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Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
The Archery Deer season is quickly approaching in NJ. Sept 7th for some zones. Time do our scouting and plan our hunting spots.
For those of you who hunt public Wildlife Management Areas (WMA) and plan on using permanent deer stands (IE: Ladders, hanging, tripods, stands built with wood, etc), I have just one suggestion, don't do it. WMA's are there for all of us to enjoy on a 1st come 1st served basis. I have found over the years, that people who put up stands described above, feel that they become 'owners' of the area in which the stand is placed. Just because they spend some time and money to buy/make a stand and put it up, they have 1st rights to the area. This is not so. Your stand has now become public property for the public to do with as it sees fit. Now I am a member of the hunting public and I HATE permanent stands. I have petitioned Fish and Game the last two years to make permanent stands illegal on WMAs. I've been thanked for my opinion and dismissed. Last year, 1 week before the season, someone put up 2 big wooden elevated box stands up on an area I've ground hunted from for years. I couldn't believe it. I wouldn't move though, the spot was hot and it was public land. Opening day, i was the 1st one there. I didn't get up in the stands because I felt that wasn't right. I stuck to where i wanted to hunt from on the ground. This happened to be right in between the two stands. About a 1/2 hour after was set up, here come 2 flashlights down the road. I flicked my flashlight on and off so the knew I was there. They made a bee line for me. When they arrived, they told me about the two stands they put up and asked me if I'd seen them. I said 'Yes, but I wouldn't sit there, I like this spot'. They said they were going to hunt the stands and I would have to leave. I said "This is public land and I'm not moving I was here first". They STRONGLY suggested I leave (if you know what I mean, they didn't look happy). There were two of them and they were bigger than me. I left. The battle lines have been drawn. Invest in a climbing stand or get one of those new pop up ground blinds you can carry in and take out. Or just find good cover and hunt from the ground. The public lands are for everyone. Don't try and monopolize an area or be willing to except the fact that someone could be sitting in your stand or your stand might not be there at all. By the way, this goes for duck blinds on WMAs as well. Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,, Duckmastor2 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Duck, permanent stands (nailed to a tree) are illegal on WMA's. However, putting up a hang-on stand is okay, and I have to disagree with you about what you did. Yes, those permanent wooden stand were not supposed to be there, but they were. So why would you put yourself in the position to be involved in a confrontation on opening day? In my opinion, you went into that area opening morning looking for trouble, found it, and then got upset about it. I hunt public land almost exclusively. When I see another hunter's stand, I look for a place elswhere. If someone is hunting there, respect that, show some consideration and find another place to hunt. Besides, you don't know how often they hunt the spot (they could be overhunting it), they may not be very careful about reducing their scent in the area and they may be ruining the spot, or have already ruined it.
It seems like some hunters hunt for stands instead of deer. Often, when someone moves in on me and I relocate, they find my stand and set up on top of me again. I have had this same thing happen on private land that others had permission to hunt, as well as public lands. I'm not saying you did this, but many people do. Hunting crowded public lands requires some common consideration. If you don't practice this, and move too close to someone elses stand just because your miffed that they took "your" spot, then you will find trouble. I hunt for deer, not trouble. What are you hunting for out there? Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 08/24/2002 07:24:56 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Don't try and monopolize an area or be willing to except the fact that someone could be sitting in your stand or your stand might not be there at all. Duckmastor2 <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> I just read your post again. You need to clarify this statement I've quoted above. If you are one of those guy's that steals stands because you're pissed off that someone put it there, on public land, then you don't belong in the woods, and are a thief, not a hunter. I hope that you didn't mean what this seems to imply, but if you did mean it this way, you are looking for serious trouble, and injury each fall, not deer. Please do all of us in NJ a favor and stay in Delaware. Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 08/24/2002 06:40:47 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Sounds like sour grapes to me. Although you have just as much right to hunt a area as much as anyone especially being there first ,but it sounds as if you're more jealous than anything else.
I've built permanent waterfowl blinds on WMA and never had a problem. I used to hunt only on the weekdays and beating me to them was next to impossible as I'd be in one and set up 2 hours before shooting time. I didn't hunt on the weekend or holidays so I'm sure that they were enjoyed by other hunters. On public land it's first come first serve, as long as a person that builds one understands that there shouldn't ever be a problem. |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Actually NJ, Im not a thief. Funny you said that. This post is a "tamed down version". I eliminated a whole paragraph explaining possible actions to be taken to rectify the permanent stand problem since Fish and Game has decided to do nothing. "Im not thief" was the 1st sentence of that paragraph. I dont take things that arent mine.
