sask. everyother year and that's about what I see there but I know that going in. Pa has way to big of a pop. to try and manage deer like they do there in Sask..
I also hunt in Tx every year on my father in laws ranch it is nothing to see 200 deer a DAY.
i don't recall anyone complaining about deer numbers 25 yrs ago here in what is now 3A, and we killed plenty of big bucks then too!
If a hunters opts to pass on a spike,Y or even a small 8 that should be his choice not forced on him here in Pa just like in Tx or Sask.