I appreciate your opinions. I dont agree with them, but I appreciate hearing other peoples take to the situation. From what you said, it is perfectly exceptable for people to place stands and claim public land for themselves only. They have effectively done this in your case since you stated "When I see another hunter's stand, I look for a place elswhere" In theory, if i put up enough stands on 'X' amount of land, i could effective keep all people with your feelings off the property. This is not exceptable and it blows my mind that people feel it is. Ruddy, jealous? I think not. I own a hang on, ladder and climbing stand. Im just not ignorant enough put them up on public property. I put them out on my friends land and some land I sub lease. Thats where they belong. Since you dont waterfowl hunt on the weekends, I can see why you have little if no problems. Give it a go on a Saturday morning sometime and let me know how it works out. I will continue to do what I can (legally NJ) to get these stands and blinds out. Im not shutting up or going away. And you can bet i'll be out there in the fall. Maybe we'll run into each other and we can talk about it further. I'll be the guy with the portable hunting stool or climber. :) Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,, Duckmastor2 Edited by - Duckmastor2 on 08/24/2002 09:34:28 Edited by - Duckmastor2 on 08/24/2002 09:38:02 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
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From what you said, it is perfectly exceptable for people to place stands and claim public land for themselves only. They have effectively done this in your case since you stated "When I see another hunter's stand, I look for a place elswhere" In theory, if i put up enough stands on 'X' amount of land, i could effective keep all people with your feelings off the property. This is not exceptable and it blows my mind that people feel it is. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Here is what I said: when hunting public land you need to be more considerate of other hunters. That means moving away from an area that someone else is hunting, just like when hunting private land where others also hunt. It's just called being considerate of another hunter's set-up and giving him/her some breathing room. If you do not want to do this, and want to claim that it's just as much your spot as it is the guy who put the stand up, well, go ahead, you have that right. However, you will spend a good portion of your hunting season in confrontations. If you really want to hunt that spot so badly, be prepared to accept the ramifications, which will be the type of experience you described earlier. In my opinion, the better course of action is to find a place elsewhere. Unless the public land you are hunting is less than 100 acres, it's unlikely that every spot is taken by a guy who "put up enough stands on 'X' amount of land,". <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Just because they spend some time and money to buy/make a stand and put it up, they have 1st rights to the area. This is not so. Your stand has now become public property for the public to do with as it sees fit. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> I don't understand how you can actually subscribe to this line of thinking. When you park your car in the public parking area, on public hunting land, does it become public property for the public to do with as they wish? Do you think we should expect other hunters to use our car to go to breakfast, or sit in to keep warm or dry, just because it is now on public land and they can do with our car as they wish? How about the comment about realizing the stand could be missing because it was left on public land. Do you think we should accept the fact that just because we park our cars in a public parking space, they are fair game to be stolen, or "now become public property for the public to do with as it sees fit" <img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle> Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 08/24/2002 09:04:12 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
I put up ladder and chain on stands in WMAs so do most other hunters in NJ If I am hunting a particular area I would like to think that other people are like me and just LEAVE when they encounter another hunter not pull the crap that it's WMA and I'll go were I want. Now I'm not greedy I only have 1 stand up at a time. I respect other hunters space as they should mine.
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RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Duckmastor try taking some vacation time during hunting season. You have the same basic complaints about waterfowling too. Believe it or not there are still places one can hunt ducks on the weekend without it being elbow to elbow ,but it takes some time to research and find them.
Still sounds like sour grapes to me IMHO. |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Like I said, I appreciate all you opinions. We can continue to create scenarios and sitiutaions that will support our views until the cows come home, but know ones going to change their mind.
There are 3 people in this forum who disagree with me and think marking a spot for yourself is exceptable. I posted this on the Bowhunting forum and last time I checked, there were 2 people that agreed with me. Add myself to those 2 and its 50/50. When I talked to people in the field, thats generally what I find as well. It right down the middle. Well guys, put up your permanent stands, lock them up and keep your fingers crossed. NJ will continue to be considerate and leave areas when he see stands go up no matter how long he may have scouted/hunted the area. Ruddy doesnt mind people squating in his blind when he's not around so he should be ok. Big wants people to leave his area when they see his stand. And then there's me, who will be out and about, doing what I can to keep areas open for ALL the hunting public to enjoy. Happy Hunting Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,, Duckmastor2 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
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And then there's me, who will be out and about, doing what I can to keep areas open for ALL the hunting public to enjoy. Happy Hunting Duckmastor2 <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Do you wear Superman underoos under your camo coveralls? I disagree with you that 50 percent of hunters think it's okay to set up on top of another hunters stand. However, assuming that you are right, your little "crusade" here is not for ALL the hunting public as you boast, because, by your own admission, half of the hunters out there don't agree with you. So basically, your 'cause' is pursued for the other 50 percent that think it is okay to disrespect all other hunters in the woods and set up wherever you like. Duck, wouldn't hunting season be more relaxing and enjoyable if you were hunting deer instead of hunting for confrontations? You are causing yourself alot of stress, and doing it for a purpose that isn't even an ethical one. Yes, I get upset when someone moves in a screws up the area I was set-up in. But continuing to hunt there is only going to be more frustrating, and possibly cause problems like the one you began this thread with. There are plenty of places out there that do not have stands in them, and offer good to great deer hunting. Put your energy into finding them, instead of fighting with other hunters who beat you to a spot. Just a good piece of advice, do with it what you want. Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 08/25/2002 09:53:21 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Even though permanant built stands are illegal in WMA, why waste your time arguing over the spot? Do some scouting, and move on! If you know the area well enough you sould be able to catch the deer earlier by moving in the direction they normally come from. I don't mean jumping in front of another guy 50yds. But if your bowhunting, a few hundred yards seems to be acceptable, at least in my book. Lets face it, things are getting tighter and tighter in NJ, we need to have a little more patience. Remember hunting is suppose to be fun!
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RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Too bads the days of respecting a fellow huntter are about gone in NJ. I can remember chaining a wooden ladder stand on a tree, and no one would bother it. Now everyone wants to beat you there in the morning. Shame. I think it has a lot to do with part time hunters and new comers to the sport, honestly. people don't look around, and only have a couple spots they even know how to drive to, and lose all sense of respect. If someone else is always parked in a certain area, and you know they usually hunt that piece of woods behind there, why bother them? I don't agree with building permanent stands either, but if a guy puts up a chain on, or ladder, only a real scumbag would hunt it. Duckmastor, if you liked the spot, you did the right thing, by not using those stands, but setting up nearby, because you hunted there for years. Nothing wrong with that, but you shouldn't be surprised when those fellas asked you to move on, no one wants somebody walking around under their stands opening day. I'd even hunt there again if I was you, you hunted there first, but don't be surprised if the other guys aren't as considerate and keeep getting angry. Up until a few years ago, only a real moron would build a stand on public land where they never hunted before, and had no idea if it was some other guy's spot for the past 10 years.
I look at it like this, first come first serve. If I'm parked in a certain area, and there's plenty of other areas to hunt, I'd be mighty pissed if someone came walking in on me at daylight. At the same time, if someone beats me there, I'll hunt somewhere else, it's public land after all. But all hunters should show a little respect, and if you know someone hunts a certain spot, don't crowd them, please. Just a little courtesy. "In heaven, even the fish have antlers" |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Glad I have 200 acres of private land!!!! <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
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RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
I am glad I have 68 acres but some good acres too boot. I just feel that we all should be a little more considerate of others too but I go along with no permanent stands on WMA's. So I guess I am with you. I also don't like permanent stands on public land do to damage of the trees. On private land no problem but public land no permanent stands for me either.
Brian. |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
While scouting this summer, I have come across some nice permanent stands on the wildlife area I hunt. I dont believe anyone hunts ths area but a couple people during early bow season, so I picked a couple spots close to them to use my climber. It pisses me off to see them, but if DIv of fish and wildlife will not enforce it, there is not much you can do except tear them down when no one is around, but I dont feel that is right. I know they will be hunted out of during gun season and i will set up someplace else. No biggie....I have a few stand sights picked out. Nowadays you dont know the people your dealin with. People have little regard for human life, they are extremely selfish. You took a big chance setting up around those stands on opening day. Its like you went out there like a Cock Bird with your chest stuck out there to "show them what they did was not right". Is it worth getting shot over?? Next time your out in the woods, ask yourself that question before you do anything questionable. Life is too short as it is dude.
AllenC |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Cooerpup, if it's the wma we were talking about, and hunting opening day, the stands were built by the state. The regs say you can't hunt out of a portable within 100yds of one if it's occupied. Just wanted you to know before some knucklehead messed up your morning. I have a spot about 75yds from one, and I'm hoping nobody hunts it. Most of the ones I saw are about 50-100yds from good spots anyway.
"In heaven, even the fish have antlers" |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Permanent stands, meaning those nailed to a tree are illegal on public lands in NJ. I think we can all agree that they have no place on WMA's. But what Duck is also campaigning against is portables stands that are left in the tree. For example, you scout an area throughly, find a good spot near a bedding area and place your stand, planning on coming back to hunt it later, after the area has settled down. That way you can slip into the stand without making too much of a disturbance. Duckmastor, and correct me if I'm wrong here Duck, is petitioning F & W to make that practice illegal. He wants no portable stands set up on public land. At least that is how I interpret this quote from your post.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> For those of you who hunt public Wildlife Management Areas (WMA) and plan on using permanent deer stands (IE: Ladders, hanging, tripods, stands built with wood, etc), I have just one suggestion, don't do it. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Sorry Duck, but I think you're out in left field here, and I'll bet most hunters will agree with me. I don't consider hang on stands, ladder stands or tripod stands permanent stands, they are portables. You are confusing the issue when you lump them in with boards nailed to a tree. What you are really complaining about is portable stands placed on public land. Edited by - NJ_bowhntr on 08/27/2002 08:03:14 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
First--permanent stands are forbidden on all WMA's so these guys are obviously clueless. I feel bad that 2 guys barged in on your spot but that is the risks of hunting public land. I pay a hefty price to hunt on private land and I assume others do the same.
If I were you, I would move to another spot and let these guys ruin it for themselves. You are probably better of somewhere else as it already seems way to crowded at the moment. Sad to say but hunting in Jersey is like goign to the mall on Saturday before Xmas! Looking at the world from 15 feet up. |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
To clarify, the wma I mentioned in my last post isn't in NJ.
A quick question, I agree that portable stands can be left up ethically, but do you guys agree that if some guy comes in and beats you there, setting up unknowingly 50yds away, you should hunt somewhere else that day? Or are you still saying that gives you claim to an area? I'm just curious, because if I hang a portable stand, it's not where anybody's gonna see it, and somebody may have seen the same deer, sign, ect, and if they get there earlier than me, I'm not gonna walk in on them. I'm just asking because I always hear horror stories about people coming in and setting up 50yds from you, knowing you are there(not somethingg I'd tolerate). Do you guys show people that same respect, and hunt somewhere else if someone is in the area? I plan on hunting a wma in mercer county for the first time on 9/7, and I'm wondering how much headache I'll have. I'll be there extemely early, and in my climber back in the middle of the woods. No permanent stands I can see, btu I don't go beating around the woods the few weeks before the season, so someone may have put a hang-on up. If I'm setup long before daylight, and some guy comes in 1/2hr before light and starts climbing in a hang-on 50yds from me, I'm gonna be pissed, and neither of us are gonna have a hunt that morning. I would like to think I'm not alone in that thinking, but some of the stuff I hear leads me to believe everyone thinks differently. If I'm hunting a certain stand already up, I'm gonna have my climber as backup, or another spot in mind, I'm not going to ruins someone's setup. "In heaven, even the fish have antlers" |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Hey Guys. I posted this in the Bowhunting Forum as well. The discussion got pretty heated there. I dont consider stands "portable" if someone puts one up in August and takes it home in February. Thats just how I feel. It that puts me "out in left field" or makes me "clueless" Fine.
Here are some excerpts (sp) of 2 of my responses in the other Forum. Keep the opinions comming. I like reading them. But I think after you read below, you'll understand that I have nothing else to say about this (this should cover my opinion). Good Luck in the upcomming season. Posted 8/25: "I guess its partially my fault you got the wrong idea. Paragraph 5 makes it sound like I walked in to the area 1 week before the season. This wasnt the case. I was in there about 3 weeks, once a week, glassing and looking around before the stands went up. I didnt walk in, see the stands, and say "man this a good spot" and snuck in on opening day. What would you suggest bud? Should I have put an sign in the spot I prepared to hunt on the ground stating "Duckmastor2 plans to hunt this spot if the winds right opening day. Everyone else stay away and dont put up any stands". I wouldnt even think of such a thing. Thats the whole F'n point man. 1st come 1st served. Just because 2 guys put up stands doesnt claim an area. When they saw my flashlight, they should have respected the fact i was there and went elsewhere. Thats what I do. If someone's there first, god bless them and I hope they get a good one. That is common decency pal. Threatening me and throwing me out was wrong." Posted 8/26: "Probably the same thing that happened to you when you read my "or they may not be there at all". You automatically assumed I was a thief or condoned that activity. I certainly do not. What I meant was that as more and more people use the public land to hunt, you have a much greater chance of running into fine people "insert sarcasm here" like you did the morning your stand was in the process of being removed. People do take the public land attitude that far. Its not right, but they do. Also, there is a good chance that people will sit in your stand and if they do, you really cant do anything legally about it. Below is a copy of an email I received in response to a letter I sent to Fish and Game back in early October 2001 on this issue. Its from Paul Tarlowe. The WMAs mentioned have been removed for my safety sake... Kidding :) "X and Y WMAs are not among the 12 WMAs where permanent waterfowl blinds or deer stands are prohibited. On areas where they are permitted they could, theoretically, be used by whoever got to them first. I will pass your correspondence along to our Land Management and Law Enforcment offices for review. The best forum to express your views would be to the Director and Fish and Game Council when the proposed Game Code for next year is announced and public comment welcomed." Although I dont think its right, "squawter rights" are supported by fish and game. IMO I think it would just make things so much nicer for everyone if 'carry in and carry out' stands were the only legal type on public land. The only thing you have to worry about is people beating you to the spot you planned to hunt, which I think would be less likely without visable stands in trees. You wouldnt have to worry about your hard earned money (stands) disappearing into the night or being destroyed by people who dont respect others. I may be wrong, but we won't know until we try. It obvious there are strong feelings on both sides of the issue. Look at what we've done to each other here? We've called each other names and threatened each other. I can only imagine what people in other states think of us. I will continue to send letters, emails and talk to as many people as I can to change the law. Right now, the permanent stands are legal. People like me who are against this, must respect it. Leave them be! People who hang them must except the fact that even though its legal to put them up, its 1st come 1st served, anyone can sit in them, people might sit on the ground close to them and you are taking a much bigger risk of them disappearing than you would on private land. By the way SJ, if that guy shot an arrow at you, I would think 20 years for attempted murder would have been more appropriate. Good luck to all this season! Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,, Duckmastor2 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
9/2 was opening day for Resident canada geese in NJ. Here is a post from a NJ Waterfowl chat board similar to this one. I've edited for language and length. If this is whats going on over a couple of wooden posts, imagine blinds!!! I predict someone will get assualted this year if not killed. Make permanent structures illegal now boys! Before its too late.
Here it is: Get to the ramp and launch at 5:09. 10 minute boat ride and decoys set by about 5:35. Sitting around waiting for legal and enjoying the cool breeze of off the water. Well along comes a LIME GREEN boat with two gentlemen in it at 5 minutes to legal. Pull alongside the decoys and shine a light to see whats up. We figure they would just turn and go. Nope they beach there boat and come walking over. First words from them are "You must be f'ing kidding us, this is our blind" or something like that. Sean greets them with this is public land and says "hey yooz guys are more than welcome to put your birds out and sit with us but we aint leaving. " They are trying to claim this "blind" as theirs. It was 3 4x4 in the mud. ANayway the sh*t is flying back and forth and Sean removes his coat and they got to gettin scared. "Cmon that ain't smart" they said(Sean thought they said he wasn't smart). Then we asked them to join us again because the birds began flying and they claimed we would not shoot any birds while they were there. The Mofo's stood out in front of the blind and waved a Flashlight around and started saying they were not hunting but would be fishing. Jode the coolest head prevailing walked over to his boat got his cell and called the warden to report their hull number. Ol' Slyfox thought he'd be smart and take the boat out a little so we couldn't see his hull number. F him, we already had it. Don't you know the pr*cks anchor their boat right in the middle of our decoys. Everytime a goose flew over they stood and waived their arms. Alls long Jode is waiting to hear back from the man and he drops his phone in the water. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZ it shorts out. I have to get in my boat run back to the ramp and get my phone to call warden to give new phone number. They finally call us back and I explain to the Lt. what the situation is. His words "WHAT A**HOLES". He tells me to ask them their intentions and to inform them they are breaking the law any more problems call him back. We do so and are basically told that this is their spot and they ain't leaving. SO we call the warden back and he said he wanted to speak to them. We motor out there and give him the phone. it was like a 3 year old being reprimanded.... Went something like this "Well ah...but....but it ain't right....but ....well we...but well I ain't gonna argue with you.. It's supposed to be hunters for hunters and what they are doing is wrong its our blind (keep in mind the blind was 3 poles in the ground and half rotted I might add)....well how much is the fine if we dont leave?" This is wrong. Gives me back the phone and I said offer still stands if you want to hunt with us. They said they ain't leaving and the fine is only $100 for hunter harrassment. SO be it. Warden told us to call em back if they don't leave and about 5-10 minuites later they finally left. Long post but it really made for a long morning. No Geese were taken. Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,, Duckmastor2 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
that is very very sad indeed. I hope I never run into people like that. But it goes to show you, you never know what you might run into. I just hope things work out and they get theirs in the end.
Brian |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
This is a serious subject and I hope you all will help with my questions - I'm interested in squirrel hunting and see the season overlaps with the bowhunters who are after deer. - First: my intentions (not intended as guidelines for others); (1) Move quietly and slowly through the WMA, pausing only a few minutes to look for the squirrels before moving on. - (2) If I can see the bowhunter, or they spot me and speak, try to plot a course around their setup and maintain - let's say 80 yard seperation? - (3) If subjected to hostility, just plain leave rather that fuel the flames. - (4) Assign higher priority to being non-confronting and to safety than I do to taking game or claiming the right to use the WMA. - (5) If Jersey proves just plain unhuntable due to overcrowding, consider vacations in other states for hunting. - (6) Possibly use my Amateur Radio privleges to construct and carry a very small but long range wireless camera to tape my hunts (plans available in the ARRL publications) (legality to be determined).
My questions; (1) Hypothetical situation: If confronted with a whole string of stands and hunters effectivly creating a barrier is it correct to speak and ask permission to walk through, or do I just give up on that WMA for that day? - (2) NJ Bowhunters: What are your experiences and opinions of the small game hunters that share part of your season? - (3) Anyone: Suggestions for other states welcoming new hunters on public lands? especially states where hunters are more likely to get along? - (4) Any other ideas or critique of my attempt to form a safe and sane hunting policy? In closing: I'm fairly sure I don't have to remind you all that the anti-hunting crowd is on the rise here in NJ and they are probably reading our posts on these boards. Food for thought. See ya all out there! BB |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Nothing wrong with asking its how we communicate or atleast civilized persons communicate.
question 2. I don't mind small game hunters at all as they kind of put a drive on and move the deer around. If it bothers me too much I will get out of the stand and go home for the day. YOU have just as much right to be there hunting as I do and I will always respect that. To do otherwise would be down right wrong. Brian |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Ducky,
I am an advocate of "chain-on" tree stands. They are not permanent. I hunt mostly in PA on State Game Lands. I have seven chain on stands that I put out sometime in late September and take down before gun season. I also have a climber I use in areas where I do not want to place a "chain-on". I take a week off every year in November and hunt a different stand every day. I have never had any problems with people around my stands. I have these seven spread out over a 14,000 acre tract. What would be the difference if the two guys in your story had what you call "permanent" tree stands or "non-permanent" climbers. They would have still given you a hard time about being in "their spot". The problem is not with the tree stands. If someone is hunting near one of my "permanent" stands. I just move off to another spot and repeat the process until I am satisfied. Gar Just Say No to Crossbows! |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Gar,
There are no trees on this particular track of land. If they would have come by and with ground stools like I had and thrown me out, I might have reacted differently. I probably should have called the cops either way, but it would have been their word vs mine. I've never had anyone give me a hard time about beating them to a spot if we were all hunting from the ground. Get within 100 yds of a stand or blind though and all hell breaks loose. Its not right. 1st come 1st served. Take In, Take Out rigs only. When someone gets hurt or worse, maybe NJF&G will do something about it (Before anyone says anything, NO I AM NOT SAYING SOMEONE SHOULD HURT ANYONE) Until then, they'll sit on their hands. I used to think the way Delaware runs their game lands was crazy, but the more and more I think about it, it may be the way too go. And thats a sad thing to say. Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,, Duckmastor2 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
All any Game Dept has to spell out in regulations is first come first served on public lands period. From what I've seen it's more an attitude than a stand problem. The problem is more impolite and inconsiderate hunters more than stands/blinds. Permanant or portable thier are alway those who'll steal, destroy ,etc.
Be there first , I was always in my blinds by 4 or so set up by 4:45 and made a pot of coffee and a egg sammy and enjoyed listening to birds flying by in the dark with my dog. Same for deer. Pick a spot that breakes up your outline good and odds are most hunters won't even know you're there unless you smoke or something. Everyone needs to get a life or start hunting the Adirondacks or out west. |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Bob,
WMA's are for everyone to enjoy whatever legal activity one wishes to pursue. You have every right to tree rat hunt while they are in season on WMAs. That being said, here's my advice. Since you enjoy the stalk method, becareful if you decide to hunt 9/28. You'll be wearing hunter orange, which should keep you very visable. But caution is advisable. I made the mistake of trying to hunt a WMA last year opening day for bow. I was set up early (1:30pm on the ground) for an afternoon hunt. I had 4 people stalk right up on me. They were all curtious, but it was very crowded and I was well off the beatin path. I wont be there this year. Like I said, since you are wearing orange, the bow hunters should see you 1st and let you know they are there. Since they beat you to the area, it would be curtious to loop around them as far as possible and if you cant put a good 100 yds between you, dont encroach. Thats what I used to do. If a hunter beat me to an area, I moved on quickly. If there are enough bow hunters that you can see in stands, spread out to cover an entire area, they are making a statement. Whether its right or wrong, I wouldnt approach them. A deer isnt worth that, let alone a squirrel. Just my opinion. I wonder if that happened, would they be in climbers or permanent stands??? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Just be safe and good luck. Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,, Duckmastor2 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Thanks To all who responded! Yup, I'll be glowing like a well polished pumpkin with all the "blaze orange". I sure hope we can save this sporting activity in this state (NJ).
I may additionally try bad weather days and very cold days, maybe some of the less dedicated will stay by the fire while I attempt to harvest a few tree rats. I will post my observations and experiences as I gather them, including notes on the tree stands and hunter behavior in general. Maybe start a new topic too where I can post about what it's like to be a beginner in this activity. Until then...May your game bag always be full! BB |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
My old man was scouting up some new land the state just bought this year. Checking out some good areas with ground cover. On his way out he ran into a mother and son with a hang on and ladder. He asked how they were doing and they said, "Fine, just going out to claim our spot" Typical "This land is MY land, this lands NOT your land" mentality. I wish I would have been there,,,,,,
Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,, Duckmastor2 Edited by - Duckmastor2 on 09/23/2002 17:56:18 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
My old man was scouting up some new land the state just bought this year. Checking out some good areas with ground cover. On his way out he ran into a mother and son with a hang on and ladder. He asked how they were doing and they said, "Fine, just going out to claim our spot" Typical "This land is MY land, this lands NOT your land" mentality. I wish I would have been there,,,,,, Duckmastor2 <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Duck, you are looking at this all wrong. I would think it's pretty great to see women and children getting involved in hunting. Why not give them some space to enjoy their hunt. Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 09/23/2002 18:48:38 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
The fact that he told me it was a mother and son made me excited at first, until I was told what they said. I dont know how old the son was, I'm hoping young. I have this vision of a young excited pre teen getting ready for the bow season opener. I just dont approve of the possible territorial aspect being taught. Like I said, I wish i was there. Not just to voice my opinion, but to hear the 'way' it was said and the attitude. I will get a clarification.
I have tickets for multiple DU Dinners in the upcomming weeks. I plan on shaking hands with as many Fish and Game people as possible and promoting carry in, carry out only stands and blinds. We'll see what happens. Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,, Duckmastor2 Edited by - Duckmastor2 on 09/23/2002 21:56:27 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
Thats okay Duck, I'll go right behind you and tell them how much I support the current system. Many of those guy's are old buds of mine anyway.
I really don't understand what your problem is with this. If you want to carry out your stand each time, go right ahead, but trying to force your way of hunting on everyone else is a pretty selfish way to approach it. Right now, hunters have a choice of which method they choose to hunt. No one is telling you that you can't hunt how you prefer, so why do you feel you should be able to dictate how everyone else hunts? Maybe you should spend more time scouting for areas without stands, and less time complaining about where the stands already are. Just a bit of advice, do with it what you will, but I'll assure you that your enjoyment of the hunting season will skyrocket when you worry less about what others are doing and concentrate more on what you should be doing. Personally, I think it's is advantageous to leave stands in the woods. Not only because you can hunt an area without making a big disturbance setting up, but also because you already know where others are hunting and how to avoid them. One more thing Duck; I DO think F & W have heard you. It seems that after hearing complaints such as yours, they have added a section on " A Hunters Responsibilities" to the Digest. I guess they worry that there may be a few other hunters out there like you because they felt a need to remind you that..... "Responsible hunters show consideration for their companions and avoid doing anything that will interfere with another's hunt", and "When hunting public lands, responsible hunters show the same respect for other users and their possessions as they show for land owners on private land". These are quotes from page 74 of the hunting edition of the Digest. They are in the context of stands and hunting set-ups on public land. From your earlier post, we find this,... <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Just because they spend some time and money to buy/make a stand and put it up, they have 1st rights to the area. This is not so. Your stand has now become public property for the public to do with as it sees fit. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> AND <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> be willing to except the fact that someone could be sitting in your stand or your stand might not be there at all <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Obviously, F & W consider stands placed on public lands to be the possessions of the hunters who place them there, and a responsible hunter would respect that and not interfere, not behave as your quote suggests. The choice is yours Duck......are you going to be a responsible hunter, or are you going to continue to be someone who interferes with another hunter's set-up or personal possessions? Good luck, and remember, hunt for deer, not confrontations. Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 09/24/2002 15:08:51 |
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RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
For confirmation, my father said the kid with the mom was about 16 and did state he was "claiming his spot for saturday" Nice. I hope someone is sitting in his stand opening morning, because if you remember, Paul Tarlowe NJDF&G stated to me "On areas where they are permitted they could, theoretically, be used by whoever got to them first." Then they can get into a fight about it, maybe sling arrows at each other. Wake up boys. Its not worth it. Carry in, Carry out.
If it were up to me, which I know you all are happy it isnt, any stand left on public land more than 1 day would be considered illegal and confiscated by Fish and Game. They could sell them at an auction with all other contraband and put the money into the Fish and Game coffers. Any stands that didnt sell would be chopped up into little pieces. Have fun opening day! Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,, Duckmastor2 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
For confirmation, my father said the kid with the mom was about 16 and did state he was "claiming his spot for saturday" Nice. I hope someone is sitting in his stand opening morning, because if you remember, Paul Tarlowe NJDF&G stated to me "On areas where they are permitted they could, theoretically, be used by whoever got to them first." Then they can get into a fight about it, maybe sling arrows at each other. Wake up boys. Its not worth it. Carry in, Carry out. If it were up to me, which I know you all are happy it isnt, any stand left on public land more than 1 day would be considered illegal and confiscated by Fish and Game. They could sell them at an auction with all other contraband and put the money into the Fish and Game coffers. Any stands that didnt sell would be chopped up into little pieces. Have fun opening day! Duckmastor2 <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Now Duck, don't get your feathers all ruffled <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>. Maybe someone from F & W told you that in theory, someone else could use that stand, but it seems they are taking the official position, by printing it in the Digest, that this is NOT what a RESPONSIBLE hunter would do. This is the third quote from that section of the Digest...."There are certain do's and don'ts that all hunters must consider with respect to their manners in the field. Remember, in most cases, courtesy and sportsmanship are related to safety". It is clear that you are making their point, especially when you talk about hoping someone is sitting in their stand and they start flinging arrows at each other. Go to page 74 in the Digest. It specifically addresses this subject, and basically tells you that a responsible and courteous sportsman will respect other hunters' possessions and stand set-ups on public land, and not do anything to interfere with another hunter. How old are you Duck? Don't take that as a demeaning comment either, I am just curious. Hunt for deer, not trouble. Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 09/26/2002 05:57:10 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
One thing that's missed here, and could cause a problem for the young sportsmen in question. I know my father warned me about it at a young age, and I certainly experienced it over the years, especially in crowded NJ. Say the poor kid gets to walking in to his stand opening morning, and some guy is set up in a portable 75yds away. He's gonna have to turn around and hunt another spot if he follows the ethics most of us were shown. Does he have one? Does he know this? I assume the mom doesn't hunt, who has shown it to him? I know the other guy will most certainly ruin his morning if he flashes his light at him, and he continues towards the guy, and climbs up. I know myself, not knowing it was a kid, would get down and confront him, at the very least letting the person know how I felt about that practice. On NJ public land, this is quite possible, especially in the close to the road spots that the kid and mother probably picked. Not to mention the possibility of the stand getting stolen, which I doubt they are adequately aware of. Could leave a sour taste in the young man's mouth, no doubt.
I think the right thing to do here is welcome the young man and his mom into the sport, and perhaps offer a little guidance, at least let them know of the possibilities mentioned above. NJ bowhunters aren't the most skilled or courtious, IMO(don't get mad, I'm from NJ myself), and a lot of them wait until the day or so before the season to walk the woods down looking for "fresh sign", and many, I hate to say, would be happy to steal a stand. All in all, the scenario described has a lot of potential, unfortunately, to put a damper on a kid's opening dday. Maybe if you see the kid again, ask how he did, offer encouragement, and maybe a little advice, if he seems open to it. Not everyone has the knowledge to have a backup stand or two, or to put them way back in where nobody goes, or even knows what level of courtesy is expected amongst hunters. Unfortunately, hanging one stand with the idea of "claiming" a spot has a possibility of the kid taking a lot of abuse opening morning. "In heaven, even the fish have antlers" |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
That is a good point 6pt., and I think it's exactly why F & W put the section in the digest about being courteous and showing respect for other hunters' set-ups. In your example of 75 yards, I would say that could be an acceptable distance from another stand, depending on the circumstances. In early season where the cover is very thick, 75 yards is a long ways in the woods. I personally think 100 yards minimum is best, but 75 yards away would not cause nearly the trouble that sitting in someone elses stand (like Duck has talked about) would. Your example is also why I hang several stands on public land; so I can move to a back-up spot when someone else inconsiderately, or unknowingly, moves in on me.
The best message here is to steer clear of other hunters' stands, it will make everyones day afield more enjoyable. It's the responsible thing to do as well. Edited by - NJ_Bowhntr on 09/26/2002 09:00:37 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
NJ, I'm 32.
I keep hearing you say I should hunt for deer and not trouble. Voicing my opinion about this issue on this board and to every hunter and Fish and Game official I can is about the extent of the trouble I cause. Even though I own hang on and ladder stands, I don't place them on Public land. I just use climbers and ground hunt. I also don't sit in other people's stands, steal or destroy stands and if someone beats me out to an area I go someplace else or home if the wind is not in my favor. I also don't take to the field unless I've scouted an area and know where I'm going. Nothing more annoying than having someone stumbling around in the field or woods looking for a spot during the season. I think people who hang stands for longer than a day are the ones looking for trouble. I'm telling you something though, this year once I scout out places and find good spots, I'm hunting there. If someone hangs a stand in that area afterwards, too bad. If they beat me out there, fine, I'll move on, but if not, I'm hunting that spot. If the person who hangs the stand gets there after me and gives me a hard time, I'm staying put, hopping on the cell phone and calling Fish and Game or police, whichever the situation dictates. I'm not being muscled out of a public area again. I did read the wildlife digest. I saw the States attempt to teach hunters common courtesy. It's well intentioned and might work on new hunters, but do you honestly think people who've been acting like jerks for the past 20 years are going to change after reading a few paragraphs in a magazine? Give me a break. When it comes to stands and blinds, the only thing that will change behavior is a change in the law. Someone cant squat in your stand, steal it, wreck it, or fight with you over it if its not there. NJ, I will never subscribe to your opinion (as you wont mine) that once someone hangs a stand in an area, others should be 'considerate' and move on. Placing stands on public land in an attempt to monopolize an area is wrong, period. It's legal for you to do, so go right ahead. Just be prepared for people sitting in it. I would never do that, but others will and the have the State on their side. If you go Saturday good luck or continued luck to you if you've been hunting zones that opened the 7th. Any day spent huntin, is better than any day spent workin,, Duckmastor2 |
RE: Permanent Stands on NJ's WMA's
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> If you go Saturday good luck or continued luck to you if you've been hunting zones that opened the 7th. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> I hunt public land in zones 27, 28 & 29, so I will be starting Saturday. Looks like we will have good weather. Shoot straight. |
